500 magnum revolver as a ccw gun

Strange how the crowd here has changed over the years. Oh well.

A number of people here have toted X Frame revolvers, generally the .500s with reduced loads.

I don't have one myself, I'm told that with a reduced load, recoil is no worse than a decently powered .44 Mag round out of a 4" Model 629/29. I've carried one of those. Carried a Model 58 for a time too. Lots of guys on here have carried full size steel 1911s, N frames, etc.

The general reason behind carrying a relatively large and powerful revolver is when someone is worried about animals as well as people.

Someone will google the question and I don't see why it doesn't deserve a real answer, regardless of the OP's intent.
 
Strange how the crowd here has changed over the years. Oh well.

A number of people here have toted X Frame revolvers, generally the .500s with reduced loads.

I don't have one myself, I'm told that with a reduced load, recoil is no worse than a decently powered .44 Mag round out of a 4" Model 629/29. I've carried one of those. Carried a Model 58 for a time too. Lots of guys on here have carried full size steel 1911s, N frames, etc.

The general reason behind carrying a relatively large and powerful revolver is when someone is worried about animals as well as people.

Someone will google the question and I don't see why it doesn't deserve a real answer, regardless of the OP's intent.

The first rational and well considered answer I've seen on this thread..... Great post, Gator Farmer!

I've gotta ask how many of these opinionated posters have owned a 500 or have even shot one? If many of you actually considered the minimal weight difference in a 4" N frame and a 4" X frame it might just enlighten you. Anyone who has shot a "heavy" 500 realizes how beautifully controllable it can be, and with light to moderate loads, how unmatched it could be as a very potent self defense weapon and caliber.

The idea everyone would use only hot factory ammo in a 500 negates the realization most would use lighter loaded ammo in the 900 to 1100 fps range, just like most users of other magnum calibers do.

I remember much the same arguments directed at 41 and 44 Mags when they were first developed. Those calibers have certainly proved their usefulness and worth many times over through the years in spite of the unfounded criticisms.

Yea, they're big.... too big for daily carry for many people. But if I had a good idea I was headed into a firefight give me a 500 even with their limited shot capacity. I'd take my chances on making one of the five count even if I had to shoot through brick walls, automobiles, or use it to disable engine blocks....

I own and shoot many of the pistol mentioned on this thread. I carried a 6" 57 as a duty gun for many years. I've hunted big game very successfully for over 30 years (large bull elk and bear) with 41 and 44 N frames. I'm now using a 6.5" 500. I would invite everyone to research the development of the 1911 and why it was created before making a judgment about "adequate man-stoppers" or "too much" stopping power.... Any LEO who has actually faced a PCP hyped adversary will understand what I mean...

JMHO.....
 
That does it; I'm sold now! A .500 it shall be; the only "rational" choice for SD.

That is, until they come out with a .600 or a .700 or a 25mm and somebody makes the same argument.
 
That does it; I'm sold now! A .500 it shall be; the only "rational" choice for SD.

That is, until they come out with a .600 or a .700 or a 25mm and somebody makes the same argument.

No one said that it was the only rational choice. But it can be a perfectly valid one, same as a great many others. Depends on the person.

Most people carry rifles if possible if they go in harm's way. When that isn't possible, they compromise and pick one sort or another of handgun.

And for reference, see the "howdah".
 
That does it; I'm sold now! A .500 it shall be; the only "rational" choice for SD.

That is, until they come out with a .600 or a .700 or a 25mm and somebody makes the same argument.

I'm glad you've finally seen the light......:cool:
 
