First time firing my 360 PD bad experience

[malph]

It's save to say that neither the handgun nor the ammo was the right equipment/supply.
Bad advice for a first time buyer. Very bad.

Those revolvers are highly specialized, designed for weight saving when carrying.
The load they take should be considered very carefully.
There is tons of info out there for damages on those revolvers from hot loads.

A polymere semi auto in 9mm would have been more adequate.
.357 Magnum isn't really a primary self defense round anyways, unless you're in wild animal terrain.

100%. Its a specialized revolver. It's a niche gun. That these ultralight revolvers can suffer from crimp jump is not a secret.

It's a physics issue and I'm not sure how you could ensure it would work with all ammo.

It's a specialized tool. I'm glad they exist but it's a really poor choice for a first revolver.

It would be like a brand new rifle shooter choosing a really powerful, ultralight mountain rifle for their first rifle.

 

[larondo]

I'm not a fan of hot & heavy high pressure handgun rounds.
Unless I'd be in wild animal territory, I'd pack a .454 Casull.
Since I'm barely leaving city limits, 9mm or .45 are splendid & reliable rounds.

 

[Ed333]

I owned a titanium/scandium snubby revolver for exactly one week, and had sold it by the end of the week. And that was shooting only .38 special, and not even +P. Have stuck with steel frames ever since.

 

[malph]

I owned a titanium/scandium snubby revolver for exactly one week, and had sold it by the end of the week. And that was shooting only .38 special, and not even +P. Have stuck with steel frames ever since.

They are indeed brutal.

 

[njr]

i feel for the OP. He made a mistake and has taken a physical and financial beating, That said, the clown at the gun store is equally or more to blame. Some shops have guys who know their stuff and are great, BUT, some are buffoons or self proclaimed"experts". I've got a female friend from church. Never shot anything, went to a shop and dude had "Just what you need". Sold her a 642 and +P ammo. She went to their range, fired it a couple times and left-scared to death of the gun and zero confidence in herself. A couple years later she was talking to a (non shooter) friend. He know I shoot a Lot and had her talk to me. I started her on a .22 and we worked our way up, over many session, until we tried her .38 with target loads. Finally after a lot of effort and a lot of practice I got her comfortable shooting her .38 with standard loads. Wrong gun/ammo for a new shooter.

Yeah I had a 360j overrun from the Japanese police tested it by firing some Buffalo bore 38 Special. Doing martial arts for a number of years I was too gung-ho and I think I pulled some ligaments in my hand and forearm. Took months to heal properly. Ended up selling the gun to a machinist in downstate Illinois who probably has Popeye forearms and 200 lb crush grip strength.

Chris Baker of Lucky Gunner loads guns like that with soft shooting wad cutters.

The gun would be really good on the ankle or in a coat or shirt jacket pocket.

When I would carry my 638 on the hip I didn't really like it because it was so light I would forget I was carrying a gun.

For that reason I prefer steel. Couple years ago I loaded up my 36-1 with Underwood hardcast semi-wad cutter 158 grain plus p for defense against road ragers while on my electrical bicycle. I might go with that load again in my 36 no dash. Or maybe I'll keep it in my 36-1. It's a heavy barrel from the lady NYPD Force 1976. It even has a relieved trigger guard for gloves. It's not really attractive they put a matte finish and some sort of coating on the gun for weather or wear I suppose but I bought it for self-defense not for looks.

 

[njr]

Definitely possible now, even in the main cities.
I got my LA city ccw 3 years ago. Never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.

A note on snubbies. So many people recommend them to ladies as a first gun- for which they're terrible. Some guy on reddit wanted to argue with me that a stainless 4" .357 (with. 38s) wasn't a better first choice since you couldn't carry it. I was done with reddit

I know of at least two 'hardly fired' .38 snubs sold by women.

I once took two organizers out from the Bernie Sanders campaign to the nice Jewish gun range in Chicagoland.

Small lady liked the snub nose revolver as I remember. Thought that semi autos were too complicated.

One lady trainer really recommends carrying a snub nose in the purse from which you shoot out into the bad man.

The 12 lb trigger press on an alloy snub nose is pretty ferocious. However on the hidden hammer models it's better than on the humpback because of spring geometry.

I had my trigger pull lightened to 8 lb.

I think a snub nose revolver would be viable for ladies for 90 to 99% of self-defense situations and perhaps even preferable.

However you would probably want to practice with wad cutters in an alloy frame centennial with a good set of grips. If I were them I would practice Sykes fairbairn method out to 3 yards, then maybe some sighted fire culminating in a 555 test.

That said Claude Warner did note that most of the American public ignores revolver advocates and just buys the small 380 ACP semi autos.

 

[DRankin]

That said Claude Warner did note that most of the American public ignores revolver advocates and just buys the small 380 ACP semi autos.

Yup. And about zero training.

Ask any one of them if they can perform a type three malfunction drill........ or better yet find one of those .380 advocates who even knows what that means.

