Its your duty to concealed carry (aurora theater shooting)

[Evil One]

This MAY sound harsh.
The guy started off down front and went up in front of the movie screen according to some reports.
Tossed some kind of smoker or tear gas.
if a person who carried had engaged him, he was wearing light kevlar armor, it could have been a game changer.
His armor may have stopped the round, but he darn sure would have felt it.
The guy shot 71 people in under 2 minutes.
If a person engaged him, caused him to decide that it may not be the best day for these shenanigans, and he left... would the potential of hitting 1-2 bystanders have been worth the potential of keeping 50 of those people from being shot?


Jim

 

[Martimus]

Nutnfancy is the worst thing to happen to CC and the gun community as a whole with his whole sheep dog thing.

Now... now... he does tend to think like a typical Lieutenant Colonel! Lets be grateful he didn't make it to full bird before retiring from the AF... then he'd really think he knew everything!!

 

[stacy06]

I run a restaurant less than 3 miles from where this happened. Some of my staff went to see Batman that night. This is their usual theater of choice. Thankfully the show was sold out, and they went elsewhere. Some of them still lost friends in that theater. I spent all of yesterday donating, and delivering, food to the Aurora PD and the local blood bank. The local community is in shock, to say the least. If I was in there would I have used my gun? I think so. But truly, I don't know. Because I WASN'T there. All I know for sure is lives were lost. Many more were changed forever.

 

[Kanewpadle]

This MAY sound harsh.
The guy started off down front and went up in front of the movie screen according to some reports.
Tossed some kind of smoker or tear gas.
if a person who carried had engaged him, he was wearing light kevlar armor, it could have been a game changer.
His armor may have stopped the round, but he darn sure would have felt it.
The guy shot 71 people in under 2 minutes.
If a person engaged him, caused him to decide that it may not be the best day for these shenanigans, and he left... would the potential of hitting 1-2 bystanders have been worth the potential of keeping 50 of those people from being shot?


Jim

IF is a mighty big word. The odds were greatly in his favor. So great that I would have protected myself and family. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[cbr6864]

Look at the LA bank robbery how many cops did it take to finally put those two down? To engage a target who has the element of surprise and superior fire power is insane. Id say im a pretty damn good shot at 7yds I can cover my group with a quarter but that is at the range. You are responsible for every single round leaving your gun.

Its easy to say I would have done this or that while sitting behind a keyboard. I have 6 years recent active, all those guys you talk all kinds of tough froze up when just a few flyers came within 25yds.

 

[mc5aw]

Show me the non-LEO/military mortal who can definitely say he would have had the presence of mind to act calmly and courageously in the face of that madness, and I'll show you someone who is full of himself and full of something else.

 

[mlapaglia]

I live less than 10 miles from this theater. I am not sure what I would have done if I had been there. A 9mm shield with 2, 7 shot mags of 9mm Luger 124 gr FTX® Critical Defense® Ammo and no body armor, no laser and no guts. I believe I would have tucked tail and ran. Outgunned is outgunned. Im stupid but not a total idiot.

 

[S&WOkie]

Show me the non-LEO/military mortal who can definitely say he would have had the presence of mind to act calmly and courageously in the face of that madness, and I'll show you someone who is full of himself and full of something else.

Generalize much?

 

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

Has anyone asked their Wife what she would do IF she had a gun in this situation?

I did over lunch today. She is a SURVIVOR and can think on her feet.

She realizes that IF she HAD to engage and body shots weren't working, she'd try for the head.

She indicated that a M-58 reworked for HER might be a Nice Gift.

Course, we have to get Hawaii laws changed from May to Shall Issue.

My Wife has saved my *** in more than one of my medical emergencies.

 

[blujax01]

This MAY sound harsh.
The guy started off down front and went up in front of the movie screen according to some reports.
Tossed some kind of smoker or tear gas.
if a person who carried had engaged him, he was wearing light kevlar armor, it could have been a game changer.
His armor may have stopped the round, but he darn sure would have felt it.
The guy shot 71 people in under 2 minutes.
If a person engaged him, caused him to decide that it may not be the best day for these shenanigans, and he left... would the potential of hitting 1-2 bystanders have been worth the potential of keeping 50 of those people from being shot?


Jim

Would you be happy knowing you may have saved lives while you spent the rest of yours in jail? Because between carrying illegally and killing innocents, that is what would have happened.

 

[TexasArmed]

Don't know about how your states' laws are written, but here in North Carolina, concealed carry is not allowed anywhere that charges admission, whether the establishment has a "no guns" sign posted or not. I thought about this when I heard about the Aurora shootings today, and how if it had happened at a movie theater here, I couldn't have legally been carrying and had an opportunity to defend myself and others when the firing began. So, the decision now: when do I break the law, knowing I am a responsible citizen, and carry my Shield 40 in my pocket into a movie theater, state fair, football stadium, or the like?