The S&W 500 can easily be carried as a CCW, although there are some drawbacks (as with any other weapon choice). In my experience, the only reasonable way to carry one (especially for an extended period) is in a properly fitted shoulder holster, as it greatly reduces the effect of the weapon's weight, and does not result in pulling your pants down (yes, it is a heavy gun). I carried a 6.5" Model 29 in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster (concealed) for many years, and was never "made." Shortly after I purchased my 8 3/8" barreled 500, I noticed that it actually had better concealment potential than did my old 29, as the grips have a lot less bulk. In fact, I did a mock-up shoulder holster for it, and that massive gun effectively disappears under a light jacket, or even beneath a shirt. One of these days, I'll probably get around to making that shoulder holster, as it would be a much better method of carry than the belt holster, whether it be concealed or out in the woods. A couple of months ago, the guys at my favorited gun shop talked me into buying a 4" 500 in addition, that gun would conceal just as well, again, in a shoulder holster. IWB or other belt carry would just not be practical, IMHO. Although the gun could be concealed quite well, if using the right equipment, there are other considerations which may limit its utility as a CCW. First, there is the potential problem of appearing to be a "mad dog killer" in court if you actually need to use it. There was a case here in Arizona a couple of years ago which culminated in a man being found guilty of a crime, rather than a justified shooting (which it was) because he was portrayed in court by an anti-gun DA in such a way because he was carrying a semi-auto in that horrible, greatly over-powered 10mm cartridge - the horror of it all! Frankly, although I believe in carrying the biggest caliber you can use effectively for defensive purposes, the .500 Mag may result in an invitation to an anti-gun DA to go after you on a similar basis. Seccond, there is also a high risk of over-penetration and the possibility of causing significant down-range damage to property or persons - a 440 grain bullet traveling at 1500-1600 fps is not going to be stopped by almost any human body, and will exit the other side at a pretty high rate of speed, ready to do more damage. Same thing for a 325 grain JSP which left the muzzle at 1877 fps. third item is controllability - although I have never been recoil sensitive, these things definitely let you know you fired them! The 4" has noticeably more recoil than the 8 3/8" version, as well. The potential for rapid, well-aimed follow up shots, or the ability to rapidly engage additional targets, is not as good as guns of most smaller calibers. Another consideration is the 5 shot cylinder of the 500. While this is not, necessarily, a huge disadvantage, reloads are not very fast, and, to my knowledge, there is only one firm which makes speed loaders for them (custom machined of steel or aluminum, and rather expensive). Concealing a speed loader for a 500 may also prove to be another challenge. While I often carry one of my 500's when out in the wild (which can be only a few hundred yards from my house), especially since we have a pretty healthy bear population up here in the White Mountains, and a lot of bears that don't fear humans, I generally don't consider either of the 500s very practical for CCW as a defensive weapon in most "civilized" scenarios, for the foregoing reasons. Oh yeah, one other thing - although I mocked up a shoulder rig (vertical) for the 500, if i decide to make one, I have been considering setting it up with an additional off-side holster which could carry my Mossberg 500 with an 18" barrel (have to install the pistol grip instead of the "standard" wood buttstock I normally have on it). Now that would be a lot of firepower for a CCW rig!
 
This might be hi-jacking the intent of this thread, but I think it deserves an answer. I was a civilian LEO before I went into the military and was trained that I was responsible for every bullet that left my gun. Luckily, in my career as a LEO, I never had to shoot, although I had it in my hand and was prepared to do so on a number of occassions.
When I went into the military, I was always the guy that had left over rounds at the end of an exercise or mission, because I had been trained (very well I might add) to always identify my target before engaging, no "spray and pray."
As as staff/instructor navigator on B-52s, I always taught crews that they had to positively identify the target before they could drop; close enough didn't count.
Based on my experiences, I disagree strongly with the above post. Engage the target, evaluate the reaction, and either cease, or engage again. Shooting extra rounds opens up a world of explaining where you would never want to be. It could be twisted to make it look like you enjoy killing.
If all of this is an academic discussion for a zombie novel, no harm-no foul. But it's not that way in the real world.

This is a great response and filled with some great information and experience. I will make a few points though.

There's no inbetween in the event we unfortunately have to use our firearms to protect ourselves. You either have the right to kill the attacker or you don't.

When I say "liberal" with shots on attacker, I don't mean stand over the body and empty the magazine like in a crappy revenge movie. Since you were an officer and in the military, I'm sure you have seen this, but the human body is not as fragile as one would think. Couple this with the fact that almost all handgun rounds are underpowered when facing the human body, the "one shot, one kill" is really nothing more than a myth without nothing short of perfect shot placement.

Consider that we have no right to engage unless we expect immediate bodily harm. This translates often to "the attacker has a gun". I don't find it wise to shoot an attacker with a gun once and roll the dice that the threat is neutralized. Also look at instances in which the police unfortunately have to engage a suspect with gunfire. It is not uncommon for the officers to expend their full magazines and only result in a hit or two. Adrenaline plays a huge part in this.

I agree that you should engage the target, cease, and engage again if needed. If we were talking rifles, one shot may be plenty for engagement. If we were talking over a distance, it may apply also. If someone busts into your house with a Glock in their hand, I would stronlgy recommend firing a controlled group of 2-4 shots at center mass. You will find most self defense trainers, law enforcement, and military teach this too when talking about sidearms.

As far as caliber, I still think it is much less important than shot placement. Using the example of said Bad Guy with Glock, a .500SW isn't going to necesarily stop him if you hit, say, his support arm. It will do a lot of damage, but the Bad Guy could still fire upon you. Training and shot placement are the two most important things. As soon as more than one threat engages you, the value of capacity becomes apparent. I would much rather face Joe Schmoe Thug who has a .45acp than Larry Vickers with a .22lr. There is a reason our police chose to trade in their wheelguns for autoloaders. Are revolvers inadequate for self defense? Not at all. I carry a revolver from time to time and feel plenty comfortable with it. I just feel for self defense purposes, especially for untrained individuals, a high capacity autoloader is invaluable.

