Ammo cost and reloading

[crracer_712]

If you are wanting Dies, I'd just get the Lee pacesetter dies for the 223 remington. It has exactly what you need to reproduce factory ammunition.

As for a press, the Lee Classic Cast, and Challenger (although they are now all Breech lock loaders) are an excellent single stage press. I have the Challenger, but it was before they made them all breech lock. With Breech lock, Lee sells a breech lock adapter, with the intention to put one adapter on each die and then you simply screw that in to the press and it remains set from your last use.

IMHO, if a person was to go breech lock, I'd just get the Lee Classic Turret. It's not a progressive press, but it does contain all your dies in a 4 hole turret, and you spin the turret to the next step in the process (it will auto index, or you can do it manually).

Ebay has plenty of deal on older Lee Classic Cast and Challenger (non breech lock press) press if you want to try to save some coin. You can buy the Lee Challenger in kit form, that comes with the Perfect Powder measure, Lee scale and press(a little over a hundred bucks for the kit new), you add your dies, and you are ready to.

Case length gauge and trimmer are a must as well (bout 12 bucks for the pair)

 

[oneyeopn]

I have the Classic with the breech lock inserts. As I learned earlier I got the Pacesetter set with the case length gauge and trimmer for $33.25 to my door. I still think I got a good deal for the brand new complete set.
ReloadersChoice on Ebay but as we looked today they have sold 18 sets in the last week and a half!!

OH and I bought my Classic press complete kit with everything but the dies for $98 dollars on eBay also! Brand new in the box

 

[thumbs]

Thanks Rod

I have the Lee Classic Turret Press for my pistol calibers now. Yep with the quick change turret it makes it real nice. Just to the point now where I can be dangerous. LOL
Probably my first purchase will be the dies and the quick change turret. That will be a little while. I just bought the rifle. I will keep collecting brass though.

I will also have to ask you guys where to get bullets.

Oh what is the difference between the Pacesetter dies and the Deluxe die set?

Gives me something to think about. LOL

 

[oneyeopn]

Thumbs, as I figured out yesterday the Deluxe set has a collet neck sizing die and no factory crimp die. The pacesetter set has the factory crimp die but no neck sizer die. If you are loading for a particular bolt or single shot rifle you can use the neck sizer to reload the fireformed cases from that rifle for better accuracy, because the cases are already formed to fit the chamber. When reloading for Semi-Automatics or multiple rifles it is recommended to full length resize instead of just the neck. That is how I understand it. Maybe Rod or someone else will add more information.
Grover

 

[thumbs]

Ok than the Pacesetter is the set I need right? Also with my pistols I use 4 dies. Do I need another die for the rifle set other than the 3 they come with? Depending on that will determine if I need a three or four hole turret.

I found last night, while playin, that it looks like my Zip trim will run the rifle cases fine. So I won't need one of them to start. I will need the trimming tool though.

Ok I read somewhere about total length and neck length. The only thing you can do for length is trim the neck right? I think they were referring to either trimming using the back of the brass up against a holder, like in a trimmer where you set the distance from the back of the case or something like the Lee trimmers that use the inside primer hole as the reference point. Is it a big deal one way or the other? Of course the Zip used the inside primer hold.

I know it's best not to give me load data, I can look that up in the book, but can you tell me a good powder that is readily available that works well in the .223 in AR's? As of now that's the only rifle I will be loading it for.

Bullets, what seems to shoot best in the Sport? I know they seem to handle a pretty good spread of weights but what seem good for longer distances? Also where are you guys getting bullets? As of now it's probably best for me to get the powder and primers locally. I will probably only get 1k at a time so the extra hazmat stuff doesn't make sense.

 

[crracer_712]

Thumbs, as I figured out yesterday the Deluxe set has a collet neck sizing die and no factory crimp die. The pacesetter set has the factory crimp die but no neck sizer die. If you are loading for a particular bolt or single shot rifle you can use the neck sizer to reload the fireformed cases from that rifle for better accuracy, because the cases are already formed to fit the chamber. When reloading for Semi-Automatics or multiple rifles it is recommended to full length resize instead of just the neck. That is how I understand it. Maybe Rod or someone else will add more information.
Grover

Honestly, I'm not sure what is what between the sets. I see what they say on Lee, but when I view the instructions online, the crimp die in my deluxe set looks just like what they call the Lee Factory crimp die.

http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RM3508.pdf

It looks different the the factory crimp dies from the pistol sets I have.

This makes me wonder if I just ordered an extra crimp die for my 223, should be here today and I'll see....

