45 COLT loads for S&W Governor

[Jellybean]

410 slugs are not accurate, they are only .375" in diameter wobbling down a .451" barrel

Foster designed slugs are supposed to wobble and I doubt the .o4-.05" difference between a .410 bore and a .45 cal barrel would normally make much difference. Although, from what I can find on the 'net, the overall poor design of the .45-.410 concept can mess anything up. But then, looking at these firearms and their designs, they weren't intended to be accurate. At least not by any normal definitions of the word.

The excessive bore diameter is probably also what is causing the bad groups of 000 buck loads I've read about, since they are able to start spreading out of alignment inside the barrel. There were good reports about the Winchester PDX load with lead discs though, and it would stand to reason that lead cylinders instead of round balls would do better.

 

[shovelwrench]

I like the suggestions of using a .410 brass case!!!!!

Maybe add some shotgun "cards" to lower case capacity to .45 colt equivalent. SHOULD, allow you to meet the pressures the Colt should generate while eliminating the long bullet jump and blowby.....

.410 BRASS

"cards"

 

[Vortec MAX]

...The excessive bore diameter is probably also what is causing the bad groups of 000 buck loads I've read about, since they are able to start spreading out of alignment inside the barrel. There were good reports about the Winchester PDX load with lead discs though, and it would stand to reason that lead cylinders instead of round balls would do better.

The Federal Handgun 4-pellet 000 buck holds pretty tight patterns from the Governor. I am able to keep all the pellets on an 8.5x11 piece of paper at 10 yards.

The 410 PDX load seems to have more power (recoil), but the pattern is much larger. The "discs" hold a fairly tight pattern, but the BBs scatter quite wide... a reckless amount in my opinion.

Mike

 

[Vortec MAX]

I think Power Pistol or 300MP will do what you want.

I picked up 3 pounds of Power Pistol last week. I will work up a load using some of that and report back.

Mike

 

[Jellybean]

The reviews of the PDX loads were from a site called something like "The truth about guns . com" They had three reviews of the Governor, the first two of which were a little less than complimentary, the third sounded more like a commercial, fence walking, gun mag.

I don't feel self defense firearms require match grade accuracy, but everything they shot had unacceptable accuracy at anything over bedroom distances, some were hardly able to perform at water closet distances.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I went to the range today and tested more loads for the Governor. I retrieved a couple of the Berry's 250 GR FP bullets I fired and noticed that the copper plating had been stripped from most of the area on the sides. I don't know why. It is very strange. The velocities I am pushing are not that high. Maybe the blow-by is melting it off before it gets to the forcing cone???

I also noticed lead splatter on my chronograph and the targets seem to get torn up like shrapnel was hitting them.

Any ideas?

Also, I added quite a few new loads to the first post (up top). I added some loads using magnum primers and some Power Pistol loads, which I had not tried before. There were significant differences in velocity and spread between the standard and magnum primers when using Unique and CFE Pistol. I also really liked the results I got from the Power Pistol loads.

Mike

 

[ggibson511960]

Wadding?

I don't have one of these beasts and don't want one, but if I did and was on a velocity quest I would try some kind of gas seal wadding under a .45 bullet to get it past the oversize chamber. Gas blow-by is bound to be wasting a lot of expanding gas energy as well as gas cutting the heel and shank of the bullet. Why wouldn't a plastic .410 shotshell wad with the petals cut off be a good gas seal, over powder wad? That might be fun to play around with.

 

[DWalt]

I guess it's good that there are those who like the idea of the various .410 - 45 Colt revolvers enough to spend so much time on load evaluation and development.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I guess it's good that there are those who like the idea of the various .410 - 45 Colt revolvers enough to spend so much time on load evaluation and development.

Well, I have to say, as difficult as this has been, I am having second thoughts about the whole idea. The Governor isn't really good at anything. With the right loads, it is fairly effective with buckshot and might take a snake or a grouse up close with bird shot. The 45 ACP performance is non-existent. And the 45 Colt performance isn't much better. That Barnes load was decent.

I might just sell it and buy a smaller 44 Magnum. I am finding that I really like that cartridge. It is very versatile.

Mike

 

[Vortec MAX]

I took some of the loads I worked up using Berry's plated bullets and loaded XTP bullets instead. The results were excellent and met my initial goals. Here are the XTP loads I tested: ( I also added this data to my original post)


Hand Loads Using Hornady 250 GR XTPs:

All loads below used Starline cases, primers as noted, Hornady 250 GR XTP bullets, an OAL of 1.595", and used a Lee FCD with a light crimp (firm contact + 1/2 turn).

Unique 8.8 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 785 FPS - 344 ft-lbs - 43 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 11.5

Unique 9.0 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 823 FPS - 378 ft-lbs - 41 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 12.7 <-- good load

Unique 9.2 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 830 FPS - 384 ft-lbs - 45 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 13.3 <-- good load

CFE Pistol 9.2 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 779 FPS - 338 ft-lbs - 44 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 13.9

Power Pistol 9.0 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 800 FPS - 357 ft-lbs - 17 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 5.6 <-- excellent load!

Power Pistol 9.2 Grains - CCI 300 Primer - 825 FPS - 379 ft-lbs - 23 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 7.3 <-- excellent load!


Observations:

Power Pistol powder seems to stand out. It produces very consistent velocities, good accuracy (as good as can be expected from the Governor), and does not seem to care much if you use standard or magnum primers.

Unique and CFE-Pistol require magnum primers in the short barreled Governor to get the velocities to be consistent.