Nobody has to agree with me, but I hope you keep my training experiences in your mind, get some quality training, and decide ahead of time what you will do in the event the worst day of your life ever occurs. If you and the Bad Guy can walk away alive, that is ideal. I believe its better to put my own safety first and then worry about the criminal.

Safearm made on the most important statements here, and one that I forgot to mention. IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET FIRST!!!

Again, this is my $0.02. I strongly suggest getting your own training to better respond in the terrible circumstance you have to exercise the right to defend yourself.

Steve
Personal Security SystemsSupport our Troops, LEOs, and Responsible Gun Owners!
 
PersonalSecurity: You have the "right to kill the attacker" in Michigan?

Though not conversant with Michigan state law I doubt that is expressed as part of applicable law(s.)

If I may, I suggest you use the words "right to stop the attacker."

Feel free to disregard this, if you choose.

Be safe.
 
Update:

I just checked the Michigan statute that the poster was apparently referencing.

It does state that a person has the "right to use deadly force." That is subject to certain conditions and contains limitations, of course. (It is the Castle Doctrine, basically.)

However, "kill the attacker" is not the same as "use deadly force" in my humble opinion. In fact, I suspect one would be in serious difficulty in Michigan...as with most any jurisdiction...if an attacker fled after being the object of deadly force and the "good guy" chopped off his head with an axe after catching him. Yes, the use of the axe is a extreme; I submit you would be in trouble with the law if you shot him then.

Be safe.
 
My mod 360 is much more difficult to control than my 500 mag with full loads. I have been considering replacing the 357 with the 500 for daily carry but I'm having a hard time finding a good ankle holster for it!
 
PersonalSecurity: You have the "right to kill the attacker" in Michigan?

Though not conversant with Michigan state law I doubt that is expressed as part of applicable law(s.)

If I may, I suggest you use the words "right to stop the attacker."

Feel free to disregard this, if you choose.

Be safe.


No, you are absolutely correct. I used bad wording on that, and I apologize. What I mean is that as armed citizens, we either have the right to use deadly force or we don't. There is no gray area. You will hear people talk about the police's use of force and say "why don't they just shoot to injure? just aim for the knees or something?" What they don't realize is that for an officer, or armed citizen, to use their gun, they must have the right to stop the attacker by deadly force.

There is no right to pull the gun and threaten. There is no right to injure someone. If these two things stop the situation from escalating, then thats great for everybody. But remember, the only time your gun can leave your holster is if you have the right to potentialy take the attackers life in self defense. It doesn't mean that it has to end this way, but you must be in a position in which you feel deadly force is the only solution to prevent great bodily harm upon yourself.

I do agree, I should have worded it better, but the meaning is the same. If someone does think that there is a right to intimidate with a gun to stop a potential situation or the right to injure before a fear of great bodily harm arises, they will most likely find themselves on the wrong side of a set of bars.

This is an important thing to know as a CCW/armed citizen. It is also to check your state law - particularly the Castle Doctrine (or lack thereof).

Also, if anyone takes my posts as being the type of person who is quick on the trigger or encourages killing someone, that is the exact opposite of the type of person I am. I would do everything in my power to prevent a situation from reaching the level that requires the application of deadly force. If I knew I was in immediate risk of death or great bodily harm to myself or a loved one, I would unfortunately have to defend myself. It is our responsibility as gun owners to know the laws and consider our firearms the last resort between us and death.

Again, i'm not trying to make anyone mad and I am trying to give good advice for those who concealed carry. If you disagree with me, by all means check your state laws. There is a suprising amount of difference between state to state. If I am wrong on something, please let me know. I've been wrong a time or two, but self defense and the law are kind of in my lane in life. And hopefully none of us are ever put in these situations.

Steve
Personal Security Systems
Support our Troops, LEOs, and Responsible Gun Owners
 
You'll get tired of carrying all that weight really fast.
Ammo is too expensive for a sufficient amount of practice shooting.
 
...if an attacker fled after being the object of deadly force and the "good guy" chopped off his head with an axe after catching him. Yes, the use of the axe is a extreme; I submit you would be in trouble with the law if you shot him then.
.

If you lopped off his head with the axe TO catch him, or to prevent him from fleeing again, that would be quite legal in Michigan. Fleeing felons are still considered fair game, affirmed by the State Supreme Court into modern times. It's a rough place Michigan is.