In Texas it would not have been illegal to carry in the theatre unless there was a 30.06 sign, even with a gun buster sign. I think we have a duty to carry where we can, but we also have a duty NOT to patronize places where concealed carry is restricted. Why should we give them our business? Does anyone think the theatres there will be anxious to accept legal liability for inadequate security? And while they had all these victims in an enclosed area, where a predator who knew nobody would be armed to stop him since there were no gun signs, and made sure he himself would not be shot by wearing body armour? If I were sitting on a civil jury I would vote for the maximum monetary award allowed under the law for the theater not providing adequate security and forbidding those with a legal CHL or CWP to carry there. And at election time I would hold legislators responsible for placing areas that charge admissions off limits to permit holders. Thats my opinion.

 

[MP22]

Aloha,

Has anyone asked their Wife what she would do IF she had a gun in this situation?

I did over lunch today. She is a SURVIVOR and can think on her feet.

She realizes that IF she HAD to engage and body shots weren't working, she'd try for the head.

She indicated that a M-58 reworked for HER might be a Nice Gift.

Course, we have to get Hawaii laws changed from May to Shall Issue.

My Wife has saved my *** in more than one of my medical emergencies.

Sorry....that might be ok in a perfect world where no one shoots back....not even close to reality. In all that chaos..."the body shots are not working, now I will try for a head shot." No...sorry.

 

[DeadWhiteGoose]

Would the same have happened in a place like AZ? You may not be able to carry in a theater but any other large crowd related event might be avoided. If 20% of the people were carrying it would leave a lone gunman pretty out numbered. And 20% is probably a pretty low estimate for AZ carry.

 

[blujax01]

Would the same have happened in a place like AZ? You may not be able to carry in a theater but any other large crowd related event might be avoided. If 20% of the people were carrying it would leave a lone gunman pretty out numbered. And 20% is probably a pretty low estimate for AZ carry.

Thanks to forum member McBear for the GAO Report, that information is available - and it may surprise you.

Per the 2010 census, Az. adult population is 4,572,000.
As of 12/31/2011, there are 163,000 valid CCW permits in Arizona.

Or roughly 3.6% of the adult population.

Legally, that is.

 

[TexasArmed]

Would the same have happened in a place like AZ? You may not be able to carry in a theater but any other large crowd related event might be avoided. If 20% of the people were carrying it would leave a lone gunman pretty out numbered. And 20% is probably a pretty low estimate for AZ carry.

You might be right about that % in Arizona. In Texas when I got my CHL in 2010, the records indicated that in either 2008 or 2009, there were 400,000 with gun permits, 40,000 of those women, and the probability of any one person having the permit was 4%. Might be different now. Tweny% sounds like a high
estimate to me. (legal carry that is).

 

[venomballistics]

Sorry....that might be ok in a perfect world where no one shoots back....not even close to reality. In all that chaos..."the body shots are not working, now I will try for a head shot." No...sorry.

your correct in that what we think we will do and what we really will do in the clutch are rather dissimilar.
thing is ... no one tried while people died and the sidearms all slept in the safe.

 

[Lost Lake]

Would you be happy knowing you may have saved lives while you spent the rest of yours in jail? Because between carrying illegally and killing innocents, that is what would have happened.

Would I be happy in jail knowing I saved lives???

You bet I would.

 

[Lost Lake]

Sorry....that might be ok in a perfect world where no one shoots back....not even close to reality. In all that chaos..."the body shots are not working, now I will try for a head shot." No...sorry.

This joker walked into a theater and caused a chaotic scene with the tear gas. The theater was a place that banned concealed carry. He definitely isn't planning on someone shooting back.

If someone started shooting at him he may have ducked for cover. He may have been wounded or killed. Either scenario would be better than letting him just fire at will.

 

[OFT II]

You might be right about that % in Arizona. In Texas when I got my CHL in 2010, the records indicated that in either 2008 or 2009, there were 400,000 with gun permits, 40,000 of those women, and the probability of any one person having the permit was 4%. Might be different now. Tweny% sounds like a high
estimate to me. (legal carry that is).

Yes, but take a look at Utah. It shows to have 19% of the population licensed. My hat goes off to the Beehive State.

 

[681ismyfavorite]

the movie patrons obeyed colorado state law. they went unarmed in a corral and presented themselves as easy pickin's.

sad, that descent folks obey a law and leave themselves open for victimization by the hands of the state.