My Shield went boom.

[Alnamvet68]

I think that if you search this thread you'll find pictures of my blown up M&P 9 fs dam it looks just like my gun. By the way S&W 's answer was an over pressure round. They sold me a new gun for 399.00 search the pictures it looks the same. I still think that the damn thing fired out of battery but smith says no!

I read your thread...what was the answer to your kB; it has been 11 months, and I'm surprised there was no followup by anyone who participated in that thread.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Wow............thats nasty, glad to hear that you are ok and that the hand heals and there is no nerve damage.

I am sure S&W will want that gun to check it over..........and they should fix things at no charge................

I would hate to be them and have that pistol sitting on top of a major Gun sellers display case, right over the S&W pistols, to say the least !!
Hope all turns out for the best.

 

[catcus-jack]

Wow............thats nasty, glad to hear that you are ok and that the hand heals and there is no nerve damage.

I am sure S&W will want that gun to check it over..........and they should fix things at no charge................

I would hate to be them and have that pistol sitting on top of a major Gun sellers display case, right over the S&W pistols, to say the least !!
Hope all turns out for the best.

Why should they fix it at no charge?What fault of S&Ws is it that out of spec ammo or a squib blew his gun up.The answer is it is NOT a gun problem it is an ammo/user problem.

 

[scooter123]

I'm not sure that is a setback issue. In an effort to help confirm this (or NOT) you may want to consider using a set of digital calipers to measure the overall length of every cartridge still in your possession. If you do, please post the results.

I also question the Winchester casings, that does seem a bit odd. However, Corbon is what was once a small specialty ammunition manufacturer who is now in transition to a larger market. So it's not beyond possibility that they use casings from one of the majors when they are short on their own branded casings. The ammunition pictured is definately the Glaser PowerBall, in terms of appearance it's a rather distinctive bullet. To my knowledge Corbon does not sell bullets as components for reloading, they only sell assembled ammunition. If I am correct this means that Corbon manufacture the ammunition that blew up your shield and I believe they should also be contacted.

Now, as to what was the cause for this, my personal hunch is that it's a case head failure, probably due to a defective case. However that is something that can't be determined without a bit more information.

A small bit of good news is that you were using Factory ammunition so it should be covered under the warranty without any questions. A bigger bit of good news is that in spite of a rather violent explosion in your hand that Shield did protect you from any serious injury.

 

[L2R]

That sucks. Have you heard anything back from them at all? I assume you will hear something before I do. Please let us know what they do with it.


They received mine on Jan. 10.
Called on Jan. 31st wanting some info.
As stated, the CS said they have it in the lab and it could be up to 8 weeks.

This is my 2nd repair for a SW in the last 6 months. They are not communicative, maybe a symtom of being overworked.

I don't expect them to replace a gun due to bad ammo but neither should I. If they determine it is the ammo then Hornady should be footing the bill.

I took a lot of pictures but I have no clue how this would work out.

I will let you know as soon as I do.

 

[guzzi]

MIM barrel like the .380??

 

[Dean1818]

Those rounds look as though they have suffered setback. The 40S&W round is REALLY REALLY prone to that, AND for good measure when it happens there it takes very little make a heck of a pressure spike because the 40S&W is pretty high pressure. Corbon also has a reputation for pushing the pressure envelope anyway. Bad mix - there is very little margin of error. I have held for several years that the 40S&W is not a cartridge that most should use for this and other reasons. It is truly an experts only, no non-dedicated personnel should apply round.

It is common knowledge in some circles in which I run, outside
of this forum, that one should NEVER chamber any 40S&W round twice. Period. Shoot it or otherwise
safely dispose of it. Sadly, other than on those 2 forums and among the folks who populate them, I
have not seen much about this. It is most
likely is that the problem was over pressure ammo from the causes above, plus of course the possibility that storage
conditions could have compromised the powder; heard of such but not familiar directly.

You are darned lucky, and probably were protected from worse injury by the pistol and its quality.

I appreciate your feedback, and do believe safety is important but wonder about that many, many
thousands of LEOs that carry 40 cal that unload and reload their pistol.

I carry a Shield 40 and do cycle to the next round in the mag so I dont reload the same round so many times.

I think there is a risk but dont believe the setback occurs so easily, or you would hear of many more kabooms than we do.

I have had other 40s in the past, and never had an issue.

A kaboom gets a TON of attention, and pictures on every forum. It happens, but doesnt seem to
happen often.

In fact, it seems the vast majority of the small number of kabooms communicated are older Glocks 40s with an unsupported chamber.

