I will never tell another officer I'm carrying again.

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oldman45

You sound like the old timers like me who tried our best to "promote justice" rather than chalk up statistics.

Some of the things we did back in the old days to keep someone who had "screwed up" out of jail and back to living would get us fired or worse today.

You keep on keepin' on ya hear......
 
Sir, with all due respect, there are tens of thousands of laws on the books.
And I as a citizen am responsible for knowing EVERY one of them, to the extent that I don't violate it.

If ignorance of the law is no defense for me, it's no defense for a cop.

Of course we're not talking about weight limits in elevators or number of rat hairs permitted in a 1lb. tub of hummus. We're talking about laws affecting situations which any LEO could encounter at any time. An LEO not knowing the applicable laws regarding carrying of firearms is every bit as inane as the woman from TN who tried to carry in NYC. There's no excuse for either of them, none at all.
 
No officer, attorney, Judge or politician knows all the laws.
You don't need to know "all the laws".

You need to know all the laws you're ENFORCING RIGHT NOW.

That's why they call it "law enforcement" and not "guess enforcement" or "whim enforcement".

If the cop doesn't know the law, "just make something up" is a really bad, and potentially expensive alternative to knowing his business.

I guarantee you that none of those NYPD cops cares one iota whether that woman from TN knew the gun laws in NYC. They only care that she violated them, and the law imposes no other standard on them.

If the cop doesn't deserve a complaint, then the woman doesn't deserve to be arrested. In fact, he deserves a complaint and she deserves to get arrested.
 
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I agree that cops can't know all the laws. But they should know the laws regarding concealed carry and transportation of firearms. The likelyhood of a cop dealing with a concealed carrier is greater than ever before.

I've been pulled over twice (speeding). Both times I handed my permit along with license and insurance. They asked where the gun was. Then told me to keep my hands in plain view. They thanked me and let me go. Honesty saved me from two speeding tickets.
 
Old man, and others, IF you are in conversation, contfronted, with, etc with ANY LEO, he should KNOW THE LAW... THAT IS HIS JOB, it was mine for over 30 years. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ANY LEO NOT TO KNOW ALL AND ANY LAW HE IS TRYING TO ENFORCE....

There is no excuse for him to leave your gun or any other of your poropety in the rain...

CHL LAWS ARE A MATTER OF RECORD. FOR ANY WORKING LEO NOT TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT THEM, AND NOT FOLLOWING THEM, AS WRITTEN, IS GROUNDS FOR FIRING IMHO. And even suing for monetary damages.

The Police are required to know the law... I know I was...



Thanks for wearing a badge. I have 3 family members that have also. Part of the problem, as you are aware, is that the standards are NOT what they were 30 years ago. Now it's the point and quota system.
 
Better to be honest with the police officer. It could be considered a misdemeanor to lie to an officer. You could have been arrested for lying to a police officer if he found the gun and you said you didn't have one. It could lead to increased suspicions and further searches of your vehicle.
 
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I'll be a real pain in the neck to everybody here. I have been full time for 16 years. Cops can't know every law (statutes, AG opinions and case law). No cop could even purport to know every law they are responsible for enforcing, in full. There are 1000s of laws and they change all of the time. NO WAY. But, I always tell my guys not to detain, arrest or make a traffic stop for any offense for which they cannot quote the elements.

My state legislature made it clear in the statute that:

1: The weapon carrier must notify the officer they are carrying a weapon.
2: The officer may not "inspect" the firearm unless other circumstances are present which would justify it.

If only...
 
Having someone leave your weapon in the rain is a "courtesy?":eek::eek:

Yes, in fact, thats the way I see it. Allowing the carrier to see and know exactly where the weapon is was a discretionary measure that the officer did not have to take. Subtly perhaps, but a courteous gesture none the less. I mean after all, it's not like the weapon was going to melt.
 
Indianna pull over

I had the impression C C W permits were tied into your D M V plates and the L E could tell your were authorized to carry ???
 
The last few times I've been stopped I've been carrying, and I always hand over my CCW permit with my DL. Are there weapons in the vehicle? "Yes sir, you betcha!" They want to know where, and I tell them. "I have a four-inch 357 revolver in a shoulder holster under my coat, and a 38 snubby in my right front pocket." If they ask why I'm carrying, I say "Because you can't be everywhere at once, keeping everyone safe, and this is a dangerous world."

The general response is "Okay, keep your hands off of yours, and I'll keep my hands off mine......fair enough?"

"Yes Sir!"

Have a Nice Day.

I think I'd be writing a Dear Chief letter over this one.........just to point out that it could have been handled better.
 
Indictment.

Melt, no. Rust yes.

It was amateur hour on the cop's part.

