Terrifying 4th/2nd Amendment Story!

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DigiRebel

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Sorry if this has already been posted, I looked and didn't see it... Also I posted here because this is more a 4th Amendment issue, but seriously touches on 2nd Amendment rights.

Delaware Open Carry ? Delaware Open Carry

Terrifying story. In short the NJ Department of Youth and Family services brought police to a man's house because they *HEARD ABOUT* a picture of his son holding a .22 rifle (that happens to be scary and black [its an M&P 15/22]). The police were demanding access to the man's firearms without a warrant, and even threatened to take his children away because he wouldn't waive his constitutional rights.

1) Again, the idea that there aren't certain members of the government who want to confiscate guns is just a lie. Yeah, Obama himself hasn't come straight out and said he wants to... but MANY of the people in the party that he heads HAVE said that.

2) Some people call gun owners paranoid... and want to make the argument that the Government can't or won't do bad, illegal stuff if it thinks it can get away with it. This story proves that it not only CAN but DOES happen. As someone who isn't preparing for the next civil war, this kind of thing makes me worry. The truth is that its not paranoia if it actually happens.

3) The argument "What about the CHILLLLDDRREENNNNN?!?!" *SHOULD* only hold so much water. The fact that NJDYFS (and other DYFS around the country) seem to think that they are above the law is highly disturbing. ESPECIALLY because I have kids. I am sure groups like this do good, but unchecked, they can do a lot of harm. Threatening to take a child away from his parents in the middle of the night because they heard a story about a picture of the child holding a LEGAL firearm? Abhorrent.
 
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It blows my mind that so many of them resort to the, "You gun people are all paranoid lunatics!" line of argument.

I admit, we DO have some fairly nutty people on our side... of course, so do they.

Do I think confiscation is a current goal held by most of the antis? No. Do I think that the horrors that have been committed in the past are on their agendas? No.

My concern isn't the current batch of bozos, its the batch that comes tomorrow, or next year, or when my little girl is my age, or my eventual grandkid is my age.

One thing that the Government has definitely shown is that when it grabs power, it does not let go of it without a fight. There were folks all up in arms about US PATRIOT Act, when the last guy was in office. Now that the glove is on the other hand, did they repeal it? Nope, they STRENGTHENED it.

THAT is my concern. If we give an inch now, they will demand a mile tomorrow, and neither side is going to repeal a ban or anything like that. Remember that the 1994 ban wasn't repealed, it was ALLOWED to expire.
 
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DigiRebel said:
Sorry if this has already been posted, I looked and didn't see it... Also I posted here because this is more a 4th Amendment issue, but seriously touches on 2nd Amendment rights.

Delaware Open Carry ? Delaware Open Carry

Terrifying story. In short the NJ Department of Youth and Family services brought police to a man's house because they *HEARD ABOUT* a picture of his son holding a .22 rifle (that happens to be scary and black [its an M&P 15/22]). The police were demanding access to the man's firearms without a warrant, and even threatened to take his children away because he wouldn't waive his constitutional rights.

1) Again, the idea that there aren't certain members of the government who want to confiscate guns is just a lie. Yeah, Obama himself hasn't come straight out and said he wants to... but MANY of the people in the party that he heads HAVE said that.

2) Some people call gun owners paranoid... and want to make the argument that the Government can't or won't do bad, illegal stuff if it thinks it can get away with it. This story proves that it not only CAN but DOES happen. As someone who isn't preparing for the next civil war, this kind of thing makes me worry. The truth is that its not paranoia if it actually happens.

3) The argument "What about the CHILLLLDDRREENNNNN?!?!" *SHOULD* only hold so much water. The fact that NJDYFS (and other DYFS around the country) seem to think that they are above the law is highly disturbing. ESPECIALLY because I have kids. I am sure groups like this do good, but unchecked, they can do a lot of harm. Threatening to take a child away from his parents in the middle of the night because they heard a story about a picture of the child holding a LEGAL firearm? Abhorrent.
Click to expand...
Remember the old saying "there's 3 sides to every story"?

