.45 acp cross reference

[Smith357]

OK I changed powders for my .45 acp loads and looked up a load in my Lyman 47 for a 230 grain LRN. The powder I am going to use is Bullseye. The manual listed 5.4 grains of Bullseye as a Max load so I started by making 100 rounds using 5 grains. When I cross referenced this load on the net I see many listing 5 grains as a max load and often times even lower numbers like 4.6 as max. I'm not sure who's numbers to trust my Hornady manual does not list a 230 BE load.

So I am thinking I should tear these down and start over, what say you ?

 

[Kelly Green]

This is odd. I don’t use Bullseye but I checked the Lee Reloading Manual-Second Edition for the .45ACP 230 gr. lead bullet. It lists Bullseye at 4.0 start and 4.0 max.

I also referenced Hornaday’s 230 gr. LRN. They list Bullseye at 4.5 start and 5.7 max. The numbers seem to be all over the place.

 

[ChuckS1]

4.6 grains of Bullseye and a 230 grain FMJ will duplicate the service load at approx 830 fps. My RCBS Cast Bullet Handbook lists the range of bullseye for a 230 grain LRN as 4.5 grains @ 753 fps to a max of 5.0 grains @ 835 fps. Personally, I think you're okay with 5.0 grains, but I would bet your best accuracy will come around the 4.6 point.

 

[venomballistics]

what Ive noticed in 45 auto data is that anything not jacketed isnt taken seriously.
I built my cast 230 hard ball load using both standards .. starting in the wimpafied lead data and working on up into the jacketed data for the weight. the load worked out to be a fine and proper handful of 45.

 

[arjay]

Lyman # 46 shows 4-5 gr of bullseye for a 225 gr lrn

Speer # 10 shows 4.7-5.1 gr of bullseye for a 230 gr lrn

 

[310Pilot]

IIRC, the original military load for 45ACP was 5.0 grains of Bullseye beneath a 230 grain cast lead RN projectile. I usually use 5.0 grains of Bullseye when loading 45 ACP, either with 230 grain RN cast lead or 200 grain cast lead SWC bullets. I have found lighter charges (such as 4.7 grains of Bullseye) to cycle some of my 1911s reliably, but not others. Those with 5.0 grains cycle all of them every time. Loading data for lead bullets in most manuals is for swaged bullets, which are much softer, and usually lead barrels at much lower velocities than do cast bullets of a harder alloy, and the max charges shown for them in manuals often reflects the point at which leading occurred, rather than max pressure. In fact, at the same powder charge, cast lead bullets will have lower pressure and higher velocity than an equal weight jacketed bullet, due to less friction for the cast bullet entering the barrel. For more info, check out the Cast Boolits forum. Hope this helps.

 

[Smith357]

Well instead of tearing apart 100 rounds I guess I can make a few new loads up lighter charged working up to the 5 grains of BE and check for over pressure signs. If they start showings signs at 4.8 then i will tear the 5 grain loads down, if not I might be able to shoot them.

Thanks to all who looked up load data in their books to help guide me along.

 

[jibjab]

"Well instead of tearing apart 100 rounds I guess I can..."
maybe a heavier recoil spring ?

 

[fredj338]

First, you never just plug a load in & do 100. Second, you need more manuals, three current is a good start. Then cross ref w/ powder sites.
You need to learn to do a proper load development. That means avg starting data from 2-3 sources. Load no mor ethan 10rds, then load ten more in 0.1gr increments. Shoot them in order. Note reliability, accuracy, pressure high or low. Work up to average max but not higher. Your gun will tell you what it likes. Loading 100rds w/o testin is a sure date w/ the bullet puller.
I haven't laoded BE in 35yrs, but current data puts you at max depending on OAL. Yes, OAL matter, especially w/ uberfast powders & heavy bullets.

 

[hawgleg]

The all over the place listing may very well have to do with the COL. That being said Bullseye is an excellant powder for low pressure rounds like the 45acp. If you don't have some kinda crazy short COL they should work just fine with 5 grs of Bullseye. If your COL is anywhere close to 1.25 shoot them all day long.

 

[robctwo]

I think you are totally safe. I wouldn't tear down the loads. I have run 5.4 gr Bullseye with 230 gr lead rn through my Les Baer PII for bowling pins without any trouble. 18 pound recoil spring.

 

[rsrocket1]

5.0g Bullseye under a 230g RN has been the standard 1911 for a long time. Newer "lawyered up" manuals probably say it's too much. 4.0g shoots just fine so that's what I use although I've loaded up to 5.0g and they shot fine, just had more recoil with no more accuracy which I find unnecessary.

I agree with the others, NEVER load up 100 rounds unless you have proved that load shoots safely in your gun. Otherwise, you'll likely be pulling 100 rounds which ain't fun.

