.45 ACP vs. everything else

[bitstream]

Bottom line, 100 years of proven track record, worldwide, in all conditions. What other round can say that?

//Sleep with my Springfield XDm .45 nearby. 14 rounds of .45 ACP ready to go. Best of both worlds, caliber I trust and capacity.

 

[papajohn428]

I was carrying a .380 the day a 6-foot-5 scumbucket decided to carjack me. I kept the car and he didn't get shot, so it turned out well, but I decided that day that a .380 was a poor excuse for a carry gun. I bought a 45 the next day, and now own 6 of them. My 40 hasn't been shot much since, and only my duty/off-duty 38's get as much use at the plate rack. Sadly, I'm far better armed off-duty than I am on. My son calls it a fetish. I call it common sense.

The other one's a carbine.

 

[Rule 303]

I like .45s, I like 9mms, I like .38spl/.357mag, I like .44spl/.44mag, and also like my .380s.

Why, because I know this and make adjustments for what I'm carrying.

Shot Placement is the King, Caliber is the Queen, Capacity is the Prince, the Number of rounds you
put into the Target is the Princess and the quality of the Gun is the Joker.

Rule 303

 

[Darkenfast]

I was browsing through a stack of Gun Digests at a local bookstore, and found an article from the 60's that dissected the Thompson et. al. tests. The author made a pretty good case that the various service loads used in those tests demonstrated NO stopping power on cattle unless something like the heart, brain or spine were hit (I will try to find this article tomorrow). There's been a lot of urban myths put out about the .45 vs. 9mm issue, and since the advent of the internet, a lot of them just keep getting repeated, such as: "The 9mm was invented to wound rather than kill an enemy soldier". Really? Frankly, I gave up on the whole mess a long time ago, and as the late Stephen A. Camp urged, I put no trust in my ammunition or caliber. I think both 9mm and .45 round-nose FMJ work ABOUT the same, and the best hollowpoint loads in each caliber work ABOUT the same. I'm also not aware of any country (please correct me on this), that ditched the 9mm Parabellum for the .45ACP, and I don't think it's because those "furriners" can't handle a real gun, or they just wanted to "wound" people. It's simply a non-issue to the rest of the world.

 

[Kavinsky]

I was going to take out a second mortgage on our house to get one, but my wife nixed the idea - who knows why. She said she'd rather have a Lamborghini. I don't know why some women get like that...

John

Ehhh not a bad idea provided its one of the old ones like the Countach or the Miura, although the second one would probably take about 4 morgages rather than 1 for an LP400 or 500, plus its the ultimate anti hippy car and it'll look far cooler than the nissian cube next to you, mind you 5 to 8 MPG might be abit much to stomach, but hey its a countach not a cube or Scion XB or any of those spare parts cars and no one could accuse you of having bad taste like those folks, even if it was in bright pink with a matching interior.

anyways personal indulgment aside I'd rather go with a .45 just because I'd just have more faith in it, nothing wrong with any of the other calibers its just how I feel, hence why I'm going to go with a 645 as my go to carry gun in a few months after working out all of the kinks out of it (the sig 220 is just too plain jane for my tastes and cocked and locked makes me nervous)

and I'm starting to think anything under .40 call for carry should use hollowpoints to be 70% sure its a first shot stopper as under stress you supposedly loose 50% of your shooting abilty, mind you if you dont have that other 50% you shouldnt be shooting a gun to begin with like that woman who was flinching, closing her eyes when the gun went off and to top it off supposedly qualified with it for the army.

 

[Fishslayer]

You left out the all important Glock

No love for the KP90 either it would seem...

 

[NE450No2]

Baised on what I have actually seen and done, I would agree that the 45 ACP is the best choice for a trained individual.

For Duty use, a good Government 1911, for Plain clothes carry, off duty carry or Civilian Concealed carry a Light Weight Commander, 1911 in 45 ACP is the best choice, no doubt IMHO, again for a well trained person.

Everything considered, power, accuracy, controlability, carry ability, nothing else even comes close, again IMHO...

If you cannot handle a 1911 in 45 ACP, or you cannot carry a 1911 cocked and locked, or if the rules you work by do not allow it, then carry what your can, or what you feel comfortable with...

Train with it till YOU feel confident with it.

 

[jag312]

I was going to take out a second mortgage on our house to get one, but my wife nixed the idea - who knows why. She said she'd rather have a Lamborghini. I don't know why some women get like that...

John

I think I have one or two of these Singers around the house. I'll look for them and send you one. I just hope I didn't throw them away or trade them for a bag of groceries. Afterall, a gun made by a sewing machine company can't be worth much.

 

[nicky4968]

I will take a 4" 50, and a crew to run it.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The 45 ACP always worked for me "Across the Pond", then again, it was the issued handgun.
It's only the hits that count.

