My first S&W with a lock

[tom32]

I don't mean this to be a lock/no lock post but I never thought I would own a S&W with a lock. It wasn't necessarily because I object to them and their origins, which I still mildly do but that's another story, but more that there wasn't anything being offered that i couldn't do without.
I just picked up a 431PD which is forcing me to rethink my previous position.
I have today so far I am impressed. The fit and finish are first rate. This seems to me to be the best kept secret in an affordable S&W 32 H&R.
I'm going to have to read up and learn more about these, but for now I am so happy with it that I have now found myself thinking about the Night Guard series, maybe a 2" 44 special.


431PD with it's older cousin 631

 

[10mmillie]

Nice. I don't like the locks either but it's mainly a look thing to me. I've owned several with locks and they have all worked as if it wasn't there.

 

[deanodog]

Those are nice regardless of the IL. I have had 625s, 21-4s and 22-4s with ILs and they are excellent guns.

 

[TSQUARED]

While the presence of the lock may be visually unappealing I have never seen any problems with the mechanism. My 627 has >10000 rounds throughit without any failure and several other S&W's have >5000 rounds through them without any failure.

 

[brian smith]

Smith and Wesson lock

Just bought a new S&W 638 38 special from Cabelas. Got home dry fired it 3 times the gun completely locked up. Tried using the key but did nothing. Cylinder still opens but cannot cock gun and trigger is locked. Brought it back to Cabelas and now it's being shipped to S&W. Because of Federal law I am not able to get money refunded. I called S&W and spoke with David and asked if he has seen this before. He said it doesn't happen that often. We will see what happens next. Needless to say I'm not very happy with my new this self protection weapon that failed day one before even shooting a live round. I just joined this forum today cause I have been reading about people saying they dont no of anybody that has had this problem. Well sad to say but I am one. I will be contacing S&W tomorrow and will update this forum when I know more. March 17 2012

 

[crofoot629]

What happened to the STICKY from Mas Ayoob and his documented experiences with lock failures. I can’t seem to locate it.

I hate to admit it, but I’m afraid to buy any new S&W, lock or no-lock.

Emory

 

[Tigerjeebs]

Federal law against returning firearms? Weird.

I returned two non working NIB Taurus 605s to the store before buying my 60-14. This was last month, I now have 1300 357 rounds through my IL 60 and it has worked perfectly. Btw, hand loading is the only way to roll for shooting 357s. 4 cents per round, lovely.

 

[scooter123]

Keep in mind that store was Cabela's, an outfit renowned for it's high prices, rotten customer service, and personel who either have never recieved any training or who are just plain liers. Brian will learn and that 638 is likely the last firearm he'll ever purchase from Cabala's.

I'm one of those who can report zero issues with the lock. However with my wrist issues I'm limited to shooting heavier revolvers where the lock doesn't have much of a history of issues.

If my wrists were healthy enough I could tolerate shooting one of the featherweights I'd just remove the lock. It only takes about 5 minutes and I think legal concerns about removing the lock are unfounded and overblown in terms of Defense use.

 

[kennyb]

Just bought a new S&W 638 38 special from Cabelas. Got home dry fired it 3 times the gun completely locked up. Tried using the key but did nothing. Cylinder still opens but cannot cock gun and trigger is locked. Brought it back to Cabelas and now it's being shipped to S&W. Because of Federal law I am not able to get money refunded. I called S&W and spoke with David and asked if he has seen this before. He said it doesn't happen that often. We will see what happens next. Needless to say I'm not very happy with my new this self protection weapon that failed day one before even shooting a live round. I just joined this forum today cause I have been reading about people saying they dont no of anybody that has had this problem. Well sad to say but I am one. I will be contacing S&W tomorrow and will update this forum when I know more. March 17 2012

what "federal law"prevents the return of a firearm??

 

[larry8]

Knowing Cabelas, they probably didn't want to give you your money back. It's not illegal as far as I know, just requires more paperwork and they didn't want to do it or give up the profit they made on the gun.

 

[Minnehaha]

My Smiths With ILs

My 649 and 438 revolvers both function perfectly, and are beautiful products in terms of fit and finish. I would not hesitate a minute to buy another new S&W product. I don't use, worry about, or ever even think about the locks - they are irrelevant. I'm sure that people that report problems are being truthful, but if you read the different forums there are millions of various problems with guns that are discussed that have nothing to do with the S&W IL.

