A Couple of Pre-War 22-40 Masterpieces

[DCWilson]

Bruce, I see you have one of those "Caution" cards too, so I guess they must have been part of contemporary box stuffings. Would those have been standard inclusions with all late-'30s models? I haven't seen one in any of the few boxed guns I have from that era.

 

[RKmesa]

Bruce, I see you have one of those "Caution" cards too, so I guess they must have been part of contemporary box stuffings. Would those have been standard inclusions with all late-'30s models? I haven't seen one in any of the few boxed guns I have from that era.

David:

I have 4 or 5 copies of the Caution cards, several of which were in K-22 Outdoorsman and Reg Mag boxes, so I would guess that they were standard.

One of my pre-war boxes also had a green "guarantee" card. This is the only one that I have seen, so I'm wondering if it was standard, and if so or not so, what period does it relate to... Any thoughts?

 

[Hondo44]

Sweet. I like mine too... (shown here with a First Model)

I picked up a second K-22/40 last summer and it's a little scruffier than my first, but the Pre-War Magnas are serailed to the gun so I guess I'll keep it....

Beautiful and what better reason to get another of one you already have...a variation! Great photos especially with the Marble's knife. A popular field companion of the period!

 

[Sprefix]

I was loving life 'til I spotted this thread. Guess I'll turn over the furniture and see if I can add to the change jar...............And GEEZ Sebago, I thought you was a saddle-tramp and you come out with iron like that!! What can be said.....? WOW!!

 

[Hondo44]

I only have one left, and its part of a pair of guns done special for
Fred Miller, in 1940. Here is the picture from the auction catalog :

The guns are a matched pair, with the special front sight blades, and
unique Roper grips. Perhaps you can see the extra decoration near
the top of the grips. The K22-40 is the upper revolver.

Mike Priwer

Mike,
Gorgeous pair!! Poor Fred missed the boat. What a special .38 that would be if Fred had ordered it with the new 22/40 Micro sight! I love pre war guns with special order factory alterations like these two guns.

 

[mikepriwer]

Jim

That would have been very interesting. The letter specifies that the
guns were built to Miller's specifications, so I guesss its what he
wanted. At the time, he was a foreman, or a manager, so presumably
he knew what he was doing.

Interestingly, Charlie Call was still working at the factory, in 1940.
He'd only been there for 58 years, at that time !

Mike Priwer

 

[bdGreen]

Wow, beautiful guns and the party is over in two days.

Folks, these are the cream of the crop for pre war .22's. That's why they are known as the First Model Masterpiece's.
Ok, here is another one.

enjoy,
bdGreen

 

[Sebago Son]

... And GEEZ Sebago, I thought you was a saddle-tramp and you come out with iron like that!! What can be said.....? WOW!!

I IS A Saddle Tramp....

Tough hauling around all my K-22's in boodle bags...

 

[headwaters]

I'm a little confused, which isn't that unusual, but most often I can sort it out before embarrassing myself in public...which I am probably about to do.

Based upon expert testimony, there were only 1067 of the .22-40s built, and most of the examples here fall into the 684xxx range, and yet bdGreen shows a pair serialed at 691386 and 691387. Did I miss something? Is there a reason for the break in the numbering?

 

[DCWilson]

I'm a little confused, which isn't that unusual, but most often I can sort it out before embarrassing myself in public...which I am probably about to do.

Based upon expert testimony, there were only 1067 of the .22-40s built, and most of the examples here fall into the 684xxx range, and yet bdGreen shows a pair serialed at 691386 and 691387. Did I miss something? Is there a reason for the break in the numbering?

The K-22 Outdoorsman, K-22/40 and .38 M&P were all numbered in the same serial number series. It was not uncommon for the company to produce, say, a few hundred of one model, a few hundreds (or even thousands) more of another model, and then go back go make more of the first one. Sometimes, for reasons of their own, they produced and numbered frames out of strict serial sequence, later going back to fill in the blanks. Serialization studies can be a big deal among S&W collectors.

Another example: there are only 1200-1500 prewar .22/32 Kit Guns, and their numbers are found grouped in small blocks (200-300, say) within a range of about 5000 serial numbers. The other numbers were assigned to other I-frame models (or possibly even not used, which seems to have happened from time to time).

 

[rburg]

Somewhere I've seen a list of serial numbers. If it exists, it must have come from Roy at one point or another. I've got one with a 682,000s and another up in the 692,000s. The gun I've got in the middle is an M&P target. Look at the top of the page and you'll see my gun. Except the caliber is different. Mine even has the HBH, a very rare option on K frame center fires. But I'd trade Dave for his!

 

[DCWilson]

Serial Numbers for K-22/40 Production

The table below is from Neal & Jinks, Smith & Wesson 1857-1945, p. 52:

Serial number ranges are mostly short; I have grouped them by thousands (third digit of the serial number) to make them easier to peruse.The numbers after each range are the number of K-22/40s produced in each serial number block. The total number of guns represented in these serial number blocks comes to 1083, 16 more than the standard reported total of 1067. [ADDENDUM: In Roy Jinks' History of Smith & Wesson (1977), the earliest serial number is said to be 682420, which is 16 higher than the number reported in Neal & Jinks. If the later starting number in the first range is the correct one, then the figure of 1067 appears to be correct.]

