Bullet selection for comp shooting?

[J Rich]

I'm looking to get in to comp. shooting just for fun. I'm researching and watching videos and so on. I'm not worried about how I will shoot or my speed on the first time out. I'm sure the stress of first time jitters, confidence, and so on will effect speed.

Now on to the Question. The steal targets on the ground that fall over when hit. Is there a specific grain bullet to use? I want the lowest grain to reduce recoil, and faster sight recovery. I'd be shooting .40 the lowest grain I can get is 115gr. fmj in reload.

The reason for this question is that I see a few videos where the shooter hit the steal, but it doesn't fall. I don't want the added stress of a target that doesn't fall.

Am I looking at this wrong? let me know. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[RevolverJockey]

The short answer is yes you are looking at it wrong. Unless you are talking about a compensated pistol ie ported, a light bullet exerting the same energy forward doesn't appear to have less recoil than a heavier one. Almost the contrary with the muzzle blast. A standard 180gr or 165gr load will work fine on steel. I use 195gr RN bullets in my .40 caliber revolver because it has less perceived recoil. Whether it is over quickly and more snappy or slower and more pushing, you have you pay the piper.
Lee

 

[J Rich]

Ok revolver.

What about if the pistol is ported? I'm considering porting my pistol. I shoot 165gr. on a regular basis, and have shot some 124gr.. The 124gr. did seem to have a slight less recoil. I have no doubt the 165gr. will do fine on steal. I just want to have a faster sight recovery, less recoil, and still be able to knock down the steal.

 

[jdesro1911]

I don't have much experience with the .40, but with the 9mm, contrary to what you might think, it is actually the heavier bullets that have less felt recoil.

The lighter bullets with their higher velocity have a more snappy recoil, while heavier bullets give more of a "push" than a snap, which some people find easier to shoot.

All .40's feel pretty snappy to me though. And I would think as long as you have good hits, any .40 should be enough to take down the steel, if the targets are calibrated properly.

 

[RevolverJockey]

The thing to remember is sight recovery really only applies to hitting the same target twice quickly. I can shoot an AR around .08 second splits, but in Steel Challenge or a informal steel match, you hit a target and don't need to have the sights back in alignment until you are to the next target. I am pulling the trigger for the next plate before the muzzle even gets there and as the trigger reaches its travel, the sights and plate come into view. Comped guns are for IPSC and USPSA Open division, I see little use for them in steel. Especially as a new shooter to competition. As to steel falling when hit, I have had steel not fall at 185 Power factor, that is just part of the game, it will happen. As a rule, weight has more effect than velocity when it comes to knocking down steel. All falling steel in USPSA is calibrated to be knocked down by a 9mm at 125ish PF (bullet weight x velocity / 1000). Think of it as a 125gr bullet going 1,050 fps to be safe. A 180gr .40 bullet would only have to be going 700 fps to have the same power. I have experimented a lot with minor .40 it has less recoil than 9mm st the same PF. I think people don't do it because of bullet cost. Step one is reload if you don't already, step two is find a shooting/reloading mentor. Either online or locally. Competition shooters at an amateur level are some of the nicest people you could meet.
Lee

 

[handgunner356]

It's true the lighter/faster bullet will give the most advanage with the comp, but as pointed out you shouldn't be needing double taps on steel. That and the fact the heavier bullets seem to work better on steel. I would stick with a 155-165gr in a comped .40 gun myself for steel, only use lighter for something like USPSA.

 

[fltbed]

Well…your right…and your wrong.

If you load your 115 gr. Bullet to the same velocity as a normal 180 gr. one, (say 945 f.p.s.) then yes your right, the lighter bullet will have less felt recoil.

BUT, (and yes it is a big but) the sanctioned shooting games, like USPSA or IDPA, require your ammo to meet a "power factor". (bullet weight X velocity divided by 1000) To make "major" power factor, your load has to be 165 or greater. Most people load to 170 power factor to have a little room for error. The normal 40 S&W 180 gr. load at 945 f.p.s. makes that easily. Drop the bullet weight to 115 gr. and now your velocity will have to be around 1478 f.p.s. to make the same 170 PF.

You mentioned porting. The only game I know of that has knock down steel, and allows porting, is USPSA. (in open division) USPSA open division guns are typically high capacity, (20-28 round magazines) 9mm bore, custom built guns, with optics and compensators. (btw, comps are way better than porting)

For more information, here's a link to the USPSA rule book that will explain all the differences between the divisions.
http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2010HandgunRulesProof3web.pdf

Suffice it to say that in the other five divisions that don't allow porting, heaver bullets dominate the firing line due to less felt recoil and faster follow up shots.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

 

[growr]

Well stated Jeff!
Randy

 

[AllAces]

Recoil

J,

Felt recoil is also a matter of powder choice, if you reload. For example, with the same 200 gr LSWC bullet and approx the same muzzle velocity, a very fast burning powder like N310 or Titewad may have lighter felt recoil vs. a slower burning powder like N320 or Power Pistol.

