S&W revolver ID needed...

[mred123]

Hello All,
Just received a S&W revolver and hope someone can give me a little info on it.
Made in USA...
On the right side barrel...hard to read...m38...3swctg x[?] 4

On the left side of barrel...Smith &Wesson...3 1/2 tons...above the n in Wesson there is ?nf with some kind of symbol above it[kind of looks like a small w] ...followed by '38 and .767"...also,there is a symbol on the same side in front of the trigger guard...and on the grip is a round inlaid silver metal circle.

Sorry, I can not get closeups with my touch pad camera

Would it be safe to shoot or does this model have some kind of inherent problem...thanks

 

[Road Rat]

It would help if you would provide the serial number from the bottom of the grip. I'm guessing it starts with a "V".

The caliber should be Smith & Wesson .38; this is NOT the same as the .38 Special.

It appears it also has British proof marks which is why I ask about the serial number. The "V" was for the victory model; revolvers made to be sent to England for use during WWII. They then did their own testing and "proof" marking.

 

[mred123]

Thank you for your answer...I thought it might be a Victory when I bought it on line but there is no serial number on the bottom of the grip...just the receiver metal between the wood grips...????
The FFL took numbers from the frame after opening the cylinder...4 numbers no letters...

 

[Allen-frame]

The actual serial number of your gun should be the most obvious in 3
distinct places.
1. on the butt of the gun between the grip panels.
2. on the back face of the cylinder.
3. on the bottom 'flat' of the barrel with the cylinder open.

It may start with a 'V' and should be 6 numbers.

If the serial number has been removed from the bottom of the grip
frame the gun should be returned to the original seller for a refund.

Then destroyed, as modification of a serial number is a criminal offense
and possession of a gun with the serial number removed is a felony.

The 4 digit number on the frame when the cylinder is opened is an
assembly number and not acceptable to use as a serial number.

Best of luck.

Allen Frame

 

[mred123]

Thanks...found it "on the back face of the cylinder and on the bottom 'flat' of the barrel with the cylinder open"...
I was worried there for a minute...
There is no V but there are 6 numbers...Does the absence of the V mean that it is not a Victory model?
So, what model is it and is it safe to shoot?

 

[mred123]

Does anyone know what the model is?

 

[linde]

Thanks...found it "on the back face of the cylinder and on the bottom 'flat' of the barrel with the cylinder open"...
I was worried there for a minute...
There is no V but there are 6 numbers...Does the absence of the V mean that it is not a Victory model?
So, what model is it and is it safe to shoot?

It's good that you found the serial number on the cylinder and barrel . . . but that doesn't mean you shouldn't still be worried about it's removal from the butt of the frame . . . I would follow Allen-Frame's advice and return it.

The grips would suggest you might have a pre-Victory Military & Police, but you'll have to share the serial number so more knowledgeable folks can tell you more. It would be 6-digits as A-F indicated and begin with a 7, 8 or 9. If you're reluctant to share the full s/n, show it as 765XXX.

Also helpful would be confirmation that the barrel caliber reads 38 S&W . . . and not 38 S&W Special.

Russ

 

[mred123]

ID needed...

Serial #770xxx
Markings say 38
Patented Dec 29,1914

I looked on the butt and there is no evidence of the serial ever being there...no sanding, abrasion of any kind or chemical removal. The ring for the lanyard is missing. The metal there is smooth and unscratched.

It was bought on Armslist...I will see how the seller feels about taking it back.

 

[Allen-frame]

the frame is the gun. the barrel and cylinder just parts. the absence of the serial number on the FRAME is my cause for concern.

check under the grips just in case the serial number was re located
there for some odd reason.
the absence of the V in the serial number indicates that your gun was
made in the late 1930s and then shipped overseas.

'' is the gun safe to shoot''? is like asking 'is a car safe to drive'?
it needs to be checked to assure it is mechanically sound.
this can be accomplished either by an educated you or a competent gun smith.
read the f.a.q.s , they are very helpful.

it is important that the cylinder has not been opened out to accept 38 SPECIAL rounds. these guns generally don't shoot well and may be unsafe to shoot.

good luck, again.

Allen frame

 

[mred123]

Thanks Allan for your answer...Have not been home home to check under the grips yet...But
If there is no serial on the butt frame...Would it be legal to force match the serial... similar to the Russian capture Mausers? thanks

 

[DWalt]

Legally, assuming the gun originally had a SN on its receiver or frame, it is a violation of the law for its SN to be removed or defaced in a manner preventing legibility. There are all sorts of opinions as to just how serious this violation is, but as a minimum, if you are caught with it, it would be confiscated. The penalty might be somewhat greater if you were involved in a criminal activity at the time. In a practical sense, your chances of being caught would be small.

There are legal ways to get a replacement SN assigned by BATFE, but with a gun of this minimal value, it is not worth the effort. The best advice would be to attempt getting your money, and all other expenses you incurred, returned by the seller. You do have the legal leverage to insist on that, as the seller did commit an illegal act. And you should inform him of that fact.

For that SN you provided, it would date from mid-1941.

 

[mred123]

OK...now...I am really getting confused ...would this revolver be considered a Victory model... or a S&W Model 10...?????

 

[DWalt]

Neither. It is usually referred to as a pre-Victory model M&P by collectors. The Model 10 appellation did not start until the late 1950s.

I'll add one more thing. These revolvers made for the British are also commonly referred to as .38/200 M&Ps as they were chambered for the standard British revolver cartridge, which was originally the same as the .38 S&W, but loaded with a 200 grain lead bullet, thus .38/200. Later on, the 200 grain lead bullet was dropped, and replaced with a 178 grain jacketed bullet.

The actual model name is the Model 1905 Hand Ejector, Military and Police, 4th Change. Those pre-Victory models were very similar in most respects to M&P revolvers S&W produced for the pre-war civilian market, except that they were chambered in .38 S&W. Virtually all S&W revolvers produced during 1940 and 1941 were supplied to the British Commonwealth, and were therefore chambered in .38 S&W caliber.

 

[mred123]

I understand "pre-Victory model M&P"...

I am keeping an index card on each fireafm that I have...so that my son would know what I have and their cost and value...
So, What would the approximate value be?

 

[DWalt]

In its present condition without a SN, the value is essentially zero as it is illegal to sell it. Or maybe some nominal amount for the value of its various parts.

 

[DWalt]

In its present condition without a SN, the value is essentially zero as it is illegal to sell it. Anyone who knew about the missing SN problem would never buy it. Or maybe it could be worth some nominal amount for the value of its various parts.

What happened to getting your money back from the seller? You could make life very difficult for him.

 

[mred123]

Took grips off...Serial number is inside the metal on the frame but is a different number...The seller has not answered my emails...