682404 - 682469 66 (in the later source, 682420 - 682469 or 50 units)
682909 - 682951 43

683112 - 683210 99

684289 - 684330 42
684401 - 684455 55
684621 - 684628 8
684674 - 684698 25
684729 - 684752 24
684783 - 684858 76
684888 - 684933 46
684984 - 685050 67

686451 - 686500 50
686901 - 686950 50

687551 - 687600 50
687801 - 687850 50

688326 - 688375 50

690703 - 690782 80

691383 - 691432 50

692958 - 693037 80

696395 - 696434 40
696921 - 696952 32


I am not aware of any K-22/40 serial numbers that lie outside the ranges reported in that table. With the addition of a couple of numbers that surfaced in this thread and of which I was previously unaware, there are now 35 K-22/40s whose serial numbers are known to me. (This post was edited to include references to serial numbers reported down through post no. 40 in this thread.) If the known guns are randomly distributed, the average distance between any two serial numbers (adjusting for known gaps between number blocks) should be about 30. The lower limit would of course be 1 (adjacent numbers) and the probable upper limit would be somewhere between 75 and 100. (Just a crude guess; I didn't do any statistical analysis of distances between serial numbers of known guns.)

The known serial numbers are consistent with that kind of distribution, so I imagine the table above is pretty accurate and would not need more than slight adjustment if specimens continue to turn up. There is only one range in the table (the last) in which a numbered gun has not been reported.

EDITED TO ADD: I have been informed of the existence of 696952, so there is now at least one known specimen from each serial number block in the table above.

 

[red9]

Here is #682435. That is 31 numbers above the start of the first block. Does anyone have an earlier one? I bought this at a Greg Martin auction about ten years ago. They offered one a year for at least three years in a row, possibly from the same collection. Mine came in box #690713; I keep hoping that they got switched and someone else on the board bought the opposite combo.

Bob #946

 

[DCWilson]

Bob, thank you. That's two more serial numbers that can be added to the data base even though only one of them is on an observed revolver.

 

[rburg]

I'm not real comfortable saying this, but "Nice box". About 3 or 4 of them so far. I did get slapped once in my younger years for saying that to a young lady. I was happy with the condition of mine. Some of these are about as good as they come.

The estimate of value in the discussion where the guy bought his at $500 is way low. They don't sell for 5 or 6 times that, they have sold over the last year or two in the $8750 range (see David Carroll). He may have come off his asking price, or maybe not.

And I lied up above. My K22 Masterpieces are 686,904 and 692,966 (if anyone's keeping track of known numbers. My M&P target is 682,152, standard config except the HBH.

 

[DCWilson]

And that's two more for the roster. Thank you, Dick.

The last time I saw a K-22/40 publicly offered anywhere, it was a couple of years ago for just over $2000. I have not seen any asking prices from anyone in a long time and figured current prices on these would be about $3000 for a good but not perfect gun with its box. I would not seriously consider a nearly $9000 gun, but at that price I suspect it would be a NIB specimen with all the pieces.

Does David Carroll still have that one? I couldn't find it in his current list.

 

[Dan M]

I have bought 3 of these 22/40's over the years, and I don't own one..... paid $299 out the door for the 1st one, $400 for the 2nd one . Probably the biggest regret I have is not keeping at least one of the 1st 2. oh well

Dan

 

[smith17]

I think I posted this back in '09 on the Association side but thought it might be of some interest now. I had acquired a nice box with some paper contents a couple of years prior but, at that time, failed to notice the serial number on the tape. When I did, it made no sense as I was aware of Roy's serial number range documentation of the K-22/40s. This gun was clearly out of that range. I asked Roy if there could have possibly been one of those guns with the number on this box. He checked and the gun which was native to this box was a 4" M&P shipped to the Ohio State Police in 1941. He said it was not unusual during the war for guns to be shipped in whatever was available. Still looking for the gun but it is a long shot.
Ed

 

[RKmesa]

I have bought 3 of these 22/40's over the years, and I don't own one..... paid $299 out the door for the 1st one, $400 for the 2nd one . Probably the biggest regret I have is not keeping at least one of the 1st 2. oh well

Dan

Dan:

If I remember correctly wasn't one of the 1st two engraved? I tried to find a photo or two but I had no luck...

 

[DCWilson]

Ed, first rate box.

As far as hanging on to these guns is concerned, I can't imagine I'd let ownership of a revolver stand in the way of proper medical attention or care for a family member. But until that day comes, I'd think my new K-22/40 would be one of the last to go in an unforced sell-down. The same would be true of the prewar .22/32 Kit Guns and any of the prewar/postwar .38/44s, both OD and HD versions.