In Michigan, coercion is also an allowed defense to murder. In most states, it is not.
(Source - Used to live in Lansing. Two years of law school.)
 
As soon as I can find a holster, I'm using this for concealed carry. Follow-up shots might be a bit difficult but a properly placed first shot will most likely do the job.
 

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Consider that we have no right to engage unless we expect immediate bodily harm. . . .

I agree that you should engage the target, cease, and engage again if needed.

I don't understand this. If you are hypothesing a mortal attack on yourself, why would you cease before the threat is obviously disabled, like maybe on the floor with the gun out of his hand and no other unfriendly participants? It seems to me that engaging and ceasing before the threat is obviously disabled is inviting getting shot. It doesn't take much to pull a trigger.

Could you explain where I misunderstand what you are saying?
 
If you're man enought to conceal carry a 500Mag I'm not real sure you even need a gun. Oh my!
 
A few things overlooked in this thread....

I carry tiny little things that I can carry without holsters - not very effective perhaps, but I always have one or more. My typical carry is a Keltec P3AT .380 with the laser so it has any hope of hitting humans at 25 yds or a car engine area at 50. I also carry a little .22 NAA as a reserve, and a decent max length folding knife.

That is on my person. I live in my cars. Even when away, I am not far away. My 2 1/2 in (or whatever that is) .500SW is frequently in my glove box or console, as is one of my Witness 10mms. I shoot alot, but there is always a utility rifle of some sort in the trunk as well - often an old beater bolt action thing like a Mauser or Mosin or the current little Steyr M95 - or a beater AR or AK.

First thing not raised is utility against vehicles. Road attacks are extremely common - and by far the most likely I am to run into, pardon the pun. Here a much higher power round like the .500 or .454 comes into its own (I also sometimes carry my 9.5in SRH .454 instead of the .500.) In today's metro areas, gas stations, etc., the ability to quickly disable a car may be far more critical than quickly drawing and firing an assaulting pedestrian.

A decent high powered round should easily be able to destroy critical components such as fuel injection, ignition, timing chains or even upper valve train if fired at the high center of the engine compartment - front the front or especially from the side. (Forget aiming to flatten tires or radiator or other such minor targets - aim for what will make it rapidly stop as you rapidly get away from it.)

Now some huge negatives:

SOUND!!! I dropped any thought of carrying .45 after I tried shooting both of mine with no hearing protectors. Within 3 rounds I had tinnitus for the day and was nearly stunned. Oddly 800ft-lb 10mm doesn't have this effect, although .223 pistols do as well. I am never go to try my .454 or .500 that way. I know if i have to fire it, I will experience severe piercing pain from the first shot. How many try that with the gun they carry every day? You should.

My .500 is a stunningly accurate pistol, for all of its silly little barrel. Nevertheless, after a couple of cylinders, I'm flinching decently - oddly less than with my .454. If I had to shoot that double action? I might as well throw it at them.

Flash, oddly, many consider, but I find not that bad. I've had the opportunity to shoot a fair amount near and after dark and had little crippling effect from it.

Others mentioned the reloading aspect and 5 round capacity. (I didn't know anyone made speedloaders! I've been looking! I found some clever ammo holding strips from Midway or Brownell's that are handy for carrying the ammo, but no actual speedloaders!)

I think too much concern is given to hitting bystanders. Don't get me wrong there - if you do and you aren't working for the state, you are in terrible shape. (Don't get me wrong there, either - you will be in some trouble if you're behind a badge too, if you hit or kill a third party in a gun fight, but the odds are it won't involve a criminal conviction, day in jail or dollar out of your personal bank account.)

Anyhow, the reason is simple probability. ANY medium or more powered round COULD, of course, hit someone else - and many could do it AFTER hitting the bad guy - but although it happens, it's extremely unlikely except int he most crowded of situations, where one is not as likely to be attacked in the first place.

Some of this can be ameliorated with the use of fragmenting bullets or reduced loads - but that somewhat defeats the purpose (although a 2000 ft-lb bullet disintegrating inside a bad guy is pretty much like a death ray hit!)

My little "HellBoy BackUp" is not really that heavy or large. I live in too warm a climate for even sportscoats outside most of the year, so I don't carry on a hip in other than an IWB, but it would be as doable as a full sized ParaOrd ore one of my fullsized steel Witnesses. Possibly it could be carried in some IWB rig, but I have never tried.

For an in-car or at home or very cold weather/backwoods option - it is not that bad a choice. On the person, somewhat less so.

OhOhOh....in Texas country, don't forget use on feral hogs which are overrunning everywhere and pretty aggressive - although I think I would prefer more rounds with less recoil, like from one of my 10mm's.
 
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