 

[thumbs]

Yeah Rod me too. I was looking at the thing and was tryin to figure the difference. Anyway there is a name and price difference. I figure there has to be a difference somewhere. I understand the autos have be a little different than a bolt but which ones do we use? With the pistol there is a separate FCD. Should we have that on the .223? Idono 2

 

[oneyeopn]

Thumbs with my pacesetter set I have a full length sizing die a bullet seating die that will do a small crimp and a factory crimp die. that much I do know...my old 8x57 set doesnt have a factory crimp die and it does well, but they are bolt actions

 

[thumbs]

Ok then it looks like the pacesetter is the way to go with the full case sizing and "factory" crimp. I guess the other one is for bolts.

So the long and the short of it is I need a three hole turret.

Oh Cabela's has free shipping on orders of 49 dollars or more. Just an aside.

 

[crracer_712]

You can use the 4 hole turret and buy the rifle loading die to mount you powder dispencer on (if you use your turret press with a dispencer on it. The rifle loading die is universal for all rifle cartiridges.

I think the pacesetter set would be the safe way to go. But hang on! You might be able to buy the RGB set cause I might end up with a spare FCD die for 223..... We will see.

 

[thumbs]

Oh wait... yea one of the holes is for the powder drop, LOL

Is the rifle dispenser different? I have the Lee disk powder measure. I have whatever it is to load for pistol. Are they the same? I think they are the same with just the different disks. I have an adapter that stays with the turret and can move the powder dispenser from turret to turret. I just looked in the Lee reloading book and it shows the auto disk numbers for rifle. Didn't get to the shop to see if there are different sets for rifle and pistol but I kinda dough it.

 

[crracer_712]

The powder dispencer sits in the case flaring die of the pistol dies and drops its load when flaring the case mouth.

Rifle dies don't have this die. I believe this die is what takes place of the caliber specific pistol die that the powder dispencer attaches too.

 

[crracer_712]

I know you have the auto disk setup, do you have the disk doublers as well? You may not need them for 223. But if you find your auto disk will not dispence a load large enough for the 223, you'll want the Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure Double Disk Kit. It is used with the disks you already have to double the output.

Even with the disk doubler, it won't output enough for say a 30-06. In that case you would drop your drop load back to half of what you want, and simply drop two loads (which is also an option with your current setup without having to buy the auto disk double kit). But with the double kit, you can fine tune your loads as well.

 

[oneyeopn]

I know you have the auto disk setup, do you have the disk doublers as well? You may not need them for 223. But if you find your auto disk will not dispence a load large enough for the 223, you'll want the Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure Double Disk Kit. It is used with the disks you already have to double the output.

Even with the disk doubler, it won't output enough for say a 30-06. In that case you would drop your drop load back to half of what you want, and simply drop two loads (which is also an option with your current setup without having to buy the auto disk double kit). But with the double kit, you can fine tune your loads as well.

The load sheet that came with my Lee Dies for almost all powders says it needs the doubler...wasnt sure what they were talking about as I use the lee powder measure thing to drop the powder separately than my Press

 

[crracer_712]

That's the way we poor folk with single stage press do it Grover!

The auto disk and disk double work with either the Pro Auto Disk powder dispencer or the Auto Disk powder dispencer as you use it on the turret or progressive style press.

I'll probably go to the Lee Classic Turret press when I win the lottery (they really aren't that expensive, and in fact are only a couple bucks more than that Classic cast press you have). Since I'm loading for 243, 3006, 9mm, 40 s&w, and now adding 380 acp and 223 to it, I kinda like the idea of putting the dies in the turret press once and simply swapping out turrets when changing calibers. I'll be adding 7.62x54r and 300 aac before too long as well.

Until then, it's just me and my challenger press

 

[crracer_712]

Oh, and my Rat Terrior Cappy! and can't forget my cat Norman....

 

[thumbs]

yeah being able to just change out the turret is a heck of an advantage. To be able to set the dies once and done makes it worth it. Like you say it really isn't that expensive a set up.

I probably have all the disks. Heck I think there are about 4 of them on the bench. Not sure but more than two. It may be worth it to keep a powder measure just for pistol and buy another for rifle. It may make things a lot easier. Again not that expensive.

 

[Wolffire99]

DO NOT start reloading to save money! You will end up shooting twice as much!

When I crunch the numbers I save about 30% without counting the time I put into it. It will take me about two years to break even on the fairly modest setup I have. I'm sure by then I'll have found something that needs upgrading

 

[crracer_712]

I don't count the cost of equipment, I consider it a hobby and relaxing, just like the guns that the bullets are for

I'm still going to spend the money that I was going to spend in the first place, I just choose to allocate the funds differently is all

 

[thumbs]

YOu guys that are reloading for rifle. I'm thinkin here. Would it be better to get the Perfect powder measure rather than the Pro auto disk powder measure from Lee? My thinking here is with pistol it is easy to see the powder after it is dropped into the case. With the rifle it isn't so easy considering the small opening at the neck of the case. I was thinking it maybe safer to charge the case out of the press so you can see that the charge was dropped. Is this over thinking or is the standard practice?