Invictus357
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I agree.
There are people out there who think even H&K is junk.
Just goes to show you can't please everyone.
Model 686 v. 1911
- Thread starter Philosophaster
- Start date
I agree.
There are people out there who think even H&K is junk.
Just goes to show you can't please everyone.
Interesting thread and welcome to the forum. As you can see (read) there are a lot of opinions to go through, and all of them valid. For someone new to shooting I think a revolver is the best choice and any 686 is a good one. When you feel comfortable enough to move up to a semi auto pistol there is a lot more going on with this type of pistol. The 1911 platform is iconic and with so many companies making them now it can be mind boggling just choosing one. Being and old guy, when I started out there wasn't this many choices so I started out with a Colt. And since Colt has been making them longer than anyone else it's still a great choice. I just recently strayed from Colt and bought a S&W E series for $710 and found it to be a really good 1911. So take your time, do your research and if possible try several range rental pistols. I'm sure eventually you will own and enjoy several pistols. Choosing what to buy narrows down to personal preference as your experience grows, you're off to a good start.
Attachments
A revolver requires none of these three things.
You could argue lubrication...but you don't need to open up the sideplate on a revolver for cleaning and lubrication for thousands upon thousands of rounds.
Personally I dispise sweeping, stepping on, searching for, and picking up brass trown all over the place. Autoloaders just aren't as accurate as wheelguns, there are expensive exceptions.
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OP
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Decision Made
Thanks for all the thoughts and advice. I have come to a decision and I will be getting a 686. At the end of the day I really do love the revolver platform and the maintenance/disassembly of the 1911 seems like a bit much for me to handle.
With this decision made a couple of follow up questions. Should I save for longer and go new or get a good quality used gun? If I go used what should I look out for and how much do you think is a fair price for a 686 4" barrel?
Thanks for all the thoughts and advice. I have come to a decision and I will be getting a 686. At the end of the day I really do love the revolver platform and the maintenance/disassembly of the 1911 seems like a bit much for me to handle.
With this decision made a couple of follow up questions. Should I save for longer and go new or get a good quality used gun? If I go used what should I look out for and how much do you think is a fair price for a 686 4" barrel?
The easy answer will be to get both:
As you're starting with a great revolver, the logical next step is the 686.
Out here, you can find decent ones for $500 + or -
While revolvers are my first love, I'd never want to be without a 1911, having carried one for most of 23 years in the Army.
That said, 1911s aren't everyone's cup o'tea. before going to that platform, you'd be wise to check out the many other options out there.
As you're starting with a great revolver, the logical next step is the 686.
Out here, you can find decent ones for $500 + or -
While revolvers are my first love, I'd never want to be without a 1911, having carried one for most of 23 years in the Army.
That said, 1911s aren't everyone's cup o'tea. before going to that platform, you'd be wise to check out the many other options out there.
Waldo
Member
There are a lot of replies that make sense to me. I think you will find that question is like going to a car show and asking what is better, Ford or Chevy? I may have missed it in another reply, but I think you should start looking for a .22 pistol. If you have settled on the 686, you might try to find a K.22. You can shoot a .22 for less then you can reload .38s.
You really just have to get both. I say go with the 1911 now and save up for a 686.
I have a Springfield 1911 GI and it is absolutely fantastic. Will keep it my whole life.
Though, I have invested probably close to $1,000 in it....
...in ammo
I have a Springfield 1911 GI and it is absolutely fantastic. Will keep it my whole life.
Though, I have invested probably close to $1,000 in it....
...in ammo
Fat Old Guy
Member
All the guys who tell you that you need to continually tinker with your 1911 or that you need to spend big bucks are full of it or else they bought pieces of **** to begin with.
The 1911 that I shoot the most is a Norinco that I bought back in the 90s for the outrageous price of $299 (I think). The only thing that I did to it was to change the sear spring to bring the trigger pull down into the human range. No other mods and I've used it extensively for bowling pin and steel plate matches. No problems.
