My first squib

B

BeachBumShooter

Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
66
Reaction score
68
Gentlemen,

After almost two decades of casting and reloading my own practice ammo I had my first squib during my last range trip! Dang it! In the back of my mind, I have always considered a squib possible but after many tens of thousands of rounds that went bang, I thought maybe my reloading process was good enough. But obviously I was wrong, and it was my turn. I have read in articles and heard from other reloaders that if you reload or shoot long enough, you'll experience a squib. That bit of information held true for me. And YES, the description of what it sounded like was "Pfuzzz....." and no notable recoil, this was just like it's been described to me before.

I was shooting 158 grain cast LSWC out of my model 60-9. After the "Pfuzz" sound I kept the muzzle down range thinking hang fire. After a few seconds, nothing, so I tried to open the cylinder, nothing, locked up. Knowing I had two live rounds left I put it away until I got back home. Sure enough, when I shined my bore light down the muzzle there it was, a LSWC bullet lodged in the forcing cone with some amount still in the cylinder throat.

I use a pretty heavy roll crimp, and I have experienced a few cartridges over the years when the primer went off but without any powder in them, the bullet didn't break the crimp or broke the crimp and only moved a little bit. So, I have failed to drop power in the past and on a rare occasion have had rounds that go bang with a much greater recoil than expected, too much powder. But I'm guessing this time I made the mistake of having just enough powder in there to launch the bullet into the forcing cone. Dang it!

I'm pleased that it took me this long to experience a squib and thankful it locked up the gun as to prevent another trigger pull!

Anyway, the takeaway, regardless of experience or skill level, that Murphy guy doesn't care!
 
I had one a few years ago with a 9mm reload. Soooo, I know it was something I caused. Probably a case that got a light powder charge or none at all. Bullet was partially stuck in the barrel so the next round couldn't camber. Lucky me.

I don't use a progressive press and visually check ever case for powder before I seat. It still happened because of my careless inspection. At least that's I'm thinking happened.

Glad there was no damage to you or the firearm.
 
LostintheOzone said:
I had one a few years ago with a 9mm reload. Soooo, I know it was something I caused. Probably a case that got a light powder charge or none at all. Bullet was partially stuck in the barrel so the next round couldn't camber. Lucky me.

I don't use a progressive press and visually check ever case for powder before I seat. It still happened because of my careless inspection. At least that's I'm thinking happened.

Glad there was no damage to you or the firearm.
Click to expand...
The same with me, I don't use a progressive press either. I have a RCBS Big Max which I don't think has been made in several years. Got it in 1982. I also check each and every casing with a flashlight in my 44's before putting the bullet in. Then I know it's safe to seat.
 
BeachBumShooter said:
Gentlemen,

After almost two decades of casting and reloading my own practice ammo I had my first squib during my last range trip! Dang it! In the back of my mind, I have always considered a squib possible but after many tens of thousands of rounds that went bang, I thought maybe my reloading process was good enough. But obviously I was wrong, and it was my turn. I have read in articles and heard from other reloaders that if you reload or shoot long enough, you'll experience a squib. That bit of information held true for me. And YES, the description of what it sounded like was "Pfuzzz....." and no notable recoil, this was just like it's been described to me before.

I was shooting 158 grain cast LSWC out of my model 60-9. After the "Pfuzz" sound I kept the muzzle down range thinking hang fire. After a few seconds, nothing, so I tried to open the cylinder, nothing, locked up. Knowing I had two live rounds left I put it away until I got back home. Sure enough, when I shined my bore light down the muzzle there it was, a LSWC bullet lodged in the forcing cone with some amount still in the cylinder throat.

I use a pretty heavy roll crimp, and I have experienced a few cartridges over the years when the primer went off but without any powder in them, the bullet didn't break the crimp or broke the crimp and only moved a little bit. So, I have failed to drop power in the past and on a rare occasion have had rounds that go bang with a much greater recoil than expected, too much powder. But I'm guessing this time I made the mistake of having just enough powder in there to launch the bullet into the forcing cone. Dang it!

I'm pleased that it took me this long to experience a squib and thankful it locked up the gun as to prevent another trigger pull!

Anyway, the takeaway, regardless of experience or skill level, that Murphy guy doesn't care!
Click to expand...
Can you explain your reloading process?
 
Here is the follow up to my first squib. Using a wooden dowel and a plastic hammer I tappy tapped the bullet out of the forcing cone back into the cylinder throat and partially back into the case. Opened the cylinder and started "forensic analysis". From the amount of travel of the wooden dowel I could tell the shoulder of the SWC bullet stopped just inside the forcing cone with most of the main barrel of the bullet stuck in the cylinder throat. When I dumped the fired brass, live rounds, and squib out into my hand I noticed a small amount of unburnt powder, maybe 6-7 tiny flakes. I then pulled the bullet and found a few more tiny flakes of powder inside the case and the base of the bullet was solid black with carbon. The brass looked normal.

My conclusion for the cause of the squib is most likely a very light or just the tiniest bit charge of power. Which knowing my process it was let's say, a self-induced "operator error" squib. Dang it!

