Post Office & Handguns

[2152hq]

There used to be a web site that (for free!) you could look up by ser# just about any US issue firearm.
Springfield Research,,something like that..

Not every firearm resulted in a record on file, but it wasn't uncommon for a S&W 1917 to come back w/ 'sold to USPS' and a 1920's or 30's date.

The USPO contract holster shown for the 2" bbl by OldFlatfoot was fairly commonly seen for sale around about 25 yrs ago .
Maybe the PO surplused what they had at that time.
They were made in L/H also. I had a few of both.
I don't recall a date on mine,,but..

Thought they were kind of neat,,PO marked and all.
They were very inexpensive at the time.

 

[sandwtrader]

U.S. Postal guns

I have in my collection an I frame .38 Terrier that letters ".38 Pre-Model 32, U.S. Post Office Contract". Letter continues, "Serial Number 59603, was shipped from our factory on February 12, 1951, and delivered to the United States Post Office, Washington, DC. Blued 2" barrel. Came to me with a Tan belt holster marked "Property of U.S. Post Office". So engraved on the back strap.
Don't know how many were in the contact but I have seen one other from this contract. Does require futher research.

 

[SG-688]

SG688, I am surprised at you. The pouch on the right is the three pocket pouch{WW1} issued to carry extra 1/2 moon clips. ....

Doh! back at you. What's that center weapon look like to you? Easier to see blown up. I don't see a hammer. ....M10?

 

[Muley Gil]

Are you talking about the Model 12 Winchester shotgun? All of the Marines seem to be carrying 1917 revolvers.

 

[kwill1911]

I'm late to this party but a couple of year ago I researched this topic pretty thoroughly and published an article in "The Rampant Colt" (Colt Collectors Association) about it. The vast majority of Colt's production of Banker's Specials went to the Post Office Dept to arm Railway Mail Service agents.

From the inception of U.S. Mail service robbery was a problem. Before electronic funds transfer systems, real money, gold, precious jewelry and other high value property had to move by stagecoach or rail or air. So, stagecoach drivers, airmail pilots and railway mail clerks were all armed. In the late 19th century quite a few Colt single action army revolvers were loaned by the Army to the POD (post office department) but these were returned a few years later for the Spanish-American war. In the early 20th century M1917 revolvers were loaned to the RMS (Railway Mail Service) but these did not stop the loss of over $6 million from 1919-1921. Tunnels were blown up with dynamite, trains were derailed and quite a few postal agents were killed in a number of notorious robberies. In fact, the first motion picture, "The Great Train Robbery," was about holding up a mail train.

By the end of 1921, the situation had deteriorated to the point that Postmaster General Will H. Hays asked President Harding for help from the U.S. Marine Corps.

Within a few days, 2,200 Marines and 53 officers from Quantico, Virginia, and San Diego, California were spread throughout the country guarding the mail. They usually worked in small detachments of two or three Marines.

S&W did get to sell the RMS a few Terrier's but most of them had Colt Banker's Specials. I've even got a film strip that show the little brief case they were issued with special compartments for various rubber stamps, tags, cards, etc. In the middle of the valise is a special compartment for the revolver, holster and belt they were issued.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[bushmaster1313]

Given that handguns are forbidden in Post Offices, today it would be a real juggling act for a letter carrier to go armed.

The letter carrier would need to leave the gun in a car parked off of Post Office property, go into the building to sort and load up the mail, exit the building, go back to the car, retrieve the gun, complete the rounds, and then return the gun to the parked car before returing to the Post Office.

 

[PMRet]

Given that handguns are forbidden in Post Offices, today it would be a real juggling act for a letter carrier to go armed.

The letter carrier would need to leave the gun in a car parked off of Post Office property, go into the building to sort and load up the mail, exit the building, go back to the car, retrieve the gun, complete the rounds, and then return the gun to the parked car before returing to the Post Office.