I have a Colt Mk IV Series 70 that has never given me a problem and has fired hundreds if not thousands of rounds.
I have an Argentine Sisteme Colt Modelo 1927 that is still stock and has never given me a hiccup. Ever.
I don't own a 686 but I'm sure that it is a great gun. I love revolvers and have more than a few. I also love 1911s.
I am a big fan of revolvers for new shootes so my advice is to get the revolver, learn to shoot well enough that sight alignment and trigger control are second nature. After that, get the 1911.
BTW, total invesment in all three 1911s is less than a grand.
Oh . . . almost forgot. The Colt has been modded, I put snakeskin grips on it. The 1927 now has rosewood grips so it isn't box stock either.
The 1911 that I shoot the most is a Norinco that I bought back in the 90s for the outrageous price of $299 (I think). The only thing that I did to it was to change the sear spring to bring the trigger pull down into the human range. No other mods and I've used it extensively for bowling pin and steel plate matches. No problems.
I have a Colt Mk IV Series 70 that has never given me a problem and has fired hundreds if not thousands of rounds.
I have an Argentine Sisteme Colt Modelo 1927 that is still stock and has never given me a hiccup. Ever.
I don't own a 686 but I'm sure that it is a great gun. I love revolvers and have more than a few. I also love 1911s.
I am a big fan of revolvers for new shootes so my advice is to get the revolver, learn to shoot well enough that sight alignment and trigger control are second nature. After that, get the 1911.
BTW, total invesment in all three 1911s is less than a grand.
Oh . . . almost forgot. The Colt has been modded, I put snakeskin grips on it. The 1927 now has rosewood grips so it isn't box stock either.
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forestswin
Member
Philosiphaster - the other new guy here - go new with your first 686
that's the advice I got when I got mine last year - no doubt you'll love it. Then when you go for your second 686 [after you get your 1911] you'll know the gun and what to look for when shopping used. I have a 6" 686 with a Hogue grip - now I want a 3" or 4" and second 6" only the older style with the wood grips. I find myself drooling over the photo's of 3,4 & 5 gun collections the guys post on this forum.
that's the advice I got when I got mine last year - no doubt you'll love it. Then when you go for your second 686 [after you get your 1911] you'll know the gun and what to look for when shopping used. I have a 6" 686 with a Hogue grip - now I want a 3" or 4" and second 6" only the older style with the wood grips. I find myself drooling over the photo's of 3,4 & 5 gun collections the guys post on this forum.
Jayhawkhuntclub
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Philosphaster: First off congratulations on picking two fantastic guns to choose from. They are both classics.
The only problem I have with the 1911 platform is that I am a reloader. I hate trying to find brass off the ground. So I would probably pick the 686. But either a decent 1911 (doesn't need to be $1000+ IMHO) or a 686 is a no lose choice.
The only problem I have with the 1911 platform is that I am a reloader. I hate trying to find brass off the ground. So I would probably pick the 686. But either a decent 1911 (doesn't need to be $1000+ IMHO) or a 686 is a no lose choice.
Like many others, I own and enjoy both. For me the bottom line question is, "will it be used for PD?" If the answer is yes, then I would go with the 686 (one of my favorite revolvers). MY PD gun was a surplus (mfg in 1917) 1911 from about 1967 to 2007. It never failed to feed but if you shake it, it soulds like marbles in a tin can. Accuracy was problematic.
With 1911's (unless they are of the Double Eagle variety) you have two choicess: cocked and locked (combat style) or uncocked. Either way more than one mation is required to fire. I'm pretty groggy in the middle of the night.
My 686 is real simple. One motion sends a bullet downstream. I understand that...my wife understands that. No feeling for safeties or to find where the hammer is. If I haven't hit my target in 6 rounds, the 7th probably wouldn't make a big difference.
If you are plinking or precision paper punching 1911's are great. They can be incredibly accurate or made reliable enough to fire after being dropped into a stream... or anywher in between. IMHO. Sorry if I've offended anyone.
