First time firing my 360 PD bad experience

[Well Armed]

This is absolutely not true and two clicks to the Buffalo Bore website makes this plainly obvious.

Buffalo Bore offers some SAAMI compliant ammo and a whole lot of non-SAAMI compliant ammo.

SAAMI uses the term +P for a very select few handgun cartridges. 9mm, .38 Special and .45 Auto have SAAMI standardized limits for +P. The .38 Super cartridge is knowlingly denoted with a +P for the select purpose of further distinguishing it from the old .38 ACP.

Any other handgun cartridge with a +P added to it is not SAAMI compliant and yet Buffalo Bore offers a fat load of these across many different calibers.

Buffalo Bore that is not SAAMI compliant and never has been:
.32 ACP+P
.32 H&R Mag+P
.32-20Win+P
.380 Auto+P
9x18 Makarov+P
9mm+P+
.40+P Smith & Wesson (interesting name)
.44 Magnum+P
.44 Magnum+P+
.45 Super
.45 Auto Rim+P
.460 Rowland
.45 Colt+P
.500 JRH
.500 Linebaugh

Buffalo Bore makes some fantastic ammo and Buffalo Bore has helped to open up some eyes, but the truth matters.

You're being misleading and what I said is true. The projectiles that you listed can never be SAAMI compliant because no SAAMI specs exist for them to comply with! That's the equivalent to saying that someone's actions isn't in compliance with the law when no no law even exists that makes deemed their actions illegal.

All BB ammo that SAAMI actually has specs for are SAAMI complaint. Within the context that we and everyone else is discussing, several members have ignorantly eluded to that the ammo that BB makes, which SAAMI has specs for, goes above those specs. We aren't referring to projectiles in which no specs exist, but rather even common projectiles like, for example, 38 Special (+P), 357 MAG, 45 ACP, 10mm, etc. as being above SAAMI specs. That's just NOT true, and it's a common myth and perpetuated lie! There's nothing beautique, special, or "custom" about these offerings as they all are within spec.

 

[nhw]

Hi. I also had a problem with my 360! Did the same thing, started with 38s, went to hot 38s, went to mild 357s & then a little hotter 125s at 1400, & the cylinder locked up! What happened is that on recoil some how the cylinder stop dropped & allowed the cylinder to jump a little forward, so you couldn't pull the trigger. Called S&W & they blew me off. I stripped it again & checked all the parts & it was fine so I shot more rounds. Over time I put lots of rounds including fairly hot 357s & haven't had any more problems even with 14-1500 125s. But....when I carry it as aback up or in the pocket for a store run, I use the Underwood 125 +P 38s at 1250, just in case. Also, you have some room if you have a bullet jump, with the shorter case. Like I said, after the first time, no problem, but once for a gun you carry is "once" to many. That's why when I carry a 357 I carry my 3" M60! It shoots everything!

Hi everyone, I thought I'd go to the range yesterday and try out my 360 PD, and give it a good test. So I packed up my stuff and headed out. Going to try out 38 special, and 357 mag. Started out with 38 special, fired 15 rounds beautiful, great so I loaded the cylinder with 357 140 grain Buffalo Bore heavy load, so here goes boom and said to myself I'm not doing that again. Okay went to open the cylinder and can't guns completely locked up.so l got the range manager and asked for help not knowing what's going on, thought maybe a round jumped its crimping and jammed. So he says he'll get someone else guy, comes over and says he'll get someone else's now going on my third person and I'm waiting with a hot pistol still jammed. Third person says he has to take to the back, me waiting what happened. Nice guy comes back and got it open, shows me the case looks good then shows me the adjacent round bullet jumped the case by pretty much. Also shows me the brass split about 3/8 to 1/2" . And also shows me that the cylinder has cracked and there's a star arm missing on the extractor. 1 more thing theirs a scratch on the cylinder side probably getting it open. I did call S&W to start a warranty claim I have to send it to them. Never heard anything like this, any thoughts. Some Pic's, RayView attachment 790427View attachment 790430View attachment 790431View attachment 790432
View attachment 790428

