To Re-Load or Not???

[BHarada]

The Winchester brass is running at about a 50:50 split with crimped primers so it looks like I'll have to swage at least half of them.

On the bright side the cases are dirty but not scratched up. shouldn't take much work to get them shiny again.

 

[fltbed]

The necks are oversized. Everything else is ok, you cannot even get them to crimp and hold a bullet it will hang in the cannula but isnt firm. I am thinking about getting a neck sizing die and after I run them through that then full size them. As it is I am just going to wash and dry my other ones I still have over 700 other pieces of brass to play with

If your necks are still oversized after sizing, chances are the problem is your expander ball on your decapping stem. A common modification to get more bullet grip, is to chuck this up in a drill and reduce the diameter of the expander ball a few thousands. (.003-.004 under bullet diameter is what I do)

Years ago, I got a large batch (almost 2K) of 308 brass that was fired in an M60 machine gun. The brass was so stretched out and oversized I had to use the sizing wax, plus use graphite on the inside of the necks, just to get them resized. I then had to trim almost .050 off them till they were ready to be loaded. After all that work, half of them started showing signs of case head separations after the second loading and I ended up scrapping the whole lot.

Last year, I was given a few hundred LC brass that must have been fired in a SAW cause they were almost as difficult to resize the first time and most had to be trimmed .040 before they could be used.
I’ve got two loadings out of that group and they still look fine so far.

Jeff

 

[WaMike]

I've been loading for (egads!....I just did the math!) over 40 years. Started out with a Hornady single stage kit, graduated to a Dillon progressive, but eventually sold the Dillon to someone who'd use it more.

It's a hobby thing for me, so I don't mind the single-stage press. I think it gives the newbie loader a chance to not screw up, and the experienced loader an opportunity to wring out the best loads.

I recently bought a Lee turret press because I load so many 38 Special, and I'll probably eventually get more turrets for other calibers. It's a good compromise between a single-stage and progressive press.

My cabinet is a jumble of various brands, but if one is buying dies, Lee is your friend....great products at a good price.

 

[oneyeopn]

My dies are good, its the brass that has been fired through a SAW. I will get some sizing wax and some graphite. I stil wonder about neck sizing them and then full length sizing. The neck is where they are hanging up so bad. I am going to hang on to them and make them work, I wouldnt want to pass off my problems. Although I still am going to send Bill a couple of handfuls.

 

[BHarada]

No stuck cases resizing my Winchester brass. But they all need trimming and the shoulders set back about .006" to be within the go-area of my Wilson case gauge. Setting the shoulder back is taking a couple of firm passes through the resizing die, but it's getting done.

I ordered a neck sizing die so in the future I'll keep a dedicated pile of brass just for the Mossberg.

I also ordered some 50 and 60 gr V-MAX bullets to try, but Grafs says that they're 3-4 weeks behind in shipping orders.

 

[GMC man]

I got templiq now and will try to anneal again tomorrow, I got a few blanks with the lot that was sent to me but fortunately I was cutting them to make 300's lol. Grover was the saw fired rounds from the same place?

 

[BHarada]

I got templiq now and will try to anneal again tomorrow, I got a few blanks with the lot that was sent to me but fortunately I was cutting them to make 300's lol.

My last batch shot brass resulted in four cracked necks so it's time to anneal the lot of those. I'm starting a collection of cleaned culls for use as sacrificial cases for positioning the torch and testing timing.

Looking forward to your process review.

 

[GMC man]

I changed to the 1/4 drive 10 mm socket and it worked great, the first time I held the case over the flame way to long, the templiq made a huge difference. One thing I found out is I can see it much better on the outside of the case and right now they are in the tumbler getting cleaned again.

The Templiq is yellow and turns black when at the right temp.

I put the cases in a metal pan instead of water as its not needed.

now this is when im ready for the tumbler

What do you think Bill?

 

[BHarada]

I read that the 750 Tempilaq shouldn't be used on the outside since it'll burn off on the neck and shoulder before reaching temp if exposed to a direct flame. Have you tried doing a test case with it applied both inside and outside to check that the inside turns color at the same time as the outside?

Of course a lot of old timers say that we're way over thinking this.

 

[zip777]

I must ask. Been following the templiq / annealing conversation but wondering why it's done...and does it need to be done? If so when???

 

[GMC man]

I read that the 750 Tempilaq shouldn't be used on the outside since it'll burn off on the neck and shoulder before reaching temp if exposed to a direct flame. Have you tried doing a test case with it applied both inside and outside to check that the inside turns color at the same time as the outside?

Of course a lot of old timers say that we're way over thinking this.

I did try the inside but with the method I was using I couldn't see the color change and the templiq didnt evaporate at all, I am also using the 650 templiq
I got that from this article which I pasted the important part.

June, 96 Cases

Another good article I read alot : http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

"Quick, uniform, consistent application of high heat is the key to good annealing. When the brass around the mouth reaches a temperature of about 660 to 665 degrees Fahrenheit, its surface becomes light blue. This is as hot as you want to let it get. If you let the color run too far toward the other end of the case, you can ruin the head by making it too soft. If you let the color on the neck go beyond light blue, and the shine disappears, you’re on the edge of ruining the case, and you may already have gone too far. If you let the case get red, it’s a goner.