Postal employees are not only prohibited from carrying firearms on postal property, they are prohibited from carrying firearms at any time while on duty. This includes in postal vehicles, on walking routes, and even in personal vehicles used by rural mail carriers while delivering their routes.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Postal employees are not only prohibited from carrying firearms on postal property, they are prohibited from carrying firearms at any time while on duty. This includes in postal vehicles, on walking routes, and even in personal vehicles used by rural mail carriers while delivering their routes.

Sounds pretty severe to me

 

[Dano136]

I saw one of the Ruger "post office" revolvers in a local gun shop many years ago. It was a stainless, Ruger Speed Six with a unique 3" bbl.

Just about every federal agency has an armed law enforcemnt unit - even the Bureau of Land Management.

A few months back I was looking for a Speed Six and found this one on Gunbroker. After getting it home I took a couple of pics and posted them on the Ruger forum. One of the members said I should call Ruger and have check the sel#. Yep, it was 1 of 1500 made for the USPS. If the Gunbroker add would have known this and posted it that way I think it would have went for more.

 

[2152hq]

..... I don't see a hammer. ....M10?

I think it's a Remington M10 also.
No ejection port and the location (up high from center) of the Remington logo on the butt plate looks correct.
Used as guard, riot and trench guns in WW1.

Looks like it was kind of crowded & cold in there for the long train ride.

What ever,,a neat picture for sure. Thanks for posting it.

 

[2K7]

That is so cool.

Ah, don't suppose, you by any chance still have that holster? Even a picture of that holster would be terrific.

Here you go.....!

 

[El Biblioitecario]

Looking back on my brief stint as a letter carrier, I can imagine the furor which would have been caused by someone even mentioning the possiblity of carrying firearms.

Having said that, in the late '60s a career postal employee gave me a quantity of .38S&W brass he had policed up after some employees (job descriptions unknown) had test fired their weapons in a steam pipe tunnel under an urban post office. So apparantly weapons of that caliber were still around at that time.

 

[kwill1911]

I hope it is OK to resurrect this old thread. We know about the POD using M1917 revolvers borrowed or surplussed from the Army. They bought lots of Colt Banker's Specials and a few S&W Terriers, primarily for the Railway Mail Service. There is the Model 45 "Post Office" revolver. But what do you reckon is in this holster? The revolver and the holster are heretofore unknown to me as standard PO issue. The picture is dated 1970.
Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[DCWilson]

Round butt 10-5 with a four-inch barrel would be my guess.

From the diamond-free stocks, the gun is of post 1968 manufacture.

 

[DWalt]

A couple of stories:

A guy who worked for me in the early 1980s had two brothers who worked on the Post Office rail cars back in the 1940s. He told me that his brothers carried Colt 1917s at the time. As previously related, back in those days, a lot of mail traveled on railroad mail cars, and mail sorting was done en route by postal clerks. And a lot of cash and valuables were transported by the Post Office. Therefore, armed postal employees were almost a necessity.

On the IAA forum, there was a discussion in which it was brought up that the Post Office once used .38 Short Colt ammunition in .38 Special revolvers for training, as the .38 Short Colt would not only chamber in .38 Specials, but it was also much milder than the standard .38 Special load, and therefore more suited for training. Does anyone know more about this?

 

[kwill1911]

The RMS bought thousands of Banker's Special and a few hundred S&W Terriers, both in .38 S&W. They bought damn few guns in .38 Special, AFAIK.

 

[DWalt]

But not necessarily for RMS service.

 

[loc n load]

Having a background at FLETC (Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) we had over 50 federal agencies that had armed divisions within them, some off the wall like the Dept. of Education. There were several agencies in the late 80's and 90's that were issuing the 3" Ruger's as mentioned in previous posts.

 

[lawandorder]

Since kevin brought this one back up.....

how about another model 45 image wearing some old ivories.

 

[bettis1]

I saw a uniformed officer with a U. S. Postal Police shoulder patch in a restaurant where I eat breakfast last week. I didn't do a "target glance" at his sidearm but it was some sort of plastic pistol. Unfortunately, the guy looked as though his long time assignment had been protection of interstate transportation of Crispy Creme doughnuts.

Bob