Sorry to hear about your problem. It may have been something happened to your revolver before you ever purchased it. That would be my guess. I have one of these "bad boys". I carry mine a some point every day. You buy an 11 ounce Scandium frame titanium cyclinder for a special reason. It's light weight and the powerful ammunition. I fired mine the first time with American Eagle 158gr jsp ammunition. First shot, wait I got to put on a shooting glove. Second shot, nope I need the thicker all leather shooting glove. Ended up shooting 15 shots total. My hand was seriously bruised, my trigger finger had a swollen area on it. A week or 2 later acquired some +P 38 special. Didn't notice much of a difference in recoil. I now use Federal 357 HST ammunition in it. It isn't a range gun for sure but that isn't purpose. Out of all the pistols I own it has the worst recoil. I also own a 329PD and a 3" 629 deluxe. They are stout but not like the 360PD. I did swap the grips for some nicer and wider wood ones that cover the backstrap. However, just no getting away from that 11 ounces and the recoil you are gonna get. Good luck. I sent in a 317 for some repair this year. Smith and Wesson did a perfect job. Took about 3 weeks.

 

[tygar]

Looks like you proved exactly what Buffalo Bore says about jumping crimp. That is pretty predictable a I have stated on here several times. I have a suggestion if you will be doing that in the future.

Work on your grip strength and try rigid shooting gloves. The little guns are light and with a stronger grip, not so likely to jump crimp. When a person cannot hold them steady, the muzzle rises quite a bit and the crimp is a weak point.

Or just shoot them in steel guns like the ammo maker says. Just a thought. I finally decided that if I really needed more power, I can just use that 2.5 inch gun already chambers in 44 mag, it works really well and has nearly twice the 357 mag power when coming out of those 1 7/8 o 2.5 inch guns.

Just a thought.




From Buffalo Bore: These are about 1,400 fps in a 2 inch gun. They use the code word, "all steel" as the metal these guns are made from.


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I'm not sure why you posted this to me. I did not say I had bullet jump. I said with the 38 length case, you have some room in case of jump. "I" don't need info on how to shoot or hold a gun etc. I think shooting a .454 one handed is fun. Believe me, I have more experience shooting, instructing, duckin bullets than you.

 

[nvcdl]

One has to wonder if the person who sold the revolver and ammo to this lady though it would be a good trick to sell her the hottest and nastiest 357 load. I carry an all steel 640 and load it with the mid range power Remington's Golden Saber 125gr load.

I'd suggest sending the revolver back to S&W and that the owner of the store be informed of what happened if only for educational purposes.

 

[malph]

You're being misleading and what I said is true. The projectiles that you look listed can never be SAAMI compliant because no SAAMI specs exist for them to comply with!

All BB ammo that SAAMI actually has specs for is SAAMI complaint. Within the context that we and everyone else is discussing, several members have ignorantly eluded to that the ammo that BB makes, which SAAMI has specs for, goes above those specs. They aren't referring to projectiles in which no specs exist, but rather even common projectiles, e.g., like the 38 Special (+P), 357 MAG, 45 ACP, 10mm, etc. as being above SAAMI specs. That's just NOT true. There's nothing beautique, special, or "custom" about these offerings as they all are within spec.

We are playing semantics here. If BB produces a 380acp cartridge that exceeds SAAMI specs but then calls it 380+p, are they really complying with SAAMI specs?

Depends how you look at it I suppose and it's certainly not only BB that does that.

I am not the biggest BB fan not because I have problems with the company but because I don't believe I need to push my guns that hard to achieve whatever effects I am trying to achieve.

Of course there are exceptions to that.

Your milage may vary.

 

[ZephyrR1]

1. At this point you're correct; send it to S&W and see what happens.
2. "JRD" mentioned in the 2nd post that Buffalo Bore's warning--while being on their website--is not printed on his particular box of ammo. In fact, he said his box says, "For use in all 357 Mag firearms in normal operating condition." Did your box of ammo have the proper warning or does it say it's safe for all .357 Mag firearms? IMO the answer to that question makes a huge difference in determining liability on their part.
3. You say you "should have bought another piece instead of Smith Wesson." No, that's just plain silliness because the gun didn't fail during normal usage. That ammo would have been safe in an all-steel S&W revolver. The brand of gun had 0% to do with what happened; the wrong ammo for the gun (regardless of whether the ammo box was marked properly) is what caused the problem. That's like using an Oxy/Acetylene torch to heat up a can of Del Monte pork & beans, then telling everyone you never should have bought Del Monte brand of beans because you burned a hole in the can.

