Handloaders: Please Educate Me .38/.357/.40

[bushmaster1313]

I shoot all three with factory loads.

Questions:

1) How much of each case is typically filled with powder?

2) With the same bullet weight, which packs more punch .357 or .40?

3) Are the powders the same for all three?

4) How do they get so much oomph in the .40?

Thank you in advance

 

[Moonman]

Get a copy of the ABC's of reloading, read it 3 times, it's a very good read.

This will give you a better understanding of reloading and the relationships

of the components that comprise a cartridge.

YOU MUST FOLLOW DIRECTIONS when reloading as

you could destroy a firearm along with injuring yourself or others.

Reloading propellants sold to the general public are NOT IDENTICAL to the factories.

Some are very close in their characteristics but not identical.

Good reading,

 

[bushmaster1313]

Not going to reload
Just trying to understand why the .40 is so powerful.

 

[Moonman]

Components and their relationships.

No, the powders are not all the same.

The case size of the 38 is large because it was originally

loaded with Black Powder. (it took a lot of powder)

The 357 came along in 1935 and may have been the same case size,

but when Common Sense prevailed, a longer case was used so

as to prevent it from being loaded into a 38 chamber.

Many powders occupy very little space in the case. (Bullseye for one)

That's why you hear about being careful not to double charge a case.

Powders such as Trail Boss were developed (think Light and Fluffy) and require

the case to be filled to the point that a double charge physically cannot fit into a case.

 

[all357mag]

The 357 mag blows both the 40 & 38 away in stopping power. It's hotter, and loaded to higher pressures than most other calibers.

 

[mkk41]

Not going to reload
Just trying to understand why the .40 is so powerful.

Who said the .40 is 'so powerful'?

The cartridges intended for most semi-auto pistols are generally shorter and less powerful than magnum revolver rounds due to pistol size and mechanics. The .40 S&W is roughly equal to the 1873 38/40 WCF round.

It's a good compromise between the sometimes ineffective 9mmP and hard to master .45 ACP. The guns are generally the same size as 9mm models , but the .45 is usually chambered in bigger pistols.

Bullet dia , weight and velocity is somewhere between the two.

The 10mm Auto as introduced was a real hot rod round , but due to wear and tear on guns so chambered , it was soon downloaded to .40 S&W level.

True , semi-auto pistols have been made for magnum cartridges , like the Auto-Mag , Wildey and Desert Eagle , but they have been very large , very complex and very expensive.

If ya go to the Remington , Winchester and Federal websites , ya can pull up comparative ballistic charts for all their factory ammo.

 

[bushmaster1313]

The .40 feels very zippy in my 41 ounce Sig 226
The .357 pushes harder and loader, but feels smoother, in my 5" 357 Magnum

 

[mkk41]

The .40 feels very zippy in my 41 ounce Sig 226
The .357 pushes harder and loader, but feels smoother, in my 5" 357 Magnum

Physics , ma' boy , simple physics.

It's the impulse of the weight/mass of the slide coming back vs the lightweight of the aluminum frame you feel.

The 226 was originally designed for the 9mmP.

With the .357 revolver , all the mass is stationary. It 'soaks up' the felt recoil.

 

[Treeman]

Recoil perception has little to do with bullet energy. The .40 is a good round but it isn't "sooooo" powerful. Neither is the .357. All are powerful enough for most purposes. Case volume has a bearing on the energy potential of a cartridge of a given bore size at a given pressure. It is too complex to answer in a paragraph but the ultra short answer is =small cases are most EFFICIENT- in getting the most energy from a smaller volume of powder in a short barrel. Big cases require more propellant to reach a given pressure but can use DIFFERENT burning rate powder that will hold pressures nearer the peak for longer, thus giving additional acceleration for higher velocity and energy even in short barrels but gaining much more in longer barrel lengths.

 

[2hawk]

.40 S&W Maximum pressure 35,000 psi (240 MPa)
.357 Magnum Maximum pressure 35,000 psi (241 MPa)
9×19mm Parabellum Maximum pressure 235.00 MPa (34,084 psi)

.38 Special was originally a blackpowder cartridge, that's the reason the case is much longer than something like the 9mm, even though the 9 operates at almost twice the pressure. Conversely, the .40 is one of the few truly modern cartridges to be designed that takes advantage of the fact that only new guns would be chamber for it, same with .357SIG.

