Speer Gold Dot 9mm +P+ safe?

Would you be so kind as to show us some examples of where the velocity of a +P load matches or exceeds (even by the slightest fraction) the velocity of a +P+ load while using the same cartridge, same bullet weight and same manufacturer.

I did not stipulate the same manufacturer, nor did I mention claimed velocities. I referred to delivered velocities of the same bullet weight in the same weapon on the same chrono, same time.

However:
Federal 9BPLE (+P+) clocked slightly over 1200 fps at the same time Cor-Bon +P of the same weight clocked slightly over 1300 fps. IIRC, the Federal round about duplicated the velocities of Remington +P of the same weight. Other lots of the various ammunitions cited may produce slightly different results, as may different weapons.

Relative performance of the bullets was interesting. The Federal round simply shredded itself, the Cor-Bon's nose partially fragmented during expansion and produced secondary wound channels (don't recall the expanded diameter) and the Remington round mushroomed nicely to around .54. While the Federal round may have an enviable rep on the street, the lack of projectile integrity was disturbing and possibly has something to do with it's relatively poor rep on very large individuals.

Bear in mind, manufacturers generally do not design a different bullet for the +P and (where available) +P+ ammo. You're simply driving the same bullet faster. This may produce better expansion, it may also drive the round past it's design limitations and result in a failure to maintain integrity. With todays improved bullet designs, higher velocities are not necessary for adequate expansion.

Terminal performance is dictated by bullet placement, not velocity.
 
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Originally Posted by CTG_COLLECTOR
Would you be so kind as to show us some examples of where the velocity of a +P load matches or exceeds (even by the slightest fraction) the velocity of a +P+ load while using the same cartridge, same bullet weight and same manufacturer.

I did not stipulate the same manufacturer, nor did I mention claimed velocities. I referred to delivered velocities of the same bullet weight in the same weapon on the same chrono, same time.

Nor did you post that your statement was based on anything other than what appeared as just you opinion.

However:
Federal 9BPLE (+P+) clocked slightly over 1200 fps at the same time Cor-Bon +P of the same weight clocked slightly over 1300 fps. IIRC, the Federal round about duplicated the velocities of Remington +P of the same weight. Other lots of the various ammunitions cited may produce slightly different results, as may different weapons.

Sorry, but Fed 9BPLE clocking slightly over 1200fps is total BS. The only way this could happen is if the ammo was defective and under-loaded (highly improbable) in which case the ammo should have been sent back, or the ammo used was actually 9BP and not actual 9BPLE (more probable). 9BPLE is still a LE Only loading and Federal would not be shipping this ammo to LEA's if it only clocked 1200fps or less when it's standard is 1300fps (my ammo actually clocked 1319fps).

As a side note, Corbon's 115JHP+P was actually designed as a civilian +P+ loading and their early boxes were actually marked as +P+!

Your statement: "Yes, +P+ ammo has no standards, and in some cases may not actually produce more velocity than selected +P" still doesn't hold water when factually comparing factory loaded standard +P loads vs. LE designed +P+ loads using the same bullet weights. Using your own (or someone else's) backyard ballistics is meaningless when there are multiple variables to take into account along with the human bias agenda and "fudge" factor.
 
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Sorry, but Fed 9BPLE clocking slightly over 1200fps is total BS. .........

Using your own (or someone else's) backyard ballistics is meaningless

Assuming that testing was done in a backyard is in error. Nor were the results BS, they were duplicated on multiple chronos and the ammo bore proper headstamps.
 
Hi Our local PD uses +P+ 9mm for thier carry ammo,and the LE Armorer involved had to secure waivers for use in the Glock 19 sidearms.IMHO if you need that much power I think you would be better served to get a 357 sig or a 40 cal and call it a day.You don't need to worry about your sidearm going kaboom with a bad guy shooting @ you.Just my 2 cents worth.God Bless...Mike
 
Hi Our local PD uses +P+ 9mm for their carry ammo,and the LE Armorer involved had to secure waivers for use in the Glock 19 sidearms.IMHO if you need that much power I think you would be better served to get a 357 sig or a 40 cal and call it a day.You don't need to worry about your sidearm going kaboom with a bad guy shooting @ you.Just my 2 cents worth.God Bless...Mike
....
Mike: You always need as much "power" as necessary! Getting any caliber, bullet style, weapon ( brand and/or model ) are generally the purview of the chief, sheriff, county/city board, and budget. It is few and far between that street LEO are asked THEIR opinion! Be Safe.
 
That is very sad that they don't ask the LEO's what thier opinions are.If I were king I would say the hell with just pistols and issue all LEO's MP 5's too.Then maybe LEO's would be equally armed as the criminals.
 
I have personally used either Cor-Bon 115gr +P or Remington Golden Saber 124gr +P for a good many years. The reason why I don't go a step higher to the +P+ is because I'm at my upper limit regarding controllability out of a 9mm pistol as it is. When I say "controllability" I'm not saying what's the most powerful round I can fire without discomfort. I'm saying what's the most powerful round that I can still keep 10 rounds inside a 10" circle at 10 yards in under 10 seconds. I think some folks worry too much about how much wear and tear they're putting on their precious firearm, and not enough about whether they can shoot such a load fast and accurately enough to save their backside. It's a matter of priorities.
 
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When you consider the leaps and bounds that have been made in bullet technology, there really isn't a "need" for a +P+ 9mm load.

Federals 124 gr +P HST, Speers 124 gr +P Gold Dot, and Barnes 115 gr XPB bullet loaded at +P levels by Corbon & Black Hills are the best loads going in 9mm.
 
That is very sad that they don't ask the LEO's what thier opinions are.If I were king I would say the hell with just pistols and issue all LEO's MP 5's too.Then maybe LEO's would be equally armed as the criminals.

Question is, how many agencies will be willing to be sued for using a "machine gun" against criminals? Just ask Downey PD.

Downey Shooting: Downey Police Sued Over Machine Gun Shooting of Unarmed Man - ktla.com

(Run from the cops and make them think that you're armed, you win a one-way ticket to the morgue).
 
Well if you are stupid enough to run from the police,gesture in a threatening manner to make them think you are armed then you are asking to get shot.If the criminals knew the LEO's have MP5's then maybe they would think twice before engaging in such activity because it could be very hazardous to thier health.
 
CTG_COLLECTOR: Thank you for the link. The level of ignorance of the comment section is scary!! I guess all LEO are "bad" machine gunners?? I am surprised that the MP-5 was brought up, the guy was shot 3 times, How many LEO'S?? If it was only one sounds like a well placed burst!! Hopefully the truth will come out, but I will stay out of LA when the verdict is read. Be Safe.
 
The S&W manual says not to use +P ammo in revolvers (specifically "K" frames), and not to use +P+ ammo in any S&W firearm.
 
On page 2 of this thread, member Elmer noted that Speer Gold Dot 115 +p+ is the least effective 9mm of the bunch... Can he or anyone else point me to the empirical data that shows the comparisons? I am trying to understand how this round can be any less effective than any other 9 +p+ since it is a Gold Dot bullet and it is moving at a high velocity. I have a couple of hundred rounds of it and got it at a good price. Did I buy some ammo that someone had lost confidence in due to poor performance???
 
115gr +P+

Out of my full size S&W MP 9mm.

Corbon 115gr +P average was 1329 fps.

Speer 115gr +P+ average was 1296 fps.

+P+ doesn't appear to be a big issue in this case.

Speer was Gold Dot, Corbon was not DPX all copper.

Good Luck
 
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