 

[Law-dog]

I have had 21 surgeries and I think that the 6 spinal surgeries affect my overall body a whole lot, but we both seem to really enjoy shooting and we do what we can when and how we can. I agree with your comments about Buffalo Bore. Tim Sundles is a "hands on" owner/operator and after watching many of his videos, I know that he explains the differences in the Buffalo Bore Ammunition and he has many videos showing his vast gun collection that he personally uses for self-defense, hunting, and ammunition research and development; so I do believe that he knows what he is talking about, and he extremely transparent. I tried the ergo grips on my Model 43c, and they really don't work for me as they feel awkward. Oh well, it was only about a $20 experiment, and Lord knows I've a boxes of "experiments!" One thing's for sure..... when the pain stops, I know I won't be "here" anymore! HALLELUJAH!!!

That was exactly my position. Only $20. They actually do help with the really hot ammo, which brings me to a point, do I really need that stuff? LOL

 

[Law-dog]

I'm not sure why you posted this to me. I did not say I had bullet jump. I said with the 38 length case, you have some room in case of jump. "I" don't need info on how to shoot or hold a gun etc. I think shooting a .454 one handed is fun. Believe me, I have more experience shooting, instructing, duckin bullets than you.

Sure you do. How many years military Mine spanned 29 years. Oh, I have a 454 too.

 

[Law-dog]

Hi. I also had a problem with my 360! Did the same thing, started with 38s, went to hot 38s, went to mild 357s & then a little hotter 125s at 1400, & the cylinder locked up! What happened is that on recoil some how the cylinder stop dropped & allowed the cylinder to jump a little forward, so you couldn't pull the trigger. Called S&W & they blew me off. I stripped it again & checked all the parts & it was fine so I shot more rounds. Over time I put lots of rounds including fairly hot 357s & haven't had any more problems even with 14-1500 125s. But....when I carry it as aback up or in the pocket for a store run, I use the Underwood 125 +P 38s at 1250, just in case. Also, you have some room if you have a bullet jump, with the shorter case. Like I said, after the first time, no problem, but once for a gun you carry is "once" to many. That's why when I carry a 357 I carry my 3" M60! It shoots everything!

And that 3 inch model 60 is about as cute a little gun as they ever made. Mine shoots 158 grain loads about 1,205 fps. It is not pleasant but not brutal either. Love the gun, looks like a big gun but it is not. Adjustable sights are great in the daytime, but I just put a Crimson Trace laser on it and they are great, at night or low light, shoot the thing from the hip all day long. Love the little guy.


The full size ammo is factory JSP 180 grain bullets, and the little guys are 38 Short Colt loaded for the grand daughter.

You can load the Short Colt to 357 pressures, they eject faster than the longer cases.

 

[Jcon72]

And that 3 inch model 60 is about as cute a little gun as they ever made. Mine shoots 158 grain loads about 1,205 fps. It is not pleasant but not brutal either. Love the gun, looks like a big gun but it is not. Adjustable sights are great in the daytime, but I just put a Crimson Trace laser on it and they are great, at night or low light, shoot the thing from the hip all day long. Love the little guy.


The full size ammo is factory JSP 180 grain bullets, and the little guys are 38 Short Colt loaded for the grand daughter.

You can load the Short Colt to 357 pressures, they eject faster than the longer cases.

I have the dash-4 in .38 Spl and totally agree with you. Cutest little thing ever, and it's not unpleasant at all to shoot.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Not going to wade through the entire thread; it does sound that Buffalo Bore had too much of too much.
Will say, owning a 340, and having fired a buddy's 360, the Chief's version is the nastiest kicking little SOB ever (remember, I own a 340....). The Chief version sits higher in the hand than the Centennial.
Smith's Ti guns are often an answer to an unasked question. Just parted with a 325, the darn thing just wasn't much fun. Can't even imagine a 329.
Look, love my 340 as a hiking gun, first two/three chambers with snakeshot, remainder with full charge WCs or 140 FMJ magnums (ouch). It's fine shooting the full charge WCs.
But let's keep the Ti stuff to places where light weight actually makes sense.
Moon

 

[larondo]

I have the dash-4 in .38 Spl and totally agree with you. Cutest little thing ever, and it's not unpleasant at all to shoot.


View attachment 792041

That's a nice looking Model 60 w/ Boot Grip.

Model 65 Lady Smith in .357 Magnum, .38 spl shoots just fine.
Except, more burnt powder will dirty up the front of cylinder quickly. Because of the slightly shorter case length.

I think it's a -7 or -8, hence the trigger lock. Can be modified/plugged. It doesn't create a problem.

 

[Revelation]

That was exactly my position. Only $20. They actually do help with the really hot ammo, which brings me to a point, do I really need that stuff? LOL

You know, I've been questioning myself a lot lately, "Do I really need that stuff?"

 

[crasig]

I ended up selling every alloy frame handgun I bought shortly after testing - either painful, or clacking like a bag of junk -inspiring NO confidence. I no longer even consider them.
The WORST was a FEG P-63 9x18 - It felt like I'd hacked my hand with a hatchet - Seriously
Now a confirmed STEEL frame owner.
Here's a Mug shot of the miscreant = BEWARE

 

[GnarlsR2]

I'm glad to read that ZephyrR1 was not injured.
In 47 years I have never shot a +P round.
I don't recall any of my 12 active range buddies using a +P round.
Is a standard , non +P 357 magnum round NOT lethal enough?

