Concealed Carry

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Bengal07

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Are the training reqmts for concealed carry permits in your state adequate/appropriate---not questioning whether such permits are or not infringements on rights-----but whether the existing laws protect the safety of the general public---some people get permits with little to no actual hands on firearms instruction---makes me cringe when I see such people at public shooting ranges, shooting their brand new toy on their own with no adult supervision.
 
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The requirements in Ohio are not onerous although the class spent a lot more time on safety than I expected and less time on legal issue. But given that the instructors were firearms experts and not lawyers and the rules and regulations for safely handling a firearm are a lot less subject to change and interpretation than legal issues it was a good and worthwhile training even if it was not a requirement.

Now I just have to figure out where to go fill out my application for the permit.
 
In N C all you need do is shoot 50 rnds @ 80% to qualify. I personelly would like to see a little more of the safety issues addressed. I have seen some people I don't think I would trust.
 
you are

They keep switching requirements here in Wisconsin. How it stands now (I think) is training is required but no time frame or test is required. Which means you have to get training but... Well here are the newer rule changes, you can read into them.

1. Elimination of any time requirement for the firearms safety and training course
2. Elimination of the word test from the definition of firearms safety and training course
3. Elimination of any time requirement for firearms instructor training
4. Elimination of the instructor’s signature from the certificate affirming they taught the course to the student
5. Elimination of any instructor contact information on the certificate
6. Elimination of the location where the training was provided from the certificate

I'm torn. I think this is inadequate but I also firmly believe there shouldn't be any requirements or permits needed. A right recognized that requires a permit?

More importantly than accuracy or shooting requirements is the moral aspect of any training. You are not a deputy sheriff that gets to thwart crime just because you have a pistol on your person.
 
I'm afraid they are not stringent enough here in Tennessee. We have about a half day of class room work followed by 48 rounds at the range. It is terrifying to watch some of the applicants...who actually pass. One shooter had to come into the office twice for first aid during her range session. In spite of repeated warnings by the test administrator she kept looping her left thumb around behind the grip on her rented auto. She did not pass but only because she kept missing the target completely.

Ed
 
Training

What concerns me is that self defense training in firearms is more than just knowing how to aim and pull the trigger or understanding the subleties of legal issues.. We trust law enforcement with firearms on and off duty----and expect that they will make the correct decision when confronted with a situation of shoot or no shoot----and we crucify them if on review they should not have taken the shot. Many, if not all law enforcement, go though actual shoot/no shoot training actually firing their weapons. Years ago I had occasion to cycle many of my Marine MPs through the FBI Academy shoot/no shoot training in Quantico. The training was superb--but it's more than training---it's mental training and emotional capacity. I am wary of many former military who get waivers for training for CCW from the states just because they "qualified" with a firearm while on active duty. Many of them have never been trained in shoot/no shoot scenarios and very rarely actually fired their weapons. Grantimg such waivers is at the least--risky. I think it would help the cause if advocates for concealed carry insist on rigourous standards---after all-----the intent of concealed carry is not to let the bad guy know if you have a gun and then shooting the bad guy if he presses his luck--not just shooting at paper targets----some one will get seriously hurt if not dead based on what that CCW holder does,
 
In Alabama we just fill out an application, undergo a criminal background check ( not NICS, there's a bill going before the Legislature to require NICS checks for permits) pay the $10 or $20 fee and you're good to go.
 
In Pa you need to pass the background and pay the fee. You dont need to even own a gun prior to application

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We had, as of about a year ago, about 600,000 licensees in Georgia. I would guess that figure is at least 25% higher now. The requirements are in addition to age, a background check and having enough money to pay the fees.

I realize that many from more "progressive" states are appalled at the lack of requirements for training. In fact, I haven't noticed a spate of accidents in Georgia resulting from this perceived deficiency. I would say that, based on that observation, GA's requirements are more than adequate.
 
As with the majority on this forum, I would tend to think, I've been shooting since I was a kid. I opted to go around the Texas training/certifying because of the time involved. There are instructors here giving the non-resident Floridian classes that are very weak but will get you a license legal in Texas.

It consisted of 4 hours class time and pulling the trigger of .22 cal JC Higgins revolver mounted to a homemade, plywood bullet trap full of newspaper. The class hours were excellent and very informative and I learned things that you would not normally consider.

When I looked around the class, I could tell that the vast majority of the people (~50 total) had never fired a handgun in their life. This type of certification, IMHO, is absolutely WRONG and it's a scary thing. Yes, I took advantage of it and got my license but when I look back on it, I should have gone the other way and not supported this type of class.
 
I recall when I took the course I fired 40 rounds. The range was short, so I didn't miss any (I fired a 2" group). NC requires a full 8 hours of training. Much of it is when/when not to shoot (from a legal standpoint). After the course, you go to the Sheriff's department and take a test. I would say the process is doable and fair and should provide some protection.

