MIM parts failure

[scooter123]

I'm no gunsmith or firearms engineer, however I fail to see how the construction of the hammer affects how it strikes the main revolver body. Be it forged or MIM, the profile and shape are essentially identical so a forged or MIM hammer would strike the frame in the same way.

Neither of my .500 Mags sound any different when dry firing (I usually use snap caps by the way) than do my Ruger SP101 and GP101. Don

Don, read a bit more carefully. I didn't say there was any difference in the construction in term of the hammer hitting the frame, what I stated was that through hardened parts are prone to failure when exposed to repeated shocks. MIM parts are through hardened, forged parts are case hardened with a hard outer casing and softer core.

I'll also point out that if you pay attention you'll note a DIFFERENCE in the sound of the hammer fall when dry firing without a snap can and dry firing WITH a snap cap. Listen closely enough and you can hear the steel ring as the hammer contacts the frame when a snap cap isn't used.

 

[DonD]

I'll also point out that if you pay attention you'll note a DIFFERENCE in the sound of the hammer fall when dry firing without a snap can and dry firing WITH a snap cap. Listen closely enough and you can hear the steel ring as the hammer contacts the frame when a snap cap isn't used.

No quibble with that. Don

 

[DDDWho]

Its all about perceived reliability. Is a pre 64 model 12 Winchester the best made pump shotgun ever produced? Perhaps, but the perception of an all machined firearm makes it more valuable IMO. As I progress through my "golden years" I am more concerned about heirloom quality than I am about almost everything else. Is a MIM parted gun as reliable as one totally machined? That is not up to me to decide but machining is more desirable to me. Everything being manufactured these days has an eye towards thrift in the process. Of course machining is more expensive but probably an equally reliable piece can be made by casting.

 

[Augen]

MIM parts don't matter to me and I believe are quite reliable. However I buy the older smiths for (1) political as I won't buy a new one with a lock and (2) I really like recessed cylinders.

So revolvers that I like are in finite supply and I buy what I can buy before the price increases.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

This is my MIM hammer after a tragic dremel accident.

After thousands upon thousands of cycles.... it's still in one piece, although substantially lighter. If it hasn't broken yet... nothing will break in the future. Several TiN and colbalt bits died in its making before I wised up and used the tungsten carbide big guns. I don't bother with snap caps either.

 

[Invictus357]

I've had MIM Smith revolvers off and on for the last 11 years. I have never had a failed MIM or ILS.

My (made last May) 686+ is the finest Smith I've ever owned.

 

[pwes]

In the realm of collectors of expensive revolvers there will be none with MIM parts from the few thousand dollar ones through those with 5 digit prices. This probably is not indictive of the reliability of the MIM revolvers.

 

[Scottrh2]

This may well be true, but I knew a man who worked as an assistant to the president of Coca Cola at the time, and he said that in every consumer test, New Coke was preferred over Pepsi Cola [the real target at the time], except for one instance where the samples were accidentally switched. But I do agree that the "old Coke" was better than either of the others, unless you were a dedicated Pepsi fan.

After watching someone use Coke to clean battery terminals that were corroded, I long ago swore off all brands for drinking. It did a great job of cleaning them BTW.
In other news, I accept MIM, rather they were milled, but can live with them.

 

[ken158]

Wonder if S&W figured out most buyers keep their guns locked in a safe and rarely allow them to see the light of day, thereby concluding MIM potential failure is of no concern...?

 

[Drm50]

Wonder if S&W figured out most buyers keep their guns locked in a safe and rarely allow them to see the light of day, thereby concluding MIM potential failure is of no concern...?

Exactly, how many firearms of all types are used to any degree?
Law Enforcement & Military training and civilians that are involved in some shooting competitions and games. The great bulk of firearms don't get shot that much by owners for SD, HD or hunting purposes. I come from a civilization where almost every guy had a Shotgun, deer rifle, 22 rifle and some kind of night stand pistol. Now less people are hunting and in some places it's a hassle to find a place to shoot. The new generation doesn't have any idea what a quality firearm is, so selling MIM and plastics is no big deal. Soon firearms will come bubble packed.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I've got a 625-8 with MIM and a lock. It's about 10 years old and has >2K rounds thru it. No issues yet. S&W does MIM very well, probably better than anyone. I'm actually surprised this keeps popping up as a consideration.

 

[shocker]

This is my MIM hammer after a tragic dremel accident.

After thousands upon thousands of cycles.... it's still in one piece, although substantially lighter. If it hasn't broken yet... nothing will break in the future. Several TiN and colbalt bits died in its making before I wised up and used the tungsten carbide big guns. I don't bother with snap caps either.

Nice of example of the web being unnecessary as the forces are carried by the caps (spar terminology). I presume Smith leaves the web there for enough inertial mass to have reliable strikes over the range of primer hardnesses out there. Or it's more difficult to mold without the web, or both. But it's still a good example of having metal where you need it and not where it's not.

Any time parts can be made to close tolerances economically I'm all for it. Hand working parts to fit sucks, been there, done that.

 

[DonD]

If they own a bolt action rifle it is sitting in a synthetic stock with a range finding, bullet drop compensating, red dot scope.

Change comes slow to us and sometimes rather grudgingly.

I wonder where you found a red dot with bullet drop compensation in it? Most red dots are in the range of 2-3X and are seldom found on bolt actions. Don

 

[Red Tex]

The MIM controversy...

My son is an engineer. Years ago I asked him about any real concerns about the process and/or the parts produced by it. He said that nowadays it's very solid and no one should have any concerns. That said, he mentioned that there were early failures in MIM parts in a number of industries, not just firearms manufacturing. That's nearly always the case when a new technology arrives on the scene. Teething problems are to be expected. But now, MIM is a mature process and one that works well.

 

[Howardeye]

Wonder if S&W figured out most buyers keep their guns locked in a safe and rarely allow them to see the light of day, thereby concluding MIM potential failure is of no concern...?

That is the best reply I have ever seen!!!

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

There are some folks that say that a 1911 can only be in 45ACP, fullsize and made by Colt before 1992, otherwise it is not a 1911. The same goes for MIM parts, the Internal lock, strikers, and a multitude of other individual pet peeves. My observation is that the new guns are just as well designed as the old ones, but slightly more likely to need adjustment after purchase as we collectively are unwilling to pay for the price to get it right the first time. If we did not have different opinions this hobby would not be as much fun. Happy safe shooting to all here.

 

[Hapworth]

Major zombie thread, and for a MIM debate...

 

[wproct]

Can't believe it!

Major zombie thread, and for a MIM debate...

Yeah, I started this thing and I can't believe that it is still alive!

 

[pistolpete10]

I have several S&W revolvers with mim parts and the dreaded lock. While overall quality of the guns is not what it is on older guns I've had no failures of mim or the lock. A couple have quite a few rounds thru them, a 625JM with several thousand rounds and a 686 with a few thousand. Both went back on warranty but not because of MIM or the lock. Both problems were just poor workmanship. If one of their new revolvers suits you don't reject it because of MIM or the lock.

 

[joebuck]

I had a 329PD that the lock activated by itself on recoil. The lock found a new home in the closest lake. No more issues with that.