I believe that setback is to blame in only a percentage of the already small occurance, as I believe a
squib or double charge are more to blame.

Either way, I believe that as you go from JHP to FMJ and back, after a day at the range, just make sure
that you rotate. Try to keep the rechamberings in 40 as low as possible, but for me a few chamberings
per year on a bullet will not set it back.

I do shoot my carry rounds off every year, and get new, but thats for 40 and 45.(when I carried a 9, I
did the same thing)

If you want to prove it, take a round, get the calipers, chamber it 5-10 times, measure it again.

I think you will see the OAL will be equal.

Do it 30 times, and I bet it will be .03 or so shorter...... Enough to raise pressure

The 40 cal is a great defensive round, nothing to be afraid of.

 

[WallyJJ]

I appreciate your feedback, and do believe safety is important but wonder about that many, many
thousands of LEOs that carry 40 cal that unload and reload their pistol.

I carry a Shield 40 and do cycle to the next round in the mag so I dont reload the same round so many times.

I think there is a risk but dont believe the setback occurs so easily, or you would hear of many more kabooms than we do.

I have had other 40s in the past, and never had an issue

A kaboom gets a TON of attention, and pictures on every forum. It happens, but doesnt seem to
happen often.

In fact, it seems the vast majority of the small number of kabooms communicated are Glocks

I believe that setback is to blame in only a percentage of the already small occurance, as I believe a
squib or double charge are more to blame.

Either way, I believe that as you go from JHP to FMJ and back, after a day at the range, just make sure
that you rotate. Try to keep the rechamberings in 40 as low as possible, but for me a few chamberings per year on a bullet will not set it back.

I do shoot my carry rounds off every year, and get new, but thats for 40 and 45.(when I carried a 9, I did the same thing)

If you want to prove it, take a round, get the calipers, chamber it 5-10 times, measure it again.

I think you will see the OAL will be equal.

Do it 30 times, and I bet it will be .03 or so shorter...... Enough to raise pressure

Funny you mention this as I just watched this video today...

bullet setback of .40 caliber ammunition - YouTube

WallyJJ

 

[WallyJJ]

I'm not sure that is a setback issue. In an effort to help confirm this (or NOT) you may want to consider using a set of digital calipers to measure the overall length of every cartridge still in your possession. If you do, please post the results.

I also question the Winchester casings, that does seem a bit odd. However, Corbon is what was once a small specialty ammunition manufacturer who is now in transition to a larger market. So it's not beyond possibility that they use casings from one of the majors when they are short on their own branded casings. The ammunition pictured is definately the Glaser PowerBall, in terms of appearance it's a rather distinctive bullet. To my knowledge Corbon does not sell bullets as components for reloading, they only sell assembled ammunition. If I am correct this means that Corbon manufacture the ammunition that blew up your shield and I believe they should also be contacted.

Now, as to what was the cause for this, my personal hunch is that it's a case head failure, probably due to a defective case. However that is something that can't be determined without a bit more information.

A small bit of good news is that you were using Factory ammunition so it should be covered under the warranty without any questions. A bigger bit of good news is that in spite of a rather violent explosion in your hand that Shield did protect you from any serious injury.

This is what I posted in the other forum...

I measured from the base of the brass to the bullet tip on 5 samples of what I was shooting prior as well as the 5 rounds of the glaser that I had left in the magazine. Keep in mind the glaser is a rounded tip polymer and the other range ammo I was shooting was flat tipped FMJ, so I'm not sure if this is a valid measurement.

Independence brand range ammo
1. 1.1170"
2. 1.1155"
3. 1.1180"
4. 1.1140"
5. 1.1155"

Glaser
1. 1.1240"
2. 1.1235"
3. 1.1230"
4. 1.1240"
5. 1.1205"

WallyJJ

 

[WallyJJ]

Why should they fix it at no charge?What fault of S&Ws is it that out of spec ammo or a squib blew his gun up.The answer is it is NOT a gun problem it is an ammo/user problem.

Thanks for your analysis cactus-jack. I see now that it was silly of me to try to figure out what happened or let S&W have a crack at it, I should have just asked you!

I will summarize. I took a new gun and shot some NON-RELOADED ammo. Gun went kaboom. No clue what happened so I sent it in and thought I would share my experience here in case other members found the information useful.

I am as much a fanboy of S&W as anyone but come on, you lack credibility to totally discredit the gun's part in making a bullet function. I'm not looking for a payday, just sending it to S&W as THEY requested.

