Speer Gold Dot 135gr SB +P Equivalent

[myanof]

A couple of years ago I got a great load on this forum for the Speer GD 135gr .357 SB at just over 1,000 fps out of my 340PD. Now I am wondering if anyone with a chrono has come up with a factory equivalent for the +P version of this load at approx 860 fps.

Hopefully someone will have some info for me using Unique as this is what I use for the .357 load also.

Thanks

 

[fredj338]

5gr of Unique in a 38sp case will get you close to 900fps depending on gun specifics. My SP101 runs right at that.

 

[Rule3]

If I could ever find any Gold Dots I would sure test them for both you and me.

As far as I can see, Gold Dot Component bullets are non existent. I even wrote and called Speer about the lack of availability of common caliber and weight bullets. They gave me corporate speak of, "we are at full production and most go into loaded factory ammo."

Don't know why I have their manual, can't find their bullets.??

So I use Hornady XTP's.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I did a ton of work on replicating that ammo and here's what I came up with. Most of the powders Speer listed will work but in a replica you not only want to replicate the velocity but the feel of the recoil too. My best results were achieved using either a 135gr Speer GDHP bullet or a 140gr Hornady XTP bullet over a charge of 6.8gr AA#5. That isn't the Max charge but it is the charge that comes closest to replicating the factory ammo.

 

[Erich]

For .38 Special +P, I used the Speer 135-grain short-barrel JHP with Winchester .38 Spl brass over 6.4 grains (each charge measured - thanks RCBS 1500 Chargemaster!) of Power Pistol and a CCI 500. (This is the max +P charge listed by Speer on their site for that powder/caliber/bullet.) Gave them each a firm roll crimp with the Lee FCD.

(5950' > sea level, 10% humidity, winds calm, 58° F):

From the 3" 36-1: M 917.8/ES 75.9/SD 24.59
From the 2 1/8" DS: M 863.6/ES 59.7/SD 19.65
From the 1 7/8" 37-2: M 854.3/ES 78.9/SD 40.66

Later, I used some HS-6 in an attempt to better this .38 Special +P performance: 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel JHPs over 7.2 gr. HS-6 and a CCI magnum primer in .38 PMC cases (Speer's maximum listing for this bullet/caliber/powder), with a firm crimp (5950'>sea level, 57°F, c. 40% humidity).

4" GP-100: M 978.8 fps/ES 96.48/SD 36.37
3" S&W 36-1: M 858.8/ES 83.22/SD 33.74
2 1/8" DS: M 827.8/ES 92.01/SD 38.47

I wasn't thrilled with these results, so I shot it again:

4" GP-100: M 942.0/ES 103.1/SD 41.91
3" S&W 36-1: M 878.6/ES 67.11/SD 26.96
2 1/8" DS: M 813.2/ES 46.25/SD 17.74

Honestly, neither of these two loadings were all that accurate from my guns. Good enough, but not target-grade. I decided to go with the Power Pistol loading, which seems closer to factory ammo performance from my guns. I've been able to find the Speer Gold Dot short barrel bullets after a couple of weeks' searching each time I've looked, BTW.

 

[myanof]

5gr of Unique in a 38sp case will get you close to 900fps depending on gun specifics. My SP101 runs right at that.

Speer lists 5gr of Unique with a 140gr bullet at 902. I thought about this one. It migh be slightly more speed with a 135, but not much.

 

[myanof]

If I could ever find any Gold Dots I would sure test them for both you and me.

As far as I can see, Gold Dot Component bullets are non existent. I even wrote and called Speer about the lack of availability of common caliber and weight bullets. They gave me corporate speak of, "we are at full production and most go into loaded factory ammo."

Don't know why I have their manual, can't find their bullets.??

So I use Hornady XTP's.

The last ones I bought came from Midway. I still have about 60 left.

 

[myanof]

For .38 Special +P, I used the Speer 135-grain short-barrel JHP with Winchester .38 Spl brass over 6.4 grains (each charge measured - thanks RCBS 1500 Chargemaster!) of Power Pistol and a CCI 500. (This is the max +P charge listed by Speer on their site for that powder/caliber/bullet.) Gave them each a firm roll crimp with the Lee FCD.