With 1911's (unless they are of the Double Eagle variety) you have two choicess: cocked and locked (combat style) or uncocked. Either way more than one mation is required to fire. I'm pretty groggy in the middle of the night.
My 686 is real simple. One motion sends a bullet downstream. I understand that...my wife understands that. No feeling for safeties or to find where the hammer is. If I haven't hit my target in 6 rounds, the 7th probably wouldn't make a big difference.
If you are plinking or precision paper punching 1911's are great. They can be incredibly accurate or made reliable enough to fire after being dropped into a stream... or anywher in between. IMHO. Sorry if I've offended anyone.
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I have both a 686 and a Kimber 1911 (in my opinion Kimber is the best stock 1911 maker).
My suggestion is go for the 686. I enjoy the feel of it so much more. My friends like my Kimber better so I guess it is just a preference. Both are outstanding Guns I believe the best in each category but I just like shooting the 686 more.
1. There is something to be said about having two guns with different functions but still use the same ammo.
2. Since the 686 can use .38 aswell its cheaper than .45 acp .357 cost about the same as .357 but I generally go through ammo slower with a revolver than a semi auto.
you really can't go wrong with either. I would suggest considering all factors as to which you would shoot more.
My suggestion is go for the 686. I enjoy the feel of it so much more. My friends like my Kimber better so I guess it is just a preference. Both are outstanding Guns I believe the best in each category but I just like shooting the 686 more.
1. There is something to be said about having two guns with different functions but still use the same ammo.
2. Since the 686 can use .38 aswell its cheaper than .45 acp .357 cost about the same as .357 but I generally go through ammo slower with a revolver than a semi auto.
you really can't go wrong with either. I would suggest considering all factors as to which you would shoot more.
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KLYDE
Member
I own 2 semi autos. A Ruger Mk II and a SR1911. The rest are S&W revolvers and a Redhawk. Beginning of the year I purchased the SR1911 for cost through an LE program that Ruger endorses. Shipped it off to CCG in Louisanna for a trigger job and front strap checkering. Into the gun for approx 800. Certainly not a $2000 Les but it is accurate and rock solid dependable. All that I was looking for.
I'll have to agree with the former members on every American being required to own one of each.
I'll have to agree with the former members on every American being required to own one of each.
66Park
Member
I think given your level of experience that you've made the best choice. I will say, however, from my experience with two Colt 1911s, both of which were worked on by a good gunsmith, that they are very easy to disassemble and at least mine didn't require any tinkering at all to keep them running. I shot thousands of rounds through both of them without a single malfunction or issue. All they required was cleaning and some light lubrication. They were trouble free guns, and that was shooting 99% reloads. The only time I shot factory ammo was for IPSC matches. Nothing broke. Nothing jammed. I could disassemble them in under a minute.
M3Stuart
Member
Welcome to the forum!
Glad you are enjoying your 442. I'm in the process of getting a 642 myself.
I have the 686-4+ and I would highly recommend the 686. You can't go wrong with it.
I'm not a 1911 guy - at all. I shoot the beretta 92FS (I can hear the howls now) and, in several thousand rounds, have never had any malfunction, fte, ftf, etc of any type whatsoever. Ammo doesn't matter, 'dirtiness' doesn't matter... So, guess what, I'm not switching to the 1911 anytime soon.
When I started in semi-auto pistols years ago, my first one was a spiffy new Ruger MkII for like 200 beans. Now I have 2 MkIIs and a stainless MkIII. Talk about cheap fun? Nothing beats the MkII. If you get a 1911, you might want to get a .22 version like the Ruger 22/45 so you can practice a lot without breaking the bank.
Glad you are enjoying your 442. I'm in the process of getting a 642 myself.
I have the 686-4+ and I would highly recommend the 686. You can't go wrong with it.
I'm not a 1911 guy - at all. I shoot the beretta 92FS (I can hear the howls now) and, in several thousand rounds, have never had any malfunction, fte, ftf, etc of any type whatsoever. Ammo doesn't matter, 'dirtiness' doesn't matter... So, guess what, I'm not switching to the 1911 anytime soon.