Reserve judgement for the moment and wait for the other 2 sides to come out,right now this particular story is making the rounds in the New Jersey,Pennsylvania/Delaware area with a single source relaying the circumstances and loudly promoting the story...the child's father.
This gentleman is all too well known to the firearm community in our area and has a well deserved reputation as a self promoter and attention seeker.
So loudly and enthusiastically was he relaying the circumstances with even some potentially damning and inflammatory statements that he was warned to be quiet,take the advice of his lawyer and the tread wiped clean if not for his benefit at least for his family's.
This gentleman earlier in the day posted a picture of a large wad of money proclaiming to have won $5000.00 in a office pool and refused to acknowledge that perhaps it was unwise, even foolish to do so on a public forum, earlier last year relayed a story about a convicted felon with the same name and how he was going to sue Face book and the authorities because they used his image in attempting to detain said felon.
If indeed accurate, the authorities have done this family a grave injustice but there are those among the firearms community who are all to familiar with this gentleman and his antics and wisely prefer to reserve comment or condemnation of the authorities least they be associated with another attention seeker or disturbed individual and what may potentially prove to be a justifiable action.
 
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duppie said:
Remember the old saying "there's 3 sides to every story"?

Reserve judgement for the moment and wait for the other 2 sides to come out,right now this particular story is making the rounds in the New Jersey,Pennsylvania/Delaware area with a single source relaying the circumstances and loudly promoting the story...the child's father.
This gentleman is all too well known to the firearm community in our area and has a well deserved reputation as a self promoter and attention seeker.
So loudly and enthusiastically was he relaying the circumstances with even some potentially damning and inflammatory statements that he was warned to be quiet,take the advice of his lawyer and the tread wiped clean if not for his benefit at least for his family's.
This gentleman earlier in the day posted a picture of a large wad of money proclaiming to have won $5000.00 in a office pool and refused to acknowledge that perhaps it was unwise, even foolish to do so on a public forum, earlier last year relayed a story about his close,personal friend...supposedly charged with murder suing Facebook for infringement because his picture was used by the authorities to find him.
If indeed accurate, the authorities have done this family a grave injustice but there are those among the firearms community who are all to familiar with this gentleman and his antics and wisely prefer to reserve comment or condemnation of the authorities least they be associated with another attention seeker and what may potentially prove to be a justifiable action.
Click to expand...

Interesting take. I am, of course, not familiar with the person. I do plan to keep a close eye on what's happening here...

Also, thanks for sharing the insight on this! Perhaps I should say I hope for justice to be done. Whoever is actually in the wrong in this case, I hope they get the comeuppance due them.

I think I should also clarify that I am not trying to personify LEOs in general as bad folks. I appreciate the things they contribute to the community at large (just no so much when I am the one getting the speeding ticket! :D ).

As a parent though, the threat of taking children out of their homes and beds in the middle of the night is a fairly scary thought.

To be honest, I don't know what I would do if someone came and made that kind of threat in my home, and that too is frightening to me.
 
DigiRebel said:
Interesting take. I am, of course, not familiar with the person. I do plan to keep a close eye on what's happening here...

Also, thanks for sharing the insight on this! Perhaps I should say I hope for justice to be done. Whoever is actually in the wrong in this case, I hope they get the comeuppance due them.

I think I should also clarify that I am not trying to personify LEOs in general as bad folks. I appreciate the things they contribute to the community at large (just no so much when I am the one getting the speeding ticket! :D ).

As a parent though, the threat of taking children out of their homes and beds in the middle of the night is a fairly scary thought.

To be honest, I don't know what I would do if someone came and made that kind of threat in my home, and that too is frightening to me.
Click to expand...
This story has legs and will probably be going national soon if it already hasn't... which is all the more reason why his local community is being wary of any opinion either way.Further,I believe his local firearms forum account is temporarily suspended least he does any damage to his case or cause a liability issue to the forum.
The events went down late Friday night and has been tirelessly promoted since in any media that would listen and quite frankly if I and my family was wronged in such a manner I would consider doing the same but what is troubling is the gentleman's well documented credibility issues and ceaseless self promotion.
 