Thanks I will reread my box and try to get back

 

[Well Armed]

We are playing semantics here. If BB produces a 380acp cartridge that exceeds SAAMI specs but then calls it 380+p, are they really complying with SAAMI specs?

Depends how you look at it I suppose and it's certainly not only BB that does that.

I am not the biggest BB fan not because I have problems with the company but because I don't believe I need to push my guns that hard to achieve whatever effects I am trying to achieve.

Of course there are exceptions to that.

Your milage may vary.

Yes, you are playing semantics. If no specs exist for a projectile then it's impossible for someone to be within the specs. There aren't any specs for some projectile calibers. There's no specs that exist 380 +P, but specs do exist for 38 Special +P. You can't claim something is out of spec when no specs exist.

In any event, we aren't talking about and the thread has not been about the Buffalo Bore projectiles in which specs do not exist, even though you attempt to move the goalpost towards that direction. Everyone but you are referring to BB offerings for common projectiles in which specs do exist. They're saying BB is above those specs, and that is not true.

As an aside, not liking or being a "fan of" an ammo manufacturer because they offer a fraction of heavier projectiles for customers who want it and have firearms who can handle it sounds silly, IMHO, but you are welcome to your opinion. Most of their offerings are geared towards outdoorsman activities, so not using neutered for a weak projectiles is paramount. If you choose not to run their more powerful offers in which SAAMI doesn't have specs for, you have a plethora of options that fall within SAAMI standards. If you don't like the handful of offerings they have because it doesn't suit your needs, simply don't buy those offerings.

 

[njr]

You might say I was proofing it, I would think And expect 357 is just 357 down the road it's just a 357 to me I'm a person who just wants personal protection. The Pistola says 357 right on my pistol…Thanks for posting I can take the hit and blame. Maybe I'll wait till California has another buy gun grab. I'm scared to shoot it again and I had no intentions to carry 357 only home defense rounds P plus. I'm not an expert only an average guy who purchased 360 PD as I'm handicapped. I do you have a return label, Sorry for the rant.

From your description of the situation and my own experience with gun store douches it sounds like Sundles was liable for not making sure that a warning was printed on the box and the range retards should have known the product well enough not to sell you those rounds for that gun and should have known how to extract rounds under crimp jump without breaking your ejector star and bending your ejector rod.

Maybe you get lucky however and the ejector star and rod is the only thing that's irreparable.

Let us know what happens. I will pray to the ghost of Dan Wesson for you.

 

[DRankin]

Maybe we can settle one thing. Here is the picture of the ammo/box in question.

"For use in all .357 Mag firearms in normal operating conditions"





This one, directly from the current BB web page is clearly different.








Added thoughts: I am intrigued (mystified) as to how an unfired round of ammunition can split like that; especially since the fired case shows no sign of splitting.

Excessive recoil can certainly pull bullets in adjoining chambers but this is very different. This looks like defective, out-of-spec, brittle brass.

Maybe BB does has some issues here, but I still would not expect much for them.

I am also thinking that is a very old box of ammo.........

I wonder how long it sat on the shelf at that store and if they saw a sucker come through the door.

 

[malph]

Yes, you are playing semantics. If no specs exist for a projectile then it's impossible for someone to be within the specs. There aren't any specs for some projectile calibers. There's no specs that exist 380 +P, but specs do exist for 38 Special +P. You can't claim something is out of spec when no specs exist.

In any event, we aren't talking about and the thread has not been about the Buffalo Bore projectiles in which specs do not exist, even though you attempt to move the goalpost towards that direction. Everyone but you are referring to BB offerings for common projectiles in which specs do exist. They're saying BB is above those specs, and that is not true.

As an aside, not liking or being a "fan of" an ammo manufacturer because they offer a fraction of heavier projectiles for customers who want it and have firearms who can handle it sounds silly, IMHO, but you are welcome to your opinion. Most of their offerings are geared towards outdoorsman activities, so not using neutered for a weak projectiles is paramount. If you choose not to run their more powerful offers in which SAAMI doesn't have specs for, you have a plethora of options that fall within SAAMI standards. If you don't like the handful of offerings they have because it doesn't suit your needs, simply don't buy those offerings.