 

[Shibadog]

The gun in question is chambered in .357 Magnum. It may be unpleasant to shoot with heavy loads. But any SAAMI factory .357 ammo should be safe to shoot in any gun factory chambered for it. I love Smith and Wesson, have a bunch of their stock in my retirement portfolio, and own a dozen of their revolvers. That said, some of their later production, especially alloy frame guns in my experience, is not as good as it should be. I have shot a few very heavy bear loads in my 60-18, which is all steel, they are accurate and foolproof. Recoil is fierce. I have shot 2 of the same load in a Ruger LCR 1 7/8" .357. They will kick the lard out of your biscuit, but no mechanical issues. The load is Starline brass, mag primer, Lil'Gun powder, and a 187 gr. Cast Performance hard lead gas check bullet. 1325 FPS out of the 5" Smith 60-18.

Remember though a few years back several compact .357's came with ammo restrictions because of the "kinetic bullet puller" effect from certain rounds with certain bullet weights (I seem to remember it being the lightweight .357 slugs). Heavy recoil with rounds that are not tightly crimped can indeed result in slugs moving and locking up a cylinder. Rounds in question work just fine in heavier steel guns which have less recoil due to the weight of the firearm.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Is a standard , non +P 357 magnum round NOT lethal enough?

Good point. Encounter the same dilemma with +P 9mm. A P365 will handle it, mechanically, but the combination of greater recoil, slower follow up shots, and eventual gun wear makes it a bad idea for me.
Save the hotrod loads for full-size service pistols.
Moon

 

[GnarlsR2]

I'm glad to read that ZephyrR1 was not injured.
In 47 years I have never shot a +P round.
I don't recall any of my 12 active range buddies using a +P round.
Is a standard , non +P 357 magnum round NOT lethal enough?

I had dinner with 8 range buddies last night. I asked who loads +P into their defense carry, and 2 of 3 guys said they load a +P round for their carry, but shoot standard for practice and at the range. One guy is a retired Deputy Sheriff, the other guy is former Firearms Instructor.

Guy #3 said he loads standard 9mm in his defense carry. I asked why the +P round, they both said "velocity".

 

[Well Armed]

I see humor is not your strong point. So be it.

They do sell ammo outside of SAAMI specs. They just add a +p or a +p+ to make it "ok".

There is nothing dishonest about that statement. It is what they do.

That there are industry standards for some cartridges using the +p designation and they use such designation where standards to do not exist could be construed as misleading.

I am sure there are buyers of this stuff that think they are buying something that is actually adhering to an industry standard when they are not.

If SAAMI doesn't have specs for something, you can't be out of it. It's simple logic that's lost on you. To say BB sells ammo outside of SAAMI specs is to imply that the specifications and BB has ignored them, which is NOT the case.

SAAMI has specs for the 9mm cartridge, so if BB sells 9mm that's not within those specs, then their 9mm is out of SAAMI specs. Likewise, SAAMI has specs for the 9mm +P cartridge, so if BB sells 9mm +P that's not within those specs, then their 9mm +P is out of SAAMI specs. SAAMI has not recognized 9mm +P+ or even 45 Super cartridges, so it's impossible for any manufacturer to make ammo within specs that don't exist. Likewise, legislators have not written laws making specific action illegal, then you can not logically be acting outside of the law when performing that act.

SAAMI has specs for 9mm +P and other +P cartridges that ammo and firearm manufacturers can adhere to. 9mm and 9mm +P are completely different cartridges, each with their own specs! Like 38 Spl vs. 38 Spl +P, guns can be chambered to shoot the 9mm cartridge only, for which there are specs for, or the 9mm and the 9mm +P cartridges. SAAMI may recognize and create specs for the 9mm +P+, 45 Super, and any other cartridges they don't have specs for yet in the future, and if or when they do, then and only then can BB or any ammo manufacturers be in or out of their specs.

When you buy a gun, the manufacturer tells you what cartridge(s) the gun is rated for. If the manufacturer says the handgun is rated for 22 LR, 32 H&R, 380 ACP, 9mm, 9mm +P, 30 Super Carry, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 ACP +P, 10mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 327 MAG, 44 Spl, 44 MAG, etc., then ALL OF BUFFALO BORE'S AMMO THAT'S IN THOSE AFOREMENTIONED CARTRIDGES WILL BE WITHIN SAAMI SPECS! NOT ABOVE THEM!

Every cartridge that Buffalo Bore sells that SAAMI has specs for is within SAAMI specs! Buffalo Bore is NOT selling 22lr, 32 H&R, 380 ACP, 9mm, 9mm +P, 30 Super Carry, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 ACP +P, 10mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 327 MAG, 44 Spl, 44 MAG, and so on and so forth that are out of SAAMI specs, like so many uneducated clueless internet "experts" keep accusing them of doing!