I'm thinking that is an awfully harsh judgement for someone who wasn't there.... then again, I wasn't either.

Rain water doesn't cause rust. Neglect does. My CCW guns are regularly exposed to worse but recieve frequent attention.
 
Just based on the first post, it sounds like the officer was trying to do his job, and when he realized he was mistaken... tried to show some respect.

Maybe he was a little *green*, who knows. Based on his attitude towards the end.... I'd cut him a little slack and not try to get him in trouble. Live and let live.

Any *carry* gun is subject to harm in my experience. I had to crawl under my car the other day and forgot I had my 58 on me. It got another scratch on it. Grrrr. That's why I don't *carry* my pre-29.
 
You don't need to know "all the laws".

You need to know all the laws you're ENFORCING RIGHT NOW.

That's why they call it "law enforcement" and not "guess enforcement" or "whim enforcement".

Sorry but no officer knows all the laws and anyone saying he does is flatout lying. Any law enforcement officer should be enforcing ALL laws but they cannot since they do not know all the laws.

Sure, a LEO will know the basics but there are many branches of a law that changes the color of the that law.

Since so many here know CCW laws and using LA as an example such as the restaurant carry I mentioned above, the law says carry is forbidden in "Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises."

Ok, that is the law on the books but what about those mentioned in Title 26 of Civil Code?

Appplee's has a Class A General Permit. So do you carry in there or just in the dining area or is carry forbidden by the law? What happens if you have to go to the bathroom and pass through their bar area since there are no walls dividing it off?

Laws are often grey and there are other laws that make some law more concise.

A better example since most know basic traffic rules. You are making a left turn and doing so under the protection of an illuminated left turn arrow. An approaching motorist ignores his red signal and hits you. Who is at fault?

According to the law in Louisiana and most other states, you violated the law. The law and court rulings have upheld that a left turning motorist has the burden of proof that, even under the arrow, you have to be sure the turn can be made in safety and without danger to persons or property. You have to check for approaching traffic, cross traffic, overtaking traffic and make sure they are stopping. You also must have proof the arrow was illuminated. A local deputy was charged in such a case after an accident and he also lost the civil suit against both he and his department.

Yet ask any officer and most will say if you have the light, you are good to go.

Also, many times, an officer will call in to find out what law applies or if any law was broken. How many times have you read where someone was arrested and charges were pending or else it was being decided what charges to apply? It is not officers making those decisions, it is District Attorneys and Judges that spent years in law school and going to seminars for Continuing Legal Education each year. Often times, an opinion comes from the State Attorney General after researchers spend hours or days going over the law books to see if a law has been broken or what the appropriate law is.

If a DA, Judge or Atty General has to research the laws, how would a police officer that was just academy trained know the laws? Are you saying that a year of academy is more informative than law school?

What is your State BAC limit for a DUI charge? I bet is is .08 but I bet few know what it is for a person carrying concealed and most officers will not unless they have ran into it before. What about if the driver is underage? Is the limit the same?

Again, any officer saying he knows the law is dangerous and lying.

Also, state laws are changed at least once every two years. This year, LA had over 700 laws enacted or changed. What officer knows what laws were changed and how the laws read?
 
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Another thing that nobody has mentioned.

Not all officers are handgun people. Many, if not most, only fire their guns during qualifying periods. They may not own a gun of their own and just have their duty weapon.

I am not trying to justify the actions of anyone but just pointing out there are other things to be considered that has not been mentioned and will not unless the officer is on here and gives his side. There could be many other circumstances, departmental rules, laws or such that caused the gun to be removed, placed on the hood of the patrol car.

Has anyone here ever hunted in the rain? Sure, that is by choice but the gun gets wet but then is dried off and no harm to the gun.

Have you ever worn your gun in a rain? It likely got wet. I recently got a "tactical" jacket that is designed to keep both my gun and myself dry but still allow me immediate access to the gun. But I just got it. Prior to the jacket purchase, my gun got wet when I did.

We cannot control the weather, laws or actions of others. Nor can we second guess why things went the way they did. I have an unfired, 100% S&W model 25-5. It would not anger me if an officer were to allow it to sit in the rain for a few minutes as it will not hurt it. Nor would it cause me to possibly break a law in the future by not announcing the presence of a firearm.

Nor am I being critical of the OP. He feels the way he does for a reason. He just may not have considered the motives of the officer. Also, like getting a traffic ticket, a person always blames the officer. It may have been the law and the officer has to obey the law just as the citizen.
 
I always show my CCW permit with my DL if stopped.
I don't want the officer nervous.
If he left my gun in the rain, I'd be a little upset but it'll clean up just fine.
Those guys deal with a lot of **** all day.
They can't be 100% right all the time.
 
There are idiots in every profession. Law enforcement is no different.
 
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