WallyJJ

 

[Dean1818]

I reload cast lead for my Shield and use a long OAL at 1.125.

Just for chuckles and grins I think I am going to measure all my JHPs and see what varience I have

 

[CJ.]

Glad your ok.

A question I have is.....you say these are older cartridges....had you carried them before?

Reason I ask.....the daily routine of chambering and unchambering the same round(s) can cause the bullet to move in the case and cause over pressure. I try not to load and unload my Shield or Glocks (read polymer frame) with the same rounds day in and day out.

 

[Neorev]

ouch that looks terrible and I'm sure it felt terrible. Glad you are ok

 

[catcus-jack]

Thanks for your analysis cactus-jack. I see now that it was silly of me to try to figure out what happened or let S&W have a crack at it, I should have just asked you!

I will summarize. I took a new gun and shot some NON-RELOADED ammo. Gun went kaboom. No clue what happened so I sent it in and thought I would share my experience here in case other members found the information useful.

I am as much a fanboy of S&W as anyone but come on, you lack credibility to totally discredit the gun's part in making a bullet function. I'm not looking for a payday, just sending it to S&W as THEY requested.

WallyJJ

It is NOT the pistols fault that the ammo was faulty.It is NOT S&Ws fault that the ammo was faulty.I am not a big fan of the Shield but I really don't think you are going to get that damage without some Very high pressure.If the pistol were at fault shoothing standard pressure ammo we would see Shields blowing up all over the place and that is just not happening.I wish you luck in your quest for a replacement pistol.Sorry if your feelings got hurt.

 

[WallyJJ]

Glad your ok.

A question I have is.....you say these are older cartridges....had you carried them before?

Reason I ask.....the daily routine of chambering and unchambering the same round(s) can cause the bullet to move in the case and cause over pressure. I try not to load and unload my Shield or Glocks (read polymer frame) with the same rounds day in and day out.

Nah, I never really carried much until recently. They may have been stored in a gun in the home for a few months but they weren't cycled in and out on any sort of routine basis.

 

[WallyJJ]

It is NOT the pistols fault that the ammo was faulty.It is NOT S&Ws fault that the ammo was faulty.I am not a big fan of the Shield but I really don't think you are going to get that damage without some Very high pressure.If the pistol were at fault shoothing standard pressure ammo we would see Shields blowing up all over the place and that is just not happening.I wish you luck in your quest for a replacement pistol.Sorry if your feelings got hurt.

haha, no worries. The internet is not serious business. The next guy might just post something like...

"It is NOT the ammo's fault that the gun was faulty.It is NOT Corbons fault that the gun was faulty.I am not a big fan of the Glasers but I really don't think you are going to get that damage without some Very crappy barrel quality.If the ammo were at fault shoothing in a normal gun we would see glasers blowing up all over the place and that is just not happening."

WallyJJ

 

[Tangsoo]

WallyJJ, I'm also happy you weren't injured, but I've got to add you're pretty cool with some of the responses you've gotten. I don't respond to many threads as I don't have much to offer (just much to learn). I just get a kick out of someone that doesn't take the bait, and keeps the conversation civil. Thanks for sharing what you've experienced, and please keep us informed of the outcome. I also have a .40 Shield and am concerned with what S&W finds.

 

[Alnamvet68]

Not to derail the thread WallyJJ, but while your Shield is undergoing analysis by S&W, perhaps you should take a moment to join the NRA; nothing like a little down time to get one's priorities straight...never let a crisis go to waste.

 

[HotRoderX]

It is NOT the pistols fault that the ammo was faulty.It is NOT S&Ws fault that the ammo was faulty.I am not a big fan of the Shield but I really don't think you are going to get that damage without some Very high pressure.If the pistol were at fault shoothing standard pressure ammo we would see Shields blowing up all over the place and that is just not happening.I wish you luck in your quest for a replacement pistol.Sorry if your feelings got hurt.

I just wanted to point out that you don't know that for a fact. One can reasonably assume that the gun could in fact be at fault. I have yet to find a production process that does not have some type of failure rate manufactures know that cant eliminate it only minimize it.

 

[Donn]

S&W may want the ammo too. Had a catastrophic failure years ago with a Colt SAA. Colt and Remington, (ammo), went round and round for the better part of a year before Colt decided it was a timing problem and sent us a new pistol. You may be headed for the same feud. I don't mean to poke it with a stick, if they discover the ammo was re-loaded, you could have a warranty problem. Colt wanted my ammo for just that reason.