Most competative shooters that load their own will down load as far as they can and still have accuracy. Lower recoil helps improve the time it takes to get back on target.

Then there are the 'recoil junkies'.

 

[J Rich]

Ok some great info here.

I don't reload my neighbor does, but he does it because he has nothing better to do. He doesn't know all the tech. stuff like you guys are talking about.

The matches I've found local to me have the coarse layout on line to view. Most have paper and steal targets. They usually range between 10-15 paper, and 2-4 steal. Most of the paper require 2 rounds each, and steal till it falls. Requiring to re-sight on same target.

Alright looks to me, seeing as I'm just looking into this for fun. I should stay with a 165-180gr. round. If I did choose to port the slide and barrel I'd be limited to the open div.. I would be using the "dreaded" Sigma .40(I know not the ideal comp gun). I do like it, and am very comfortable with it. It has extensive trigger polishing, and a lightened trigger pull around the 6-7# range.

Thanks for the info and I'm open to more info and a pistol mods.

 

[Titegroups]

Recovery is recovery whether you're shooting the same target or not.

 

[RevolverJockey]

Recovery is recovery whether you're shooting the same target or not.

I don't think anyone I debating that. I think the underlying theme is if you shoot one shot and the next target is 15 degrees away, sight recovery can be .2 seconds (even though it is always way faster) because evn the worlds beat steel shooters have trouble making between targets that quickly. Between you me and the fence post, I would shoot the sigma without putting any money into it and let your experience tell you what direction you want to go with shooting.
Lee

 

[tomcatt51]

I'm looking to get in to comp. shooting just for fun. I see a few videos where the shooter hit the steal, but it doesn't fall.

Yes, it happens, usually because you missed. Take your gun, mags, holter, ammo, eye and ear protection etc and go shoot. Shoot instead of speculating about shooting. You'll have a much better idea what to do, and probably more important, what NOT to do, after shooting a match or two.

Between you me and the fence post, I would shoot the sigma without putting any money into it and let your experience tell you what direction you want to go with shooting.
Lee

Really good advice.

 

[RevolverJockey]

Wanna guess how I came to give such good advice? It really is the archer not the arrow. You can chase that latest technological theoretical advantage, but it really comes down to practice. I sold my Tanfoglio Limited and now shoot better with a SW model 610 that I ever did a bottom feeder. Maybe not always faster, but better both mentally and physically. You don't see the same people on the top each year because they milled off a few ounces or got the latest gizmo. They are there because they get paid to shoot and do so every day.
Lee

 

[J Rich]

Once again thanks for the help. I just want to be as prepared as possible, so I can have as much fun as possible.

 

[kraigwy]

Competition shooters at an amateur level are some of the nicest people you could meet.

That, in a nut shell is why I shoot competition. These people are more then willing to help you, get you started safe, and make sure you have fun.

If it wasn't for the quality of people I meet at matches, I'd stay home and shoot in my back yard.

Remember, the "real" goal is to have SAFE fun. To me, this is what shooting is all about.

Sorry to drift off topic.

 

[TSQUARED]

In my limited experience a alower heavier bullet knocks steel down with more authority than a faster light weight bullet. While the kinetic energy for both may be the same the perceived recoil is also less with the heavier bullet.

 

[Frank46]

When shooting steel plates I used 230gr round nose in my 45. Why, because with one shot you can see and hear the hit. Most of the guys I shot with would shoot the same bullet for that reason. May sound funny but there it is. A lot of other shooters would use the 9mm or 38 super. Results were not as easily come by using the minor calibers. Frank

 

[tomcatt51]

When shooting steel plates I used 230gr round nose in my 45. Why, because with one shot you can see and hear the hit. Most of the guys I shot with would shoot the same bullet for that reason. May sound funny but there it is. A lot of other shooters would use the 9mm or 38 super. Results were not as easily come by using the minor calibers. Frank

I shoot steel challenge with both CF and RF. You can hear the hits even with a rimfire. What's interesting is how much sooner you hear the hit with a higher velocity round. If you're waiting/watching to see the hit that just makes you slow. As soon as the shot breaks you should be looking at the next target.

 

[buck45]

Ahoy JRich. Your description of the "course of fire" is USPSA instead of "Steel Challenge". Steel Challenge has no paper targets. Only steel. I suggest you get your protective eyewear and earplugs and go to a local match. You'll find the members very helpful. You can also go to the USPSA website, uspsa.org, and find the rules for both USPSA and Steel Challenge as USPSA recently bought the rights to the steel game. The game(s) will make a lot more sense if you've read the rules.

Welcome to competition shooting
Ron
2011 USPSA Florida State Revolver Champion