Garand Reloads

[Nick B]

My LC brass is sized, trimmed, and primed . I have IMR4895 and Hornady 150grn FMJ heads . Now I need a load for it all . The Hornady manual has a chapter on M1 loads but they are using non-military brass . I want to use my LC . I also have some H4895 but I'd like to use the IMR first .
Suggestions please .
Nick .

 

[raf7]

The only thing I would suggest is to use "small base" dies. Most semi-autos function better when the expanded base of fired brass is reduced to factory specs.

 

[Dragon88]

You do not need small base dies for your garand.

M1 load data (courtesy of NRA)

 

[Ron H.]

My LC brass is sized, trimmed, and primed . I have IMR4895 and Hornady 150grn FMJ heads . Now I need a load for it all . The Hornady manual has a chapter on M1 loads but they are using non-military brass . I want to use my LC . I also have some H4895 but I'd like to use the IMR first .
Suggestions please .
Nick .

Sir, for GI .30 M2 and 7.62 brass, the rule of thumb is to subtract 2 grains from recommended loads for commercial brass.

For .30-'06 Garands, a common load for 150s in GI brass is 47.0 grains of IMR 4895. Be sure to work it up, though, don't just jump straight to it. I haven't used H4895, so haven't any info on that one other than that it's not the same as the IMR version, and the data are not interchangeable.

And no, you don't need small-base dies.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[22shtur]

A miltary barrel which has a generous chamber, don't require using small base dies. The SB dies will shorten the brass life quickly.

This is a great site for pistols/revolvers, the CMP forum is devoted to M1 Garand shooting and loads.

 

[Jellybean]

I agree with Ron H. 99.9%.
You may not need small base dies depending on which ones you are using.

Are your dies made by RCBS? RCBSs regular dies do not size the same as those from other manufacturers in that they are a little over minimum specs. If you are using dies from the other manufacturers they are the same as the small base dies from RCBS.

 

[Jellybean]

I just wanted to add that even if you are using regular RCBS dies, since you already have them and have some brass sized go ahead and load a few to make sure they work or not before you buy anything else.

 

[ACP230]

I shot a Garand in NRA Highpower and used both H4895 and IMR 4895 at various times. I found my best accuracy was with loads that ran at about 2,550 and 2,600 fps.

That worked out to about three quarters of the maximum charges listed in my manuals.
Your mileage may vary, of course.
As stated above, working up to loads is important.

 

[alde]

I use standard RCBS dies to load for my Garand with military brass and they work fine. I use IMR 4895 with 150 grain bullets. I worked up to 46 grains of IMR 4895 and settled on that because it shoots well and it's not hard on the rifle. Never had a function problem using these loads.

 

[brick]

My Garand load is 150 grain bullet with 45 grains of H4895 in commercial brass. It shoots fine for me.

 

[Culina]

I load my LC brass with 46gr of IMR4895 with 147gr to 168gr projectiles. This way I don't have to play around with the meter. I have gone as low as 44gr which was pretty soft shooting but 46gr seems to give the best accuracy and allows the brass to last a little longer, I don't think the paper target can tell the difference.

 

[Gman56]

You do not need small base dies for your garand.

M1 load data (courtesy of NRA)

+1 small base dies are for bolt guns. The small base dies work the brass to hard.Shortens case life.

 

[Ron H.]

I agree with Ron H. 99.9%.
You may not need small base dies depending on which ones you are using.

Are your dies made by RCBS? RCBSs regular dies do not size the same as those from other manufacturers in that they are a little over minimum specs. If you are using dies from the other manufacturers they are the same as the small base dies from RCBS.

Sir, plain ol' RCBS full-length resize dies have worked just fine for my Garands, including both as-issued rifles with GI .30 M2 barrels and heavy comp rifles with Obermeyer and Krieger .308 match barrels. I suppose you might need small-base dies if your rifle's chamber was cut incorrectly, but that would be a "work around" for an odd problem. Otherwise, the Garand does not require small-base dies.

I do prefer a Redding micrometer seating die for match loads, but that's an accuracy thing rather than a function thing.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[Jellybean]

I usually try to make my posts as short as possible, sometimes it creates more confusion than it clears up.

RCBS makes "small base" dies in addition to their regular line of full length sizing dies for calibers that are popular in semi-auto firearms.

These small base dies are the same dimensionally as the dies made by other companies. They don't work the brass any more than dies made by Hornady, Lyman, Lee, Redding and etc.

Their regular full length dies are the odd ones. They are made to give the shooter an option between sizing their brass to minimum specs and not sizing the body at all with neck sizing only.

This makes the ammo more accurate by keeping the bullet more in line with the axis of the bore, but still allows the ammo to work in several firearms and does not restrict it to the one the brass was fireformed in as with neck sizing.

If you are using RCBSs regular full length sizing dies and are not experiencing any problems, don't do anything. Going to another sizing die will probably hurt accuracy. I'm not saying you can't go to another seating die, just keep using the sizing die as long as it works. You can try another to see if it gives better accuracy, but you can mix and match like Ron does.