 

[cjw3]

I agree..."not this again" and I won't argue for or against anyone's choice but advances in ammunition technology have leveled the playing field when discussing cartridges in this class.

Use a quality gun and load it accordingly. Maintain proficiency by constructive practice. Cultivate the appropriate mindset, i.e., situational awareness.

Handloads.Com - Stopping Power

 

[Catshooter]

I agree Paladin. For 12 years I carried a 9mm. Before that it was the .45. And I have gone back to it now for some years. If you don't need big power in a handgun, it's the only way to go.

For big power I go to the 45 Colt.


Cat

 

[GatorFarmer]

. I'm also not aware of any country (please correct me on this), that ditched the 9mm Parabellum for the .45ACP.

Branches of service in the United States have opted to either get rid of the 9mm or not adopt it all. The United States Marine Corps Special Operation Command generally issues and uses 1911s. One of the new DIs here just got back to the states. He showed me the pile of Wilson 8rd mags he'd been issued and said his unit had all special ordered a Kimber for when they got back. He still had a Blackhawk Serpa for a 1911 attached to his armor carrier. The Eagle 1911 mag pouches that he had were also quite nice, and had the NSN printed on them, suggesting that they too are indeed an issue (albeit in limited numbers) item.

Airforce PJs also went to great lengths to retain the 1911. New and old ones continue to see use by Army units as well (Rangers, Delta, etc). Several were put to good use in the series of events popularly chronicled in "Blackhawk Down". At least some .45 M&Ps have seen use by the USMC recently and some years ago there was the adoption of the MK23 specifically as an offensive handgun.

So popular is the 1911 and the .45 in the USMC that if you visit the Marine Museum at Quantico, you will see that they have an entire display devoted to it. Venerated might be a better term come to think of it...

Where the .45 loses out a bit is in barrier penetration. It's also hasn't proved possible to develop an effective AP load for it that is capable of penetrating soft body armor, helmets, etc.

Still... a hundred years of anecdotal evidence regarding .45 FMJ (and anecdotal information about the .45 Colt before that) suggests that it works rather well. And that amongst those who have a choice - and could literally have anything they wanted in the world - the 1911/.45 combo still gets picked.

In the lab, we find that the .45/230gr FMJ offers about 18 to 18 and a half inches of penetration in "jello". The original suggestion from the IWBA was 18 or more or penetration (to reliably damage the resilient internal organs in humans). For various reasons this later became the "12" standard most people are familiar with, but they generally forget about the "or more" part of even that.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Big fan of the 45. Big fan of cast too. They go together well.

Big boolits at moderate speed are perfect IMO.

I have one 1911 and a P220 and either is my preferred go-to.

Also a big fan of the 44Spl and 45 Colt for general duties and truth be told, I like 44 mag the best for things like woods walking/hunting/camping.

I suppose if I used jacketed bullets I would consider a different or smaller caliber, but I prefer to rely on mass rather than velocity and the acp has that.

Besides, it's easier to have that important accurate second shot and the acp is nothing if not a good caliber for double taps.

 

[Sprefix]

My aluminum nickels worth.............

All Hail John Moses Browning!! And I also (absolutely) love my early West German Sig P-220. Something about the Sig is very exotic and well-mannered. Sounds weird, but I'm sticking to it. Night sights(tritium), and a Harrts recoil reducer make it a sweet little pusher that is VERY accurate. I'm on the hook to send it back to Sig for the SRT(short reset trigger) enhancement. I hope I don't get bit by the blood sucking money bug again before I send it off. A regular at one of the LGS had it done and it is very impressive for quick follow-up shots. He's a double-tapping kind of a guy.

 

[quneur]

...Back in the early 20th Century, the Thompson-LaGarde tests conclusively showed that the minimum combat pistol caliber should be .45. As a result, most of our U.S. issue pistols and revolvers were in .45 caliber until the advent of M9 pistol (9mm) in 1985. Experience with the full metal jacket 9mm rounds has caused many of those in our armed services, particularly the elite outfits, to return to the time-tested .45 ACP. If you want to know more about this, check my article on .45 service handguns in the 2003 Gun Digest. Here's just a sampling of our 20th Century service .45s:...

Not to be picky or put down the .45acp but the Thompson-LaGarde test was done in 1904. The .45acp was first available in 1905.

With modern loads, a 9mm +p+ approaches a standard 45acp ballistics. Personally, I wouldn't feel undergunned carrying a 9mm against a human. But I've never been in a situation where I had to fire a gun at another human.

 

[oldman45]

Are you guys trying to say there are calibers other than the long time tried and effective .45acp or .45lc?

 

[7tenz]

What if, just what if, your advesary is also carrying a 45 acp? Your screwed.

 

[617X10]

You guys are just too old and arthritic to load magazines with anything smaller than .45's.

 

[swllwsgn]

What if, just what if, your advesary is also carrying a 45 acp? Your screwed.

and you are screwed moreso if he is and you are not.