 

[papajohn428]

I like Bullseye, but have found that if I don't run the loads close to the listed maximums, I get spotty ballistics and a filthy gun in short order. Bullseye, like many other powders, is at its best when run hot enough to build pressure to the proper level. A good crimp is essential to good performance and consistent shotstart pressure. Five grains is my standard load for 230 grain bullets or any type, lead or jacketed. I've gone as high as 5.6, but didn't see any appreciable gains, so I backed it down. All my 45's a sprung for heavier loads, because I like to train realistically.

 

[Smith357]

First thing, I know better than to whip up 100 test loads, I'm not sure what came over me, sometimes I'm just plain stoopid. I hate getting old and senile.

I now have 10 each of rounds starting at 4.5 grains working up to 5 grains. I just need to get to the range and see if they work, or if I come home minus a few fingers.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Guy, you did nothing wrong. The 5.0gr Bullseye load under a 230gr LRN is a staple for most 1911 shooters. Don't tear them down, no use.

The load that I use for the following pictures is one that has won me more accolades at our local PPC competition than any other:

4.7gr of Bullseye, 230gr bullet, your choice and an OAL of 1.250". The loads below happen to be plated bullets, but, it really doesn't matter, honest. By the way, that load will mimic most standard factory loads when run across the chronograph.



My biggest question is this: "What are you going to shoot them out of?"

If it is a Glock, or a compact 1911 where there may be an unsupported chamber issue, um, that may not be so good. If it is a M625, HAVE AT IT AND DON'T LOOK BACK!

You have the web so, here is what you need to do first, check the loading data on the powder manufacturer's website. All of the major players have that available nowadays.

There is another solution, and one that I suggest to everyone that will listen, get a subscription to loaddata.com. It will give you all of the manufacturer's data, all of the bullet maker's data, and some data that was developed by writers that are published in Handloader, Rifle and Successful Hunter magazines. It costs around $30 a year and that is about what a new manual costs too. It makes it REAL handy when you want to work up loads.

FWIW

Have fun, be safe.

 

[Skip Sackett]

p.s. I just looked there to see what I could see and here is something I found:

Warning! Notes: firearm used: Kimber Classic Custom; primer: Federal 150; case: Starline; barrel length: 5" (Handloader Issue #261 - August, 2009)

The 230gr LRN load under this information is a 5.0gr one! AND, it is under the heading of "Economical Midrange Loads"!

Speer #11: 5.1gr maximum

Warning! Notes: cases: Federal; trim-to length: .888"; primers: CCI 300; primer size: Large Pistol; Lyman shell holder: No. 2; cast bullets used sized to .451" dia.; firearm used: Universal Receiver; barrel length: 5"; twist: 1-16"; groove dia.: .450"; 215 grain OAL: 1.185"; 230 grain OAL: 1.170" (Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition)

The load in this reference has a 5.1gr maximum as well.

Warning! Notes: test gun: Entreprise 1911 frame, 5" Bar-Sto barrel, WLP; 180 and 200 gr Semi Wad Cutter OAL: 1.250; 225 Flat Point OAL: 1.205; 230 Round Nose OAL: 1.260; do not exceed maximum loads; never reduce stated overall lengths

This one is 5.1gr as well.

Now, remember, there is a whole "nuther" category when dealing with the 45ACP, the +P version. None of these loads are considered in that realm YET!

FWIW

 

[Revolver-time]

When ever I get close to a max listed load I just put a few down the pipe of my RUGER BLACKHAWK 45COLT/ACP revolver. Then I put a few in the PT 1911 ( my favorite). If all goes well I use them in my other 45 ACP revolvers and 1911s. I load 5gr. in 230LRN all of the time and it works well in my pistols. By the way, I have well over ten thousand rounds in the Taurus.

 

[Skip Sackett]

When ever I get close to a max listed load I just put a few down the pipe of my RUGER BLACKHAWK 45COLT/ACP revolver. Then I put a few in the PT 1911 ( my favorite). If all goes well I use them in my other 45 ACP revolvers and 1911s. I load 5gr. in 230LRN all of the time and it works well in my pistols. By the way, I have well over ten thousand rounds in the Taurus.

I have the exact same firearms!

The Taurus is as good as ANY, yes, ANY factory 1911 out there. From Kimber to Smith to Springfield to............you name it, I'm including it.

The Ruger is a "hoss" too. I bought mine for the 45Colt aspect mostly but it is nice to have that other cylinder too.

Yeah, I like them!

 

[Rule3]

You will be fine.

Lyman Cast 4th edition lists a max of 5.1 for 230 gr TC (different shape but same weight.)

Max of 5.0 for 225 LRN. (close enough)

I have personally shot 5.0 gr of BE with cast LRN in 1911, Sigs and SA XD

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/168951-45-acp-original-loads.html

 

[Smith357]

My biggest question is this: "What are you going to shoot them out of?"

M&P45, Sig 220, and a few N frames.