But depending on getting the color just right is too loose and iffy to suit me. I prefer and recommend relying on something more dependable than personal color perception. The most reliable case thermometer I know is a 650 or 660 degree temperature-sensitive crayon called a temp stick. I’ll describe how to use it in a moment.

The hot, small flame of a torch is the only heat source you can rely on to give you the quick, local heat you need for selectively annealing the neck without heat-softening the base. High heat brings the neck and shoulder up to annealing temperature quickly, while the base end is still safely cooler; lower heat lets the base end get too hot while the neck and shoulder are getting just hot enough. Therefore, safe neck annealing takes high heat and a surprisingly short time. "

I must ask. Been following the templiq / annealing conversation but wondering why it's done...and does it need to be done? If so when???

The reason we anneal is to extend the case life, the more you fire brass it gets harder and brittle which will cause it to split and fail, bringing the temp up on just the neck and shoulder will soften the brass up again allowing more life to the case.

In my case the reason I am annealing is that I cut the current neck and shoulder off the case and reformed it to accept a .308 projectile for my new baby. The new neck and shoulder is to hard to withstand more then one firing without softening it back up like the original neck and shoulder was.

I hope I explained it ok the article I posted above gets into it much more and I would recommend reading it.

Note: sorry guys I was a bit tired when I posted this last night I just finished prepping and annealing 500 cases, I have a meet and greet with the local guys on the 23rd and had just received everything to hand load for the .300.

On a good note, after tumbling the brass all night most of the templiq has been taken off, Please let me know how the Hornady's method works out Bill.

 

[BHarada]

Thanks. And keep the updates coming. I sorted through my last batch of resized brass and found four cracked necks so it's time to anneal the whole lot...300+ cases.

 

[GMC man]

I did see what you mean by all the different methods and techs out there, it seems most of them contradict each other and swear they are the best ways lol.
I will be shooting these on the 23rd and will find out then if this method works well or have to find another

 

[BHarada]

For variety's sake I ordered some 450° Tempilaq and will try the Hornady method of temperature detecting, putting it below the shoulder. But the place I ordered it from says it's a special order item so I won't get it for a couple of weeks.

 

[BadKarmaZeroSix]

Zip - i dont reload, my brother loads my custom rounds, im lost too...all i know is i tell my bro how a round performs, and a couple days later he hands me another dozen or so rounds and says "try these, same distance" lol...

 

[oneyeopn]

GMCman...the SAW rounds came in a FTF trade. and they looked good. I would make you a trade and you could turn these into 300's real easy. it is the neck that is the trouble spot and you would be cutting these out. LOL
either that or I found a Wilson Full Length Die that you use in a hydraulic press to reform them one at a time.

 

[GMC man]

Dang and I just cut all the ones I received to. Well if I collect more I will ask before I cut, I cut about a 1/4 inch off right below the shoulders

 

[rebs081]

Grover the 1000 round batch of LC brass I bought from a guy on AR15.com was fired with an M16 on full auto and I size them with no problem using RCBS case lube on some and Hornady one shot on the others.
I have a friend that anneals his brass in a baking pan of water filled to the right height on the brass and when the color of the brass is right he just knocks them over in the water to cool. He says it works great for him. I personally have never annealed any brass.

 

[BHarada]

My 450° Tempilaq came in. Turns out the vendor I ordered it from is local to me, but the Tempilaq still drop shipped out of FL. No matter how Congress rags on the USPS, I love priority Mail service.

So I painted it onto my sacrificial cases, about 1/4" below the shoulder, then loaded it into a deep socket mounted in my cordless drill. For consistency's sake I opened up the propane torch valve all the way. I turned the drill on very low speed, maybe 3-5 RPM, and stuck the case neck in just above the point of the blue flame.

It took a slow three count to turn the Tempilaq black (it starts off as light gray). Then I dropped the case into an aluminum tray. As a precaution I had the tray nested on top of a second tray full of ice. It's not a big tray and I didn't want to be piling hot brass on top of each other.

Anyway, I ran ten scrap cases through the process to confirm the dwell time then proceeded to anneal cases for real. I only applied Tempilaq to the first two of these then just started counting to three before dropping them in to the tray.

On observation I made was that if the flame turned even a tiny bit orange I was about a count too long. Those resulted in the case neck turning a darker blue, but still having some shine to it. In the picture below the third case from the left is one that I left in the flame a beat too long.

So if you don't have Tempilaq try annealing some scrap cases and count how long it takes for the flame to flicker orange. Then back off one count with the next case and see if you get the proper case color. One thing to mention is that the color becomes more apparent once the case cools.

 

[oneyeopn]

Boy you guys have me thinking....but I will either get tempilaq or heat crayons and try....
I have Hornady One Shot. I am going to clean both dies and try different lubes.
QUESTION: Now if I take one of my Lee full length dies and back the mandrel up to the very top (decapping Pin) Might they size easier and then fireform better when I fire them....load em soft with a fireforming load?