You do not need to own a gun in NC to get a carry permit. The instructor will provide a gun to use for the course and no gun is listed on the carry permit. For a total noob, I guess they could get the permit and still be dangerous with a firearm they aren't familiar with.
 
We do things a bit different due to the intricacies of NYS law.
First off counties are allowed to issue permits under basically their own rules as long as they stay within the parameters of NYS law (AKA the Sullivan law from about the early nineteen hundreds.):rolleyes:

In New York its basically illegal to even touch a pistol unless it’s on your permit. Its hardily enforced and people shooting do trade gun on the ranges for few shots or let someone else shoot, but no trading unless you real close by. No loaning a handgun or letting someone barrow it to say go hunting. . (Most gun stores insist on seeing you CCWP before they open the glass and let you handle a gun your thinking of buying)

That rule prevents a person applying for a permit the LEGAL opportunity to fire gun during the applying for a Pistol Permit stage. In most counties you now have to go to a rather long lecture that sometimes involves coming back for a couple times or perhaps spending the whole day. You LEGALLY cannot touch a gun, but some instructors do bring pellet guns. That also means no shooting to qualify. You learn shooting after you get your permit/gun!:confused:

When the class/es are over and you jump through the many hoops depending on the county you live in you might get a PP issued. Then you take the JUDGE signed paper to the store fill out more federal paper and take your gun home.

****FWIW in NY you need this CCWP to even own/possesses, have a pistol in your own home. Again depending on your judge/county even so you have what is called a CCWP the judge might limit it to Hunting & Fishing only or other restrictions that basically limit the Carry Concealed part.****

Now with the new passed “SAFE ACT” they figured out a few new ways to harasses/limit honest gun owners.

I was an early instructor of the then new Pistol Permit Pre Issue safety course that our county judge insisted on back about 1975. He wanted people to take a course like that and actually it was not a bad idea and a bunch of us NRA pistol instructors talked to him and he allowed us to do the course and issue cards. Since its easy beginning it spread to many more counties but of course the powers-that-be have just about quadrupled the time and cost required to attend the course.
 
5-Shot said:
I'm afraid they are not stringent enough here in Tennessee. We have about a half day of class room work followed by 48 rounds at the range. It is terrifying to watch some of the applicants...who actually pass. One shooter had to come into the office twice for first aid during her range session. In spite of repeated warnings by the test administrator she kept looping her left thumb around behind the grip on her rented auto. She did not pass but only because she kept missing the target completely.

Ed
Click to expand...

Looks to me like the system is certainly stringent enough...the purpose in not to train for "combat". Seems the OP feels everyone should have to meet FBI or Military standards to get a carry license (per post #6 in this thread).....I'm sure our liberal/progressive politicians would love to implement that requirement.

In regards to the lady in Tennessee that did not pass and get her license....well, the system worked...she could not demonstrate that she could safely handle and fire a firearm and she did not get her license.

Don
 
Last edited:
bigride said:
What kind of answer are you fishing for?
Click to expand...

That sounds like a fair question.

I live in a shall-issue, castle-doctrine, stand-your-ground state legally speaking. I'm glad of that, because I'm old and vulnerable due to physical problems. I've also been a shooter and gun-owner all my life.

As to the original question, I won't comment except to say that I don't like or use the term "permit" because it sounds servile--I prefer the term "license". It has to be earned, and is.

When Kentucky went to shall-issue status our local newspaper, which was and is anti-gun, predicted blood flowing in the gutters and innocent civilians being slaughtered in droves. It hasn't happened. When blood flows in the gutters in Louisville, as in most large cities, it's typically the result of gang and drug activity, and committed by people who are often less than proficient with their illegally-obtained-and-carried weapons.

In a perfect world everybody with a concealed carry license would be rated expert with the handgun of choice. This isn't a perfect world or a perfect society.
 
Bengal07 said:
What concerns me is that self defense training in firearms is more than just knowing how to aim and pull the trigger or understanding the subleties of legal issues.. We trust law enforcement with firearms on and off duty----and expect that they will make the correct decision when confronted with a situation of shoot or no shoot----and we crucify them if on review they should not have taken the shot. Many, if not all law enforcement, go though actual shoot/no shoot training actually firing their weapons. Years ago I had occasion to cycle many of my Marine MPs through the FBI Academy shoot/no shoot training in Quantico. The training was superb--but it's more than training---it's mental training and emotional capacity. I am wary of many former military who get waivers for training for CCW from the states just because they "qualified" with a firearm while on active duty. Many of them have never been trained in shoot/no shoot scenarios and very rarely actually fired their weapons. Grantimg such waivers is at the least--risky. I think it would help the cause if advocates for concealed carry insist on rigourous standards---after all-----the intent of concealed carry is not to let the bad guy know if you have a gun and then shooting the bad guy if he presses his luck--not just shooting at paper targets----some one will get seriously hurt if not dead based on what that CCW holder does,
Click to expand...


So what would you like? More rules and regulations? :rolleyes:
 
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