(5950' > sea level, 10% humidity, winds calm, 58° F):

From the 3" 36-1: M 917.8/ES 75.9/SD 24.59
From the 2 1/8" DS: M 863.6/ES 59.7/SD 19.65
From the 1 7/8" 37-2: M 854.3/ES 78.9/SD 40.66

Later, I used some HS-6 in an attempt to better this .38 Special +P performance: 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel JHPs over 7.2 gr. HS-6 and a CCI magnum primer in .38 PMC cases (Speer's maximum listing for this bullet/caliber/powder), with a firm crimp (5950'>sea level, 57°F, c. 40% humidity).

4" GP-100: M 978.8 fps/ES 96.48/SD 36.37
3" S&W 36-1: M 858.8/ES 83.22/SD 33.74
2 1/8" DS: M 827.8/ES 92.01/SD 38.47

I wasn't thrilled with these results, so I shot it again:

4" GP-100: M 942.0/ES 103.1/SD 41.91
3" S&W 36-1: M 878.6/ES 67.11/SD 26.96
2 1/8" DS: M 813.2/ES 46.25/SD 17.74

Honestly, neither of these two loadings were all that accurate from my guns. Good enough, but not target-grade. I decided to go with the Power Pistol loading, which seems closer to factory ammo performance from my guns. I've been able to find the Speer Gold Dot short barrel bullets after a couple of weeks' searching each time I've looked, BTW.

I hear power pistol is great powder, but my intent is to not add to my stock of Unique, W231/HP38, 296/H110. My life is in consolidation mode these days, but thanks for the load data.

 

[Rule3]

I hear power pistol is great powder, but my intent is to not add to my stock of Unique, W231/HP38, 296/H110. My life is in consolidation mode these days, but thanks for the load data.

I hear what you are saying and felt the same way until I got some Power Pistol.

In the 9 and 40 SW it is outstanding. As much of a HP 38 fan as I am, PP may take it's place.

 

[myanof]

I hear what you are saying and felt the same way until I got some Power Pistol.

In the 9 and 40 SW it is outstanding. As much of a HP 38 fan as I am, PP may take it's place.

No argument here. Brian Pierce recommends PP up to 44 Magnum. I'm getting kind of old to be changing what I have been doing for the past 20 years, but not too old to learn. I'll check it out, thanks.

By the way, what loading manual do you find to be a good match for Power Pistol loads?

 

[KSCowboy]

I got similar results to Erich with Power Pistol and the Remington 125 grain SJHP. Federal +P+ cases, Winchester Small Pistol Primer.

6.3 grains PP & Rem 125 gr SJHP

M-60-10 3" 1043 fps
M-64 3" 964 fps
M-642-1 2" 863 fps
Det Spl 2" 869 fps

6.4 grains PP & Cast Lee 150 gr SWCHP-GC

M-60-10 3" 1017 fps

 

[Steve C]

In general I've found that if you use the data in Speers manual you will come very close to the velocities they publish within the variation expected from using different guns. Use a Winchester primer rather than the CCI and a 4" revolver will deliver what they say a 6" will do. Speers data I have says 5.2grs of Unique is their max +P load in the .38 spl with the 135gr GD for 988 fps.

 

[Rule3]

No argument here. Brian Pierce recommends PP up to 44 Magnum. I'm getting kind of old to be changing what I have been doing for the past 20 years, but not too old to learn. I'll check it out, thanks.

By the way, what loading manual do you find to be a good match for Power Pistol loads?

In the new Hornady manual it is their "go to powder" for the 9mm. I just started using it in 9, 40 and the new 327 Fed Mag.

Hard to describe, but it is a "loud" powder. Must be all the Nitro in it. Instead of a black carbon residue on the brass (like HP 38) it leaves a grayish white ash. must burn hotter or more complete.

 

[3five7]

I use Speer #14, it lists several loadings using Power Pistol including the Speer 135 gr SB Gold Dot.

 

[Rule3]

I use Speer #14, it lists several loadings using Power Pistol including the Speer 135 gr SB Gold Dot.

If you ever find the Speer 135 GD HP buy a few extra boxes and I will buy them from you!

 

[3five7]

If you ever find the Speer 135 GD HP buy a few extra boxes and I will buy them from you!

Midway says they expect to have them in stock on 11-7-11.

 

[Rule3]

Midway says they expect to have them in stock on 11-7-11.

Thanks!, but then of course the other items on my wish list will be out of stock at that time and then go on sale a week after I buy something.