When I started in semi-auto pistols years ago, my first one was a spiffy new Ruger MkII for like 200 beans. Now I have 2 MkIIs and a stainless MkIII. Talk about cheap fun? Nothing beats the MkII. If you get a 1911, you might want to get a .22 version like the Ruger 22/45 so you can practice a lot without breaking the bank.
John wilson
Member
Love em both!
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Kilibreaux
Member
If you are seriously looking for a CARRY gun then the 1911, nor the 686 is the choice.
The right answer for carry isn't even a .45 ACP despite all the post-1986 hype.
If you're looking to carry a serious handgun for a REAL encounter then you should be looking at either the Glock or the Springfield Armory, or S&W M&P. You can go .45 if you want, or go .40 S&W for improved ballistics, or go 357 SIG for what is probably the IDEAL semiautomatic handgun cartridge.
I got a 1911 in .45 ACP...actually I have several. Why in hell would I CHOOSE to carry a gun that holds only 8 shots when I could carry one that holds TWICE that? I know...the .45 ACP has more "knockdown"....well, not really....not once you strip away the hype...not once you've SEEN what a .45 ACP does to a HUMAN compared to the 9mm and .40...after that you have no delusions. I will ALWAYS choose a 9mm carrying 18 shots versus my 1911 carrying 8...ALWAYS. My Sig P228 carries a 20 round mag with several spares...WAY "superior" to the 1911.
A single round of 9mm is MORE LIKELY to penetrate clean through a human torso...(SEEN IT) than a .45 ACP.
BOTH are equal in terms of kinetic energy and interestingly enough, EQUAL in terms of "instant incapacitation - or not. NEITHER will bust open a human with same authority as a .44 magnum, and neither is the equal of the .357 magnum.
The Army dumped the 1911 in 1986 and adopted the 9mm...and since then the "lore" surrounding the .45 ACP has grown to ridiculous proportions amongst people who really have no clue about pistol cartridge power. The "myth" derives from the Phillipine insurrection and the Colt .38 revolver which was VERY anemic. The "myth" fails to recognize the 9mm is NOT an anemic .38 Colt round. The "myth" has been further promulgated by arrogant police agencies - the FBI comes to mind, who do not want to ADMIT to piss-poor training and incompetent agents, but blame the 9mm for failing to stop a single man with a Mini-14...everyone knows the story but what everyone fails to grasp is the "spin" about the 9mm versus 10mm, versus .40 S&W is GOOD FOR BUSINESS! If I have some dweeb who strolls in believing the .45ACP is the hammer of Thor and I happen to have a selection of multi-thousand-dollar 1911's that need to sell, I'm going to pander to the dweeb's ignorance. I WANT dweebs to believe the 1911 myth and shell out in excess of a thousand dollars...but the FACT is, a Glock M17/19, or SA 9mm is the BETTER choice for far less money.
I will agree with the guy who stated the 1911 owner needs to be someone who likes to "tinker" with mechanical things...because that is so TRUE of the 1911 platform as it has been "reborn" in the commercial market. If you want to puff and posture, buy a Kimber, if you're serious, buy a GLOCK or a Springfield, or a SIG, or a Smith M&P....ANYTHING but a 1911.
Like I said, I have owned, or currently own, one of each and my 1911 stays home while my Sig with half a dozen spare mags goes with me.
The right answer for carry isn't even a .45 ACP despite all the post-1986 hype.
If you're looking to carry a serious handgun for a REAL encounter then you should be looking at either the Glock or the Springfield Armory, or S&W M&P. You can go .45 if you want, or go .40 S&W for improved ballistics, or go 357 SIG for what is probably the IDEAL semiautomatic handgun cartridge.