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It could be that the father might have drawn attention to himself and provoked a relative or acquaintance into dropping a dime on him to the family services people by being an arrogant, offensive, loud-mouthed braggart and know-it-all. If that is true, it is a shame, because as far as I know, none of these traits are illegal and certainly do not warrant this kind of response.

Remember when everyone was up in arms because a man' rifle had "malfunctioned" and gone full-auto at a public range, and he had been charged by Federal authorities? It turned out he wasn't quite as innocent as he pretended to be.
 
Jersey has been anti gun since the 1960's. NJ LE is the same.

I attended the NJSP Academy in 1974 and got into quite a verbal argument with one of the Troopers who was VERY anti gun. He was spouting all sorts of erroneous data one day...next week I brought in some data to refute his.

It's New Jersey, rats all living too close together. Makes then nutty.
 
1984

Dick Rumbaugh said:
Just remember this;" Big Brother is Watching You". From a movie in about 1950. Might come true sooner than was predicted.
Click to expand...

George Orwell's book 'Nineteen Eighty Four' or often just '1984' was published in 1949 and there have been more than a few TV and movie adaptations made of it over the years. He also coined the words 'doublespeak', 'thought crime' and 'newspeak'. It didn't happen in 1984 as Orwell predicted, but it's happening right now. I'd recommend it to anybody that hasn't read it, or at the very least see one of the movie versions.
 
redlevel said:
It could be that the father might have drawn attention to himself and provoked a relative or acquaintance into dropping a dime on him to the family services people by being an arrogant, offensive, loud-mouthed braggart and know-it-all. If that is true, it is a shame, because as far as I know, none of these traits are illegal and certainly do not warrant this kind of response.

Remember when everyone was up in arms because a man' rifle had "malfunctioned" and gone full-auto at a public range, and he had been charged by Federal authorities? It turned out he wasn't quite as innocent as he pretended to be.
Click to expand...
A very likely scenario,He has cleaned up his Facebook page,erased several videos on Youtube, all wise moves and probably recommended by his counsel and muzzled on his local gun forum however the draw of notoriety has him still posting inappropriately on a out of state open carry forum where again some members advised against saying any more.A reporter from The Blaze recently posted that no story or pictures of his son will be published until such time as both sides of the incident is heard and disseminated.
His story is popular fodder on many firearm and pro 2'nd Amendment sites with much incensed and supportive comments... I only hope that in the rush to condemn and use this incident to illustrate the increasing erosion of our rights they haven't backed a false hero....It would not reflect well on the shooting community and supply ammo to those who are not with us.
 
However, the Blaze just posted this story... it seems his lawyer who is not only well know, but also respected for his work regarding 2nd Amendment Rights in NJ at least corroborates some of the story.

The issue seems to not have been the police pushing for the violation of his 4th Amendment rights, but the DYFS worker. The police, as reported, behaved professionally, and were there solely at the request of DYFS.

Dad: This Picture of My Son Holding a Gun Triggered a Visit from NJ Police, Family Services | TheBlaze.com
 
My Gawd! Can't people mind their own "blanking" business. If we had the internet back when I was a kid I would have ended up in foster home.

At least the young man knows something about gun safety. He's holding the weapon properly with his finger off the trigger.

It's a shame the person who reported the false allegations can't be held liable.
 
I posted some pro-gun material on facebook. Somebody reported me and said I was misrepresenting myself. Facebook booted me off and I can't get back on. Just as well, people post a lot of mindless drivel on there.
 
WOW - are we still in the USA?

This gent is a frequent poster on the New Jersey gun forum, where I'm pretty active (sadly, I'm a lifelong NJ resident)
He was pretty much posting a play by play as it was going down, not good at all, but he's got good representation, so here's hoping he comes out on top.
Just a glimpse of what life is like for a firearms owner here behind enemy lines.
 
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WOW - are we still in the USA?

Dupe post, my apologies
 
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