 

[brian smith]

Called S&W this morning and spoke with Mark. I explained that Cabelas is sending the 638 back to them. I asked if the Internal lock could be removed and he replied, How do you know that it's the Internal lock? I replied I don't but have been on line trying to figure out what could have happened. He replied: There has never been an internal lock failure documented and that on line threads such as this one and others are spreading bogus information. He said it could possible be a small piece of metal, or spring etc but definately not the Internal lock. I replied that since neither one of us really know we should not disount the IT yet.
He said that it will take about 8 to 10 days and that I will recieve paper work describing the problem. Folks all I know is that my new gun is broke and I dont having any recourse except let S&W fix the problem.

 

[blujax01]

I'm sorry your new gun isn't working. And I am certain it will be fixed to your satisfaction, which helps exactly zero because something new shouldn't fail out of the box.
Don't be so quick to blame the IL. Lots of angry old men posting for the past 20 years about it which will change nothing.
I have to believe the S&W rep. Too many "friend of a friend" stories and no real evidence.

 

[larry8]

I somehow think S&W cannot remove the lock legally if the gun was made with one. You may have to remove it yourself or have a gunsmith remove it.

 

[UDR2]

Right now we do not know for sure what caused the problem. As I wrote in another post, the likelihood of them locking up due to the IL is remote. There are Very Few documented cases. But there are a few.

Confirmed: Smith & Wesson 686 Internal Lock Failed | The Truth About Guns

The odds of a malfunctioning IL resulting in a lock up are probably less than the odds of encountering a squib load. But statistics are a funny thing. If a lock up happens to, let's guess and say, only one gun in a 100,000, if yours is that one gun, than for you the odds of it happening will be 100%.

Removing the lock is a piece of cake... takes no more than 10 minutes. So why not perform a very simple maneuver to reduce the odds of a malfunction?

I never quite understood why Smith & Wesson put in those locks in the first place. I think it had more to do with a goof up from their marketing department than their legal department. After all, the IL is a lot slicker than the clunky locks that come with other brands of guns; and if S&W was so concerned about the legal aspects of the IL, then why do they manufacture some models today (such as the 442, and 642) without the ILs?

The IL was a solution to a problem that didn't exist, and that solution has cause them lots of grief ever since.

 

[OldBlood]

My second "lock" gun. If I could choose, I would have it without, but it doesn't bother me that much. If they aren't putting them on all Smith's, I wish they would take them off the Classics. Really looks out of place on those guns.

 

[jhde69]

Brian I'm sure the revolver will come back from S & W in fine shape. I would not purchase another firearm from Cabelas thay do seem to be overpriced if you can find a small gun shop give them the business. Once thay get to know you you will have the benefit of a small shop. Mine called twice this year 10-5 nickle 2in bbl,dirty for $300, and a colt agent for $349. 1st issue agent like new with ugly grips. I'm not sure my wife likes the phone calls as much as I do.

 

[mbliss57]

I bought and sold my only IL gun. The SW 500. But it had nothing to do with the IL. The 500 was a great gun. Awesome actually. But as my body is older than my heart... I was finding my right hand severely bruised for a week after a night of SW 500's. So after about 2 months of self inflicted abuse I sold it for $1 more than I bought it for. I used the $1K to fund my Model 29. Now that I can handle just fine.
I will buy more new Smith's when I need them. My next new S&W will probably be the 625 PC. I don't like the lock or the reason they were put on. But it won't keep me from owning an IL gun.

 

[oliveview]

You know, this seems like as good a place as any to ask. But do any of you very knowledgeable S&W veteran scholars know why the company ultimately added such a massively intrusive locking system, in such plain sight on their marque revolvers?

For instance, Springfield Armory uses an innocuous MSH lock. H&K use a completely hidden lock inside the mag well on some of their pistols. Ruger utilizes a lock inside the grip panels of some (all?) of their revolvers.

So, how is it that Smith went the route they did?

 

[jaysan60]

I think you will like the 32 H&R, lock or no lock! I picked up a 432PD to go with my model 16-4 and that led to a Ruger single six Bisley in 32 that led to another single six Birdshead... All these have led me to start reloading to keep them fed.