None of the XTP loads tested showed any pressure signs.

The XTP loads were all fairly pleasant to shoot. I do not think any recoiled as much as many of the 410 defensive offerings do.

The XTP loads were far more accurate than the Berry's plated loads.

Plated bullets are not ideal for use in the Governor due to the oversize cylinder bore which lets blow-by peel the plating off.


Disclaimer: Some of these loads are sure to produce more than the SAAMI allowed 14,000 PSI. The Governor is rated for 45 ACP, which has an allowable pressure of 21,000 PSI. Please refer to your loading manuals to determine if these loads are safe for your firearm. I based some of my charges on an article in Handloader magazine volume 246, which lists data for 20,000 PSI loads. They show a max Unique charge of 10.0 grains (with standard primer) and a max Power Pistol charge of 9.5 (with standard primer). They were also using 280 grain cast bullets.


Mike

 

[dannyabear]

Most of the problem is caused by the long cyclinder and the gap the bullet makes to reach the barrel. For my judge, I have used brass 410 shells and also 444 Marlin brass blown out to 45 cal. They put the bullet closed to the barrel. Because the 444 brass is thicker it requies a good load to make it seal to the cyclinger.

 

[David R]

Thank you for the info. What size groups at what distance?

Looks like that handgun is best for home defense with buck shot.

David

 

[Vortec MAX]

Thank you for the info. What size groups at what distance?

Looks like that handgun is best for home defense with buck shot.

David

The groups were not that small. They were maybe 4" at 10 yards. My smallest was probably 3". My Governor shoots high and left. I would like to get a taller front sight and correct the point of impact.

I think 379 ft-lbs is formidable in 45 Colt. It is on par with a 45 ACP Federal HST round fired from a 4.4" barrel. It would certainly be effective on two-legged varmints. Still a little light for bear, but better than most factory offerings.

Mike

 

[Vortec MAX]

The fact you are using a 250gr bullet and trying to compare your ammo to the factory ammo using a 225gr bullet is also a problem.

I was comparing energy, not velocity. I am after about 380 ft-lbs with the heavier bullet. I think the heavier bullet would be more effective against critters that might want to eat me.

Hornady has a 200gr XTP/HP bullet w/cannelure you can use in your 45 Colt.
Hornady XTP Bullets 45 Cal (451 Diameter) 200 Grain Jacketed Hollow

I bought some of those to try out and found that they DO NOT have a cannelure as pictured on the box. I was disappointed.

Mike

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I bought some of those to try out and found that they DO NOT have a cannelure as pictured on the box.

All of Hornady's .452" bullets have a cannelure except the 250gr FTX. The .451" do not. Yeah, they should ditch the pictures on the boxes.

.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I worked up some 45 Colt Governor loads using WIN 231 powder and took them to the range today. I had four that used the Berry's 250 GR FP and one that used Hornady 250 GR XTPs.

Loads used new Starline cases, primers as noted, an OAL of 1.595" and were crimped with a LEE FCD (firm contact + 5/8 turn on Berry's and firm contact + 1/2 turn on XTPs).

Here are the results: ( I will also add this data to my original post up top)


Hand Loads Using Berry's 250 GR FPs:

WIN 231 7.3 Grains - CCI 300 Primer - 637 FPS - 226 ft-lbs - 53 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 16.7

WIN 231 7.3 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 663 FPS - 245 ft-lbs - 38 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 11.3

WIN 231 7.5 Grains - CCI 300 Primer - 668 FPS - 249 ft-lbs - 36 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 10.6

WIN 231 7.5 Grains - CCI 350 Primer - 687 FPS - 263 ft-lbs - 33 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 11.0


Hand Load Using Hornady 250 GR XTPs:

WIN 231 8.0 Grains - CCI 300 Primer - 775 FPS - 335 ft-lbs - 23 FPS Spread - Std Dev of 7.4 <-- very consistent load!

I backed off my crimp on the plated bullets but was still seeing evidence of the plating peeling off. I might back off some more on future loads to see if I can prevent that.

Mike

 

[Vortec MAX]

I tested a Hornady 410 load from the Governor and thought I would share the results in this post.

410 Gauge 2-1/2" Load Tested:

Hornady Critical Defense - Triple Defense (244.1 GR total payload) - 761 FPS - 315 ft-lbs

This load consists of one polymer tipped bullet shaped projectile weighing 115.2 grains and two buckshot weighing 64.45 grains each. This was only a six-shot string. I usually shoot a 10-shot string. I determined the weight of the projectiles by dissecting a round and weighing the components.

I shot five rounds at an 8.5x11 piece of paper 10 yards away and all 15 projectiles struck the paper. Not a bad grouping for that distance.

I will also add this to the big post at the beginning of this thread to consolidate all the info in one post.

Mike

 

[gen3guy]

Your XTP loads with Unique are about what I would expect. That 2.75" barrel is probably robbing you of about 100 FPS. I get about 870 FPS with 8.5 Gr. of Unique in a 5.5" Vaquero. Stop testing with plated bullets. You'll only get more confused.

 

[Vortec MAX]

I added more data to the original post, this time in table form. New powders tried includes Universal, AutoComp, and TiteGroup.

Enjoy!

Mike

 

[Rule3]

I added more data to the original post, this time in table form. New powders tried includes Universal, AutoComp, and TiteGroup.

Enjoy!

Mike

Wow, you did a lot of work. I know what it takes to get all that data and even though I do not own a Governor appreciate all the time and effort put in the results. Good job!

PS: Folks go to the first post