I got a 1911 in .45 ACP...actually I have several. Why in hell would I CHOOSE to carry a gun that holds only 8 shots when I could carry one that holds TWICE that? I know...the .45 ACP has more "knockdown"....well, not really....not once you strip away the hype...not once you've SEEN what a .45 ACP does to a HUMAN compared to the 9mm and .40...after that you have no delusions. I will ALWAYS choose a 9mm carrying 18 shots versus my 1911 carrying 8...ALWAYS. My Sig P228 carries a 20 round mag with several spares...WAY "superior" to the 1911.
A single round of 9mm is MORE LIKELY to penetrate clean through a human torso...(SEEN IT) than a .45 ACP.
BOTH are equal in terms of kinetic energy and interestingly enough, EQUAL in terms of "instant incapacitation - or not. NEITHER will bust open a human with same authority as a .44 magnum, and neither is the equal of the .357 magnum.
The Army dumped the 1911 in 1986 and adopted the 9mm...and since then the "lore" surrounding the .45 ACP has grown to ridiculous proportions amongst people who really have no clue about pistol cartridge power. The "myth" derives from the Phillipine insurrection and the Colt .38 revolver which was VERY anemic. The "myth" fails to recognize the 9mm is NOT an anemic .38 Colt round. The "myth" has been further promulgated by arrogant police agencies - the FBI comes to mind, who do not want to ADMIT to piss-poor training and incompetent agents, but blame the 9mm for failing to stop a single man with a Mini-14...everyone knows the story but what everyone fails to grasp is the "spin" about the 9mm versus 10mm, versus .40 S&W is GOOD FOR BUSINESS! If I have some dweeb who strolls in believing the .45ACP is the hammer of Thor and I happen to have a selection of multi-thousand-dollar 1911's that need to sell, I'm going to pander to the dweeb's ignorance. I WANT dweebs to believe the 1911 myth and shell out in excess of a thousand dollars...but the FACT is, a Glock M17/19, or SA 9mm is the BETTER choice for far less money.
I will agree with the guy who stated the 1911 owner needs to be someone who likes to "tinker" with mechanical things...because that is so TRUE of the 1911 platform as it has been "reborn" in the commercial market. If you want to puff and posture, buy a Kimber, if you're serious, buy a GLOCK or a Springfield, or a SIG, or a Smith M&P....ANYTHING but a 1911.
Like I said, I have owned, or currently own, one of each and my 1911 stays home while my Sig with half a dozen spare mags goes with me.
Congratulations on your purchase of a fine S&W revolver!
Now... as to a new acquisition, think before you buy. Decide what you want to do with a handgun. Consider what is most important to you in terms of features, utility at the range and in the field/woods, etc. Then buy accordingly. This will allow you to buy what best suits your needs and interest rather then buying what is the flavor of the day in a particular gun magazine, etc.
Dave in Edmonds
Member
The amount of balderdash and outright misinformation regarding 1911's in this thread is quite astonishing. There are dozens of 1911-type pistols in the $750-1500 range to choose from that are dead reliable and fun to shoot right out of the box. Colt, Kimber, Sig Sauer, Springfield Armory and many others all offer excellent quality and reliability for a reasonable price.
Difficult to service? Seriously? Have you ever done it? They disassemble in less than a minute and go back together just as quickly.
Less accurate than a revolver? Not even worth addressing.
I own a 686-6, a 29-10, two Sig 1911's and a Kimber. They are all supremely reliable and excellent shooters.
Difficult to service? Seriously? Have you ever done it? They disassemble in less than a minute and go back together just as quickly.
Less accurate than a revolver? Not even worth addressing.
I own a 686-6, a 29-10, two Sig 1911's and a Kimber. They are all supremely reliable and excellent shooters.
CT-Hunter
Member
It depends on what you want to use it for. If it is for home security go for the wheel gun. At 2:00 AM when you are woken from a sound sleep, you are probably better off with a revolver. Less to go wrong and less to think about. That is what I use and I have semi-s in the the safe. If it is for carry, your best choice is to go light weight. It does not do any good to have a carry gun that quite frankly is a pain in the a** to carry. I personally prefer an old j - frame though I occasionally use a 3913 (for formal occasions). If it is for the range, knock yourself out.