You sound triggered. I still contend it's semantics. In your view, I can exceed SAAMI pressures but as long as I add a +p or +p+ it's fine as long as those designations have no official meaning for the given cartridge.

That is certainly a way to look at it.

And no, I don't in general use that stuff in my guns. I don't see the point but obviously others do.

 

[Shibadog]

i feel for the OP. He made a mistake and has taken a physical and financial beating, That said, the clown at the gun store is equally or more to blame. Some shops have guys who know their stuff and are great, BUT, some are buffoons or self proclaimed"experts". I've got a female friend from church. Never shot anything, went to a shop and dude had "Just what you need". Sold her a 642 and +P ammo. She went to their range, fired it a couple times and left-scared to death of the gun and zero confidence in herself. A couple years later she was talking to a (non shooter) friend. He know I shoot a Lot and had her talk to me. I started her on a .22 and we worked our way up, over many session, until we tried her .38 with target loads. Finally after a lot of effort and a lot of practice I got her comfortable shooting her .38 with standard loads. Wrong gun/ammo for a new shooter.

 

[Well Armed]

You sound triggered. I still contend it's semantics.

Resorting to immature gaslighting in a middle of a discussion that was never personal and was strictly a debate between to men about difference of opinion is a tell tale sign about who's "triggered."

In your view, I can exceed SAAMI pressures but as long as I add a +p or +p+ it's fine as long as those designations have no official meaning for the given cartridge.

Yes, +p+ isn't a part of SAMMI specs as well as other projectile calibers that BB and a range of manufacturers offer. You can't be out of spec of something that has no specs.

And no, I don't in general use that stuff in my guns. I don't see the point but obviously others do.

That's fine, but in general, every caliber that they provide that there are published SAAMI specs for are within those specs. To assert that they sell ammo outside of SAAMI specs is being intellectually dishonest and misleading. Selling standard 9mm and 9mm +P or or 38 Special or 38 Special +P that's within SAAMI specs because they have specs for +P is one thing. Selling ammo that's supposed to be within SAAMI specs that actually exist but aren't within those specs is something else entirely.

 

[Bohonkie]

I've owned a 560PD just like yours for several years, except I put a laser grip on it - the small, plastic size, not the comfortable bigger rubber size. I had a bunch of Winchester Black Talon, 180 grain, ammo so I shot two boxes of the stuff one afternoon. No problems at all with the gun but my shooting hand thumb was numb and tingly for almost two weeks! This is an 11 ounce gun and I don't intend to shoot heavy stuff in it again. If you think something is wrong with the gun, send it back to S&W. They'll arrange and pay for the shipping and probably investigate, repair, and return for free. At least they have in the past. Take care - mj

 

[malph]

Resorting to immature gaslighting in a middle of a discussion that was never personal and was strictly a debate between to men about difference of opinion is a tell tale sign about who's "triggered."



Yes, +p+ isn't a part of SAMMI specs as well as other projectile calibers that BB and a range of manufacturers offer. You can't be out of spec of something that has no specs.


That's fine, but in general, every caliber that they provide that there are published SAAMI specs for are within those specs. To assert that they sell ammo outside of SAAMI specs is being intellectually dishonest and misleading.

I see humor is not your strong point. So be it.

They do sell ammo outside of SAAMI specs. They just add a +p or a +p+ to make it "ok".

There is nothing dishonest about that statement. It is what they do.

That there are industry standards for some cartridges using the +p designation and they use such designation where standards to do not exist could be construed as misleading.

I am sure there are buyers of this stuff that think they are buying something that is actually adhering to an industry standard when they are not.

 

[larondo]

Wow! This thread is one hell of a ride!

I wonder, what means "to carry around". Does the OP have a CCW?

 

[afret]

Wow! This thread is one hell of a ride!

I wonder, what means "to carry around". Does the OP have a CCW?

Probably close to impossible to get a carry license in CA.

 

[saki302]

Probably close to impossible to get a carry license in CA.

Definitely possible now, even in the main cities.
I got my LA city ccw 3 years ago. Never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.

A note on snubbies. So many people recommend them to ladies as a first gun- for which they're terrible. Some guy on reddit wanted to argue with me that a stainless 4" .357 (with. 38s) wasn't a better first choice since you couldn't carry it. I was done with reddit

I know of at least two 'hardly fired' .38 snubs sold by women.