Model 686 v. 1911

[crofoot629]

If you want to know if your 1911 runs, 800 rounds doesn't mean much. IPSC shooters often times put 10,000 rounds through a gun in a year.

I Long ago gave up on cheap 1911's and since 1996 have been very happy with two Wilson Combat's. Shooting both action pistol games and for duty.

Stay away from Kimbers. Every man should own a nice 1911 some day, but most will not. Why spend $3500 on a shooter unless your going to shoot it a lot ?

An older production 686 is a far better value.

Emory

 

[C Islander]

As much as I love revolvers, I think every gun owner needs a 1911. No help, but it's my opinion!

 

[sarge1967]

If you want to know if your 1911 runs, 800 rounds doesn't mean much. IPSC shooters often times put 10,000 rounds through a gun in a year.

I Long ago gave up on cheap 1911's and since 1996 have been very happy with two Wilson Combat's. Shooting both action pistol games and for duty.

Stay away from Kimbers. Every man should own a nice 1911 some day, but most will not. Why spend $3500 on a shooter unless your going to shoot it a lot ?

An older production 686 is a far better value.

Emory

I agree, well said Emory.

 

[Philosophaster]

My 442 is the every day carry gun and it is plenty small to conceal nicely so that is not a consideration. Either the 686 or the 1911 would be a range/home gun. Any thoughts on the Ruger 1911 or the S&W? I have been really pleased with my current S&W and would not hesitate to purchase again. Also, how much for a good condition 686?

 

[mc5aw]

Hello all. This is my first post and I am new to the forum. I purchased my first handgun last September, it is a S&W Model 442, and I really enjoy shooting it. ................. I really do enjoy my 442 and the ease of use of the revolver platform.

With only 10 months under your belt as a new firearms owner, go with the platform you are currently learning on. Get the L-frame 686 and enjoy shooting it ... you'll notice a considerable difference between the 686 and the J-frame 442. Once you're comfortable with the L-frame 686, there will be plenty of time to learn the nuances of the 1911, as well as finding a cost effective "starter" gun.

 

[forestswin]

I am new to handguns too! My first was a used High Standard Victor 22 - that is a blast to shoot. My second was a new 686 - I got it because I had read if you are going to have one gun it should be a 357 revolver - the S&W 686 stainless was an easy choice there. I am completely fascinated by that gun - I can't go to range without taking 50 rounds of 38 sp or 357 - just can't put it down. My third gun was a used Colt Gold Cup National Match 45 ACP. To me the Colt is the ultimate. Looks, feel, operation and accuracy. So in my opinion the question should be -- which one to buy before the other.

Again, I'm new to handguns - but on this road - you are going to run into the issue of reloading your own ammo. If you get into that, I've found that a hefty 357 / 38 special revolver like the 686 is the best gun to starting to learn reloading.

 

[sbeatty1983]

My 442 is the every day carry gun and it is plenty small to conceal nicely so that is not a consideration. Either the 686 or the 1911 would be a range/home gun. Any thoughts on the Ruger 1911 or the S&W? I have been really pleased with my current S&W and would not hesitate to purchase again. Also, how much for a good condition 686?

Stay away from the ruger. There is alot better stuff out there for the money than a cast frame warning sign that shoots.

 

[sbeatty1983]

This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

That TLE cost me $850 10 years ago. It has between 20-22k through it right now. Ive changed the recoil spring 8 times and kimber replaced the front sight when it quit glowing 3 years ago. In all those thousands of rounds of ammo I can count the number of failures on one hand and at least two of them were ammo related.

 

[Neumann]

A Smith 686 and a decent (~900) 1911 will have about the same SA accuracy, but the 1911 will be 3x as accurate as the 686 fired DA. The 686 is nearly 1-1/2" thick and 10" long (4" barrel) compared to 0.9" thick and 6" long for a full-sized 1911. The weights are about the same - 40 oz. Capacity of a 1911 is 8+1 and can be reloaded in a fraction of the time of a revolver, unless you happen to be Jerry Mikulek.