.40 has a rep for "snap", you may want to try using 180gr. bullets that have a slightly slower pressure curve to reduce the perceived recoil.

 

[bushmaster1313]

.40 S&W Maximum pressure 35,000 psi (240 MPa)
.357 Magnum Maximum pressure 35,000 psi (241 MPa)
9×19mm Parabellum Maximum pressure 235.00 MPa (34,084 psi)

.38 Special was originally a blackpowder cartridge, that's the reason the case is much longer than something like the 9mm, even though the 9 operates at almost twice the pressure. Conversely, the .40 is one of the few truly modern cartridges to be designed that takes advantage of the fact that only new guns would be chamber for it, same with .357SIG.

.40 has a rep for "snap", you may want to try using 180gr. bullets that have a slightly slower pressure curve to reduce the perceived recoil.

It's all fun

 

[kennyb]

The .40 feels very zippy in my 41 ounce Sig 226
The .357 pushes harder and loader, but feels smoother, in my 5" 357 Magnum

for "zippy"try the 500 magnum!

 

[Neumann]

I shoot all three with factory loads.

Questions:

1) How much of each case is typically filled with powder?

2) With the same bullet weight, which packs more punch .357 or .40?

3) Are the powders the same for all three?

4) How do they get so much oomph in the .40?

Thank you in advance

(1) It's good practice to choose a powder which will leave very little air space under the bullet. You are less likely to double charge. Powder is usually metered by volume, and the larger the volume, the less the relative error. Finally, powder burns more consistently if there is less free space.

(2) Loaded to the maximum, a .357 magnum has about 50% more "punch" than a .40 SW, 600 ft-lb v 400 ft-lb. You can use lighter loads for .357M and hotter for .40SW, using common recipes.

(3) As a rule, magnum revolvers use slower powders than pistols. You get more useable energy by using more of a slower powder like 2400. Target (light) loads use smaller amounts of fast powder like Bullseye.

(4) .40SW has about the same muzzle energy as a 9mm or ..45ACP. This energy is divided between the bullet and gun by the weight ratio. A lighter bullet has less recoil than a heavier one. A faster bullet has more felt recoil (snappier) than a slower one. These two factors tend to oppose each other. As a result, a .40SW has more felt recoil than either 9mm or .45ACP, since it is heavier than a 9mm and faster than .45ACP.

Believe me, an hot .357M will make your hand sting, but not like a .44M or .50SWM. A moving slide soaks up energy and spreads it out in time. A revolver just smacks you.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Believe me, an hot .357M will make your hand sting,

I believe you.

I have been shooting the Federal American Eagle 158 soft points to my great shot placement satisfaction, with manageable recoil.

It's probably a relatively light .357 Magnum load.

Muzzle Energy 539
Muzzle Velocity 1240

 

[mkk41]

I believe you.

I have been shooting the Federal American Eagle 158 soft points to my great shot placement satisfaction, with manageable recoil.

It's probably a relatively light .357 Magnum load.

That's actually a very good load , and a friend has used that load in an 8in barreled Dan Wesson to take several PA whitetail out to 75yds.

The original 1935 factory load was a 158gr lead SWC at a claimed 1500fps from an 8in+ in barreled S&W.

 

[bushmaster1313]

That's actually a very good load

It's also relatively affordable for factory ammo

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm a revolver guy and I'll take a .357 Magnum over a 40 S&W any day. I feel the 357 delivers more stopping power and it's time tested and proven for many uses.

I have nothing against the 40 S&W and I'm sure anyone carrying one is well protected but I'll stick with the .357 Magnum.

Also like said above, heavy felt recoil does not make a caliber zippy, it may just feel that way. A sharp snap the 40 delivers may feel worse than the straight up recoil of the .357 magnum but the 357 is probably more powerful.

 

[DWalt]

Terms like "Punch" and "Oomph" have absolutely no ballistic meaning. The first thing to establish is that "Punch" and "Oomph" don't kill anything. Good bullet placement does. It's far more important to deliver a bullet to the right place than whether you are shooting any particular caliber or bullet type. Also, all those heavier calibers involve more difficulty in recovering from recoil, which slows down the process of follow-up shots.