19 known nickel model 17-3s and some interesting information as to value. Ed 1/19/15

Oh , and for those of you wondering about the lazy ampersands
on the frame and barrel addresses ;

Yes , lazy ampersands were used into the 1970s. We have had many
cases noted where guns made from parts and even runs had
very old looking lazy As' all over the place.

My friend SNW_19-357 may come along and comment about the
ampersands.

Regards
Allen Frame
 
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Oh , and for those of you wondering about the lazy ampersands
on the frame and barrel addresses ;

Yes , lazy ampersands were used into the 1970s. We have had many
cases noted where guns made from parts and even runs had
very old looking lazy As' all over the place.

My friend SNW_19-357 may come along and comment about the
ampersands.

Regards
Allen Frame


Thanks for that answer. I asked about this on the SWCA side but got no response.. There is more info here on this side! Thanks again for the answer on the ampersand. I was confused about it.

Mark
 
How about a model 10 from 1972 with the serial number
stamped on the cylinder and barrel flat???



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Allen Frame
 
Thanks for that answer. I asked about this on the SWCA side but got no response.. There is more info here on this side!
You have to remember that we each have our own interest and/or focus and what may apply to one type or model may not apply to another so doesn't fall into their area of interest. Some may not pay attention to rollstamps at all but look at many things that we would never even consider.
But, one of the great things about the S&WCA is that get a bunch of us together (like the meetings, etc.) and if ‘I’ don’t know the answer, ‘I’ can certainly find you someone there that does!
Doc44 wrote two excellent commentaries (Part I Part II) on the ampersands used on N-frames.

Of course, like everything S&W, what is true for one model may not be true for another model and frame size.;)

The early “-3’s” are some of the most interesting to me because of the many changes to the rollstamps and ampersands. Just like it varies between different models, it can also differ in the same model number depending on barrel length and finish…
At least for the Model 19, the lazy ampersand on the frame seem to have been used until late 1971 and the mid-2K4xxxx range for the 4” and 6”. They were used until late ’71 on the 2.5” Model 19(-3) too but that was the mid-1K’s, below 1K5xxxx.

The ampersand on the left side of the barrel for a M19-3 went from a pretty modern looking upright ampersand to an “8c” looking one around 1969 (K89...) and was used until ‘71 (2K4...). They went back to the modern one until a neat little “ε” one showed up sporadically around the time the 2.5” M66 came out, 6K6xxxx. By about 1977 the neat little ampersands seemed to have been replaced by the modern upright one we see from then on.
(Of course some of the revolvers with the lazy ampersand on the frame didn’t ship until much later and the “8c” and modern “&” are mixed there for awhile near the end but, you get the idea.:))

The ampersand that Allen has on his M17-3 I haven’t seen on a Model 19 since the K6’s, although I have seen two 4” M66’s in the high 4K’s that oddly enough have a similar ampersand.
 
1. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought I read the N was missing. It is there. No doubt it is original. On the front sight, mine are blued. If being nickeled on this early gun is correct that is news to me.

2. Masterpiece- Don't call me pig. That is insulting and I don't like it.
 
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You have to remember that we each have our own interest and/or focus and what may apply to one type or model may not apply to another so doesn't fall into their area of interest. Some may not pay attention to rollstamps at all but look at many things that we would never even consider.
But, one of the great things about the S&WCA is that get a bunch of us together (like the meetings, etc.) and if ‘I’ don’t know the answer, ‘I’ can certainly find you someone there that does!
Doc44 wrote two excellent commentaries (Part I Part II) on the ampersands used on N-frames.

Of course, like everything S&W, what is true for one model may not be true for another model and frame size.;)

The early “-3’s” are some of the most interesting to me because of the many changes to the rollstamps and ampersands. Just like it varies between different models, it can also differ in the same model number depending on barrel length and finish…
At least for the Model 19, the lazy ampersand on the frame seem to have been used until late 1971 and the mid-2K4xxxx range for the 4” and 6”. They were used until late ’71 on the 2.5” Model 19(-3) too but that was the mid-1K’s, below 1K5xxxx.

The ampersand on the left side of the barrel for a M19-3 went from a pretty modern looking upright ampersand to an “8c” looking one around 1969 (K89...) and was used until ‘71 (2K4...). They went back to the modern one until a neat little “ε” one showed up sporadically around the time the 2.5” M66 came out, 6K6xxxx. By about 1977 the neat little ampersands seemed to have been replaced by the modern upright one we see from then on.
(Of course some of the revolvers with the lazy ampersand on the frame didn’t ship until much later and the “8c” and modern “&” are mixed there for awhile near the end but, you get the idea.:))

The ampersand that Allen has on his M17-3 I haven’t seen on a Model 19 since the K6’s, although I have seen two 4” M66’s in the high 4K’s that oddly enough have a similar ampersand.

Thanks again. I had just assumed someone would have jumped on that over on the "other side", and I didn't really want to bother Bill AGAIN with my ampersand questions, but Smith did some confusing stuff!

How about an UPRIGHT ampersand on a 1962 gun???? ( N- Frame)
 
...Smith did some confusing stuff!
That's what makes it so much fun.;)

How about an UPRIGHT ampersand on a 1962 gun???? ( N- Frame)
In the four line?

I know. I have a 19-1 from Nov, 62 and a 28 from Aug, 61 that have that ampersand. Just one of those stamps they used for a bit until it wore out or something.:)
But we were talking about -3 K-frames. Including other decades and frames will drive you nuts.:D
 
It all drives me nuts, but that is half the fun...

Now if I could RETAIN alot of it.....

fuggetaboutit!
 
Allen, that gun is simply stunning, I'd love to own something so unique/cool as that, and Chris sure does know his stuff :)
 
Allen, I am late to this thread but finally got around to taking a few detailed photos of a factory nickel Model 48 I own that illustrate some interesting differences between my gun and yours. The gun shipped to H.H. Harris on April 15, 1960. It is a 4 screw with an 8 3/8" barrel with target hammer and trigger, blued red ramp front sight and white outline rear sight. There are no markings on the grip frame to indicate a nickel finish. The visible rear of the cylinder and barrel flat are not marked with serial number or N but there is an N on the cylinder under the extractor star and the star is marked with the serial number. The gun was listed with having shipped with checkered target grips but came with the smooth targets when I purchased it. I have seen several Harris guns with fancy smooth grips and wondered if he kept a stash to put on his fancy guns? The Model 48, like the K22 was never cataloged in Nickel but Herbie Harris seemed to be able to get most anything he wanted and many unusual Harris guns are seen.

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My first post here. I also have a K-22 that i believe to be factory nickel. I will get it out later and give the details on it. I also have another large frame in 44 Special that apears to be factory nickle as well. it has a large square target front sight on it.
 
Ok here goes, Mine says K333033 Mod-17 inside, K 333033 on the bottom of the grip, 333033 and a star on the flat under the barrel, 333033 on the cylinder under the ejector star,

On the cylinder arm there is stamped 70823 with a K under that and 70823 is alst stamped on the left side of the frame under the grip.

It has a target hammer and a target trigger and a blued ramp front site with orange insert. Rear site is also blued.

Also on the left side of the frame is a R-N inside a rectangle stamped.

Ity looks exactly like the Model 48 pics above except for the grips.
 
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