A 1911 is much easier to carry concealed than a revolver, unless you need the extra power and penetration of a .357 magnum. A 230 grain +p is about 500 ft-lb, whereas .357 starts at over 600 ft-lb. Against a black bear or wild pig, I'd pick the .357 or larger, but the 1911 is sufficient against anything on two legs.

Unless you reload, it costs about the same to shoot each ($35-$45 /50). Most of reloading cost is in the bullets, the heavier the more expensive, so .357 costs about 40% less than .45 ACP to reload and you don't lose the brass in the gravel.

I have both, but unless I need the muzzle energy of .357, I would carry a 1911, more specifically a Commander, which weighs 9 oz less. West of the Rockies, I carry a .44 magnum in the woods, but would settle for .357 magnum east of the Mississippi. For home defense, I insist on tritium night sights. I put them on one 686, but it's a lot easier on a 1911. It's very hard to see black sights in dim light or against a dark background (don't BGs wear black).

 

[fyimo]

This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

I don't disagree with what you said but I will say a well tuned 1911 has the best SA trigger out there period, is easy to break down and clean, and can have bullet proof and be reliable. The reliability doesn't come as much from the parts but the level of tuning you are willing to get. That sounds stange but it's true because some of those not as famous as Wilson and Les Bauer have some solid reliable 1911's for sale.

The S&W revolver whether it's 686 or any other large caliber handgun that you feel comfortable carrying and have tested would be a reliable pistol and will serve you well in self defense.

 

[1HAWKEYE]

Since your just sort of starting out I would suggest the 686 first and the older production the better. As for a 1911 I would go for a Ruger SR1911. And thats coming from a shooter who built his own 1300.00 Caspian because at the time I didn't see a 1911 I liked. IMO I think Caspian is making the parts for Ruger cause they sure do look alike. That SR's frame is definetly Caspians design & the slide cut look like it to. O and don't worry about the SR's cast frame it will outlast several barrels. Mines got 15,000+ rounds and its still as tight as when the first round went through it. Good luck either choice is a good move.

 

[BUFF]

My advice is to always buy the one you want the most.

 

[2hawk]

I agree with Buff! But eventually, you will have both, so it's sort of a moot point
I've got Colt, SA, Wilson, Baer, and STI/Wilson 1911's. A couple of each in some cases. I do like tinkering, and have done a bit of work on my Colt Commander.

I'm happy with the results, and I am happy with all the others as well. All have proven to be reliable and accurate with in-spec ammo. That said, the 1911 I've been enjoying the most lately is a SA Mil-Spec I found at a pawn, OTD for $400. Changed the trigger, bushing, extractor and sear for another $100 or so, and the gun shoots as well as I can at 25 yds and under. So I don't think you need to spend a boatload for a good, reliable, accurate 1911.

No matter what the gun, knowing the principles of how it works is always going to make the care and use of it more effective and enjoyable. IMHO

 

[papajohn428]

I've had a couple 686's and love them dearly..........but I also own several 1911's, and that's what I carry off-duty more than anything else. The Rock Island guns are serviceable if crude, but with good ammo both of mine are 100% reliable, and I have less than $1000 in both of them. But I was looking for a stainless 1911, leaning toward the Ruger, then fell into a deal on a brand-new Springfield Armory for $650. I'd have paid more, it's VERY well-made.

The biggest problem with autoloaders is that you're stuck with the size of the grip frame, there isn't a lot you can do to make it fit your hand. Revolvers have a plethora of grip options available, and can be made to fit nearly any hand. If your hands don't like the feel of the gun you won't shoot it well, trust me. Get whichever one feels better, and then take the time to learn it inside and out.

 

[steamloco76]

I knew my comments would start a bit of controversy. I stand by them though. I have owned Colts, Springfields, Kimber, S&W, Les Baer and Nighthawk Custom 1911's. The only one one that worked flawlessly was the Nighthawk. Every other one had to have some work done to it. They all had failure to feeds or stovepipes or failure to extract at some point in their use. The Nighthawk never did though.
Obviously I am a fan of the 1911. But unless you are willing to train and learn lots of malfunction drills then I would not want to have my life depend on a 1911 unless it is a high end one and even then honestly a Glock or M&P Auto is really a better choice. Now if it going to be a range gun or fun gun then go for it.