If you are using RCBSs regular sizing dies and are experiencing problems with chambering, this is when you would either go to a RCBS small base die, or dies made by any other company as they are equivelent.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

With military brass I charge 47.0gr IMR4895 or 46.4gr H4895. Both loads are similar and work well in several Garands they were shot from.

 

[MMA10mm]

Someone (Mike Venturino?) did an article on military 30-06 ammo in a Handloader a couple years ago. He found that in THIS CALIBER, military brass and commercial brass have virtually no difference. Certainly no more than the variation that one would expect between different manufacturers or production lots. The caveat about mil. brass being thicker is much more correct for 223 vs. 5.56 and 308 vs. 7.62.

The factory load that got us through WWII and Korea was M-2 Ball, which was 50.0grs of IMR-4895, BUT, understand that they measured chamber pressure and had a velocity target of 2805 fps that they loaded to, so some lots were loaded with less powder and a few lots had more (but not much - the Garand's gas system shouldn't be forced to swallow the gas generated by more than 50.5grs of powder).

Most people these days consider that the newest of these original rifles are at least 40 years old and some (like one of mine) are up to 70 years old. Therefore, they load them down a little. Generally speaking, you'll find via google, the CMP website, here, or any other place you look at Garand loads, that 90% of the recommendations are between 46.0 to 48.0 grs of IMR 4895. These loads all generally function these old rifles just fine, and you're only losing a hundred FPS or so. (Still a powerful load - as good as a 308.)

Make sure you check the safe functioning of your rifle, lube it correctly, and it wouldn't hurt to replace the recoil spring, since there's no way to know how old / used it is.

I have a thousand prepped LC 55 brass sitting waiting to load too.

 

[Ron H.]

Someone (Mike Venturino?) did an article on military 30-06 ammo in a Handloader a couple years ago. He found that in THIS CALIBER, military brass and commercial brass have virtually no difference. Certainly no more than the variation that one would expect between different manufacturers or production lots. The caveat about mil. brass being thicker is much more correct for 223 vs. 5.56 and 308 vs. 7.62.

Sir, when I was shooting NRA high power (up to a few years ago) I weighed a lot of brass, and my experience differs from the article you cite.

All the R-P and Winchester commercial .30-'06 brass I weighed were invariably much lighter than LC, TW, and SL .30 M2 brass. Federal commercial .30-'06 brass did weigh essentially the same as USGI .30 M2. Unless the manual you're using specifies Federal brass (as Sierra Edition V does) or GI brass, it's wise to drop down 2 grains from the manual's recommended powder charges.

All the USGI 5.56 brass I checked (LC mostly) weighed essentially the same as Winchester and Federal commercial brass. Still wise to check brass weights and to work up loads carefully, but at the end of the process, the loads will probably end up pretty much the same.

The only commercial .308 brass I weighed was Federal, and it (like Federal commercial .30-'06) weighed essentially the same as its GI equivalent. I would not expect this result from other brands of commercial brass, though. When in doubt, check.

So, long story short: The caveat about military brass exists for a reason. It's not true in every single instance, but it's true in more than enough instances to warrant caution. Weigh the brass you're using and compare it to the brass specified in the manual. Don't just take someone else's word for it.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[USSR]

..in THIS CALIBER, military brass and commercial brass have virtually no difference.

+1. The caveat that military brass has less capacity and charge weights should be reduced comes from the .308/7.62x51, and people just ASSUME that it applies to all military brass. In the case of the .30-06, it does not apply, since Federal .30-06 brass weighs more than military '06 brass. Lapua weighs the same as Lake City, and I use the same load in both of them.

Don

 

[Jellybean]

I've read "trusted" sources go both ways on the brass issue, some say reduce it by 1-2 grains, others don't feel it's needed.

I know most military brass is thicker in the web area for use in full auto weapons, but the .30-06 was designed for use in the 1903 Springfield and the autos came in later, so it's hard to say.

However, weighing isn't the best way to check it, in my opinion. Weighing is alright for brass of the same headstamp but what you are looking for is case capacity and weighing may not always give accurate results.

 

[Mudcat]

Actually you want to measure case capacity. Take a full length sized and trimmed case with a expended primer in it and fill with water, dump the water into your scale pan and weigh it a little math will give you your case capacity. This is the only way to measure case capacity, weighing the brass just tells you how much the selected piece of brass weighs.

I usually load 47 grns of 4895 in my Garand loads. This has been a safe load and about 3/4 the max in most reloading manuals. provides great accuracy and is easy on the rifle and brass.

Small base dies are not needed for anything but a tight chambered semi auto. For bolt action rifles all you need to do is neck size after the piece of brass has been fired in the intended rifles chamber. After 10 or so reloads of just neck sizing you may have to bump the shoulder back a couple thousandths. This will give the best brass life and usually the best accuracy.