I have to respectfully disagree with a couple points here. My three full size 1911's, a Springfield Range Officer, MertoArms FireStorm Gov't Model and an Iver Johnson purchased for my wife have all been exceedingly reliable pistols. All that is required is proper lubrication, good quality ammo and proper shooting technique. These pistols range in price from $950 for the Springfield to $450 for the FireStorm (made in the Philippines), certainly not $2000 plus. The Springfield and the FireStorm are very accurate, capable of sub two inch 25 yard groups when I do my part, the Iver Johnson is a bit less accurate, however it has only 300 rounds through it. The only failures to feed/cycle with any of these 1911's occurred due to a somewhat under-loaded batch of CCI Blazer brass ammo. This same ammo even choked my Sig P220 and S&W 4566 so it was definitely no gun problem.

On the other hand, I love .357 Magnum revolvers and actively collect and shoot them. The 686 and 686+ series are wonderful guns. Sturdy, smooth, accurate and fun to shoot even with powerful magnum ammo. They seem to shoot most loads to similar points of impact too, something which can't be said for the 45's when switching bullet weights. The 686 also has an advantage for sportsmen. Most states allow handgun hunting with revolvers (depending upon barrel length and caliber) while far less let you use a semi-auto pistol.

The ability to use a vast variety of .38 Special, .38 Special Plus P and .357 Magnum loads, plus the great ease of reloading these calibers is what tips my vote toward the 686 as the second gun. Down the road, yes branch off into the great worlds of 1911's, but for now go with the 686 and become proficient with it.

Happy shooting!

 

[nitroburner]

Apple meet Orange , no comparison buy 1 of each to start .

 

[Old cop]

I'm a revolver guy who once owned a MilSpec Springfield 1911. It was fun to shoot but was also trouble prone. One post here said that unless you're "handy" and like to fix things (I'm not) give the 1911 a miss, sage advise. Mine was returned to Springfield twice and each time they fixed the gun - no charge - quickly, but I got tired of sending it back.

Also, before getting a single action semi auto like a 1911 do a search on neglegent discharges (ND). Handling a 1911 platform has to become second nature for safety sake. It's one thing if you plan to use the 1911 on the range only, but to switch back and forth for home defense or daily carry is frought w/ND danger, at least IMHO. Some can do it, but I cannot and stay w/a J frame for home defense & EDC.

 

[Fishslayer]

Stay away from the ruger. There is alot better stuff out there for the money than a cast frame warning sign that shoots.

Owners would seem to disagree, and people are paying MSRP+ to get their hands on one.

"Warning sign?" Have you even looked at one? Couple of small etchings on each side of the slide and "Consult manual, etc" tucked away on the underside of the dust cover. Less obtrusive than a bunch of tacticool buzzwords engraved all over it...

 

[tgmr05]

Get a 686 and as you learn more and more, get a 1911. You know which service size 357 revolver you want, but have no idea which 1911 to get. The choices are staggering, and the used market requires more than a basic check to be sure you are getting a good one.

To put it another way, imagine if the 686 were copied by roughly 40-50 manufacturers over the years, and most have parts that can interchange......

 

[357 shooter]

I purchased my first handgun last September, it is a S&W Model 442, and I really enjoy shooting it.

I really do enjoy my 442 and the ease of use of the revolver platform.

In your situation being relatively new to handguns I would probably go with a 686. Your familiarity with the revolver is already there and the 686 is one of the best all around revolvers.

I have both , a 1994 686-4 and a 2011 Springfield Armory Range Master. This is the 4th 686 I have owned and the third Springfield 1911.

I have to disagree on much of what has been said about the 1911 , especially in regards to what is available today. One does not have to spend 2 grand to have a reliable , accurate and good quality 1911. The above was $765 total. You do not have to be a master gunsmith to own one. I bought a Sig P226 not long after the above 1911 and fired close to the same round count and both have been totally reliable.

I still like the 686 as the next step from a 442. A 686 was also my first handgun back in 1987.