Got to pay attention! But pulling the handle, getting in the zone and letting your mind wonder while running a progressive press is some dang gooood therapy for what ails ya! Or it is for me........
 
Last edited:
Always Faithful Holsters said:
Can you explain your reloading process?
Click to expand...
My reloading process? Well, my reloading process has been more of an evolution than a process. I started reloading with the ol' "wack a mole" Lee Loader. I produced several thousand very time-consuming quality rounds that way and only set off a dozen or so primers during the process. I was new to reloading so I was hypersensitive to doing it right. I learned much by doing every single step in reloading process manually. Except my wife started missing me and the occasional primer exploding in my hands became annoying. And the worst part is I could not produce rounds as quickly as I could shoot them.

I graduated to a Lee single stage press and powder measure. Boy, my stubborn ass should have gotten a single stage press after about 100 rounds of using the Lee Loader, but hey, nobody ever accused me of being all that bright. Using the single stage press I produced over 15,000 high quality rounds, every one of them went bang and were waaaay more accurate than me. Still, I spent about the same amount of time reloading as shooting and after more than 15k rounds, let's just say the newness and excitement of reloading had worn thin and I had mastered the process. The big takeaway is for me is with handgun ammo you don't need to produce the super high quality ultimate consistent match type ammo for offhand killing of paper or steel targets. You don't notice how accurate your ammo is at twenty-five yards or less or at least I can't.

Next up is my current reloading process using a Dillion 550C progressive press, I have produced somewhere around 50k rounds in the last 8-9 years with the Dillon. Unfortunately, this is the reason I produced a squib load. Let me explain.
I now focus on quantity of rounds over quality of rounds using the progressive press. I produce or purchase the components in large numbers. When I process brass, I do it by the bucket full. I size, de-cap, and then wet tumble. I normally cast projectiles in the cold months producing many thousands of for each caliber I reload. I buy primers by the case and powder in 8 LB jugs. So, most of the time I have enough components of any caliber to feed the dillion and spit out a few thousands rounds in just a few hours on a rainy Saturday. The Dillion stays covered up most of the time.

What caused the squib? Short answer is likely ME. When things are running well and everything is clean and tuned up, just pull the handle and make ammo. Easy peasy, right? Well sometimes things happen, primers stop feeding or go in backwards or maybe a piece brass gets damaged or split, or I don't place the bullet right, or maybe some odd other thing happens. And I like to check the powder drop every so often. When one of those things happen, you have to restart the progression and during restart you might have to dump a throw of powder or re-prime a case. And for my 38 Special loads I use Bullseye powder which, even with an aftermarket LED light on the press, I can't visually see the powder charge to check it. So, this is where I think the squib load was produced. I may have been fixing an issue, dumped out a powder charge and put that case back in sequence, indexed it, and kept making ammo. Bullseye powder has tiny grains and likely a small amount was left in the case after dumping causing a squib.

Yes, switching to a powder that fills the case more would help prevent this situation, but I really like Bullseye for many reasons and happen to have around 20 pounds of it on hand! Take 20 pounds times 7,000 grains divided by 2.8 grains equals another 10 years of shooting for me!
 
GnarlsR2 said:
I have not experienced a squib.
I'd rather change a flat tire in the dark than have to fix a squib! :(
Click to expand...
Ñext time I get a flat, I'm calling you,and next time you get a squib,call ME!
I think they are not a big deal (the squibs, not the flat).
That is, unless you put another one in behind it.
Far more serious is a double charge.
 
BeachBumShooter said:
Gentlemen,

After almost two decades of casting and reloading my own practice ammo I had my first squib during my last range trip! Dang it! In the back of my mind, I have always considered a squib possible but after many tens of thousands of rounds that went bang, I thought maybe my reloading process was good enough. But obviously I was wrong, and it was my turn. I have read in articles and heard from other reloaders that if you reload or shoot long enough, you'll experience a squib. That bit of information held true for me. And YES, the description of what it sounded like was "Pfuzzz....." and no notable recoil, this was just like it's been described to me before.

I was shooting 158 grain cast LSWC out of my model 60-9. After the "Pfuzz" sound I kept the muzzle down range thinking hang fire. After a few seconds, nothing, so I tried to open the cylinder, nothing, locked up. Knowing I had two live rounds left I put it away until I got back home. Sure enough, when I shined my bore light down the muzzle there it was, a LSWC bullet lodged in the forcing cone with some amount still in the cylinder throat.

I use a pretty heavy roll crimp, and I have experienced a few cartridges over the years when the primer went off but without any powder in them, the bullet didn't break the crimp or broke the crimp and only moved a little bit. So, I have failed to drop power in the past and on a rare occasion have had rounds that go bang with a much greater recoil than expected, too much powder. But I'm guessing this time I made the mistake of having just enough powder in there to launch the bullet into the forcing cone. Dang it!

I'm pleased that it took me this long to experience a squib and thankful it locked up the gun as to prevent another trigger pull!

Anyway, the takeaway, regardless of experience or skill level, that Murphy guy doesn't care!
Click to expand...
I had 2 squibs from store-bought ammo and that gave me all the incentive I needed to do my own reloading. Just pay attention to the powder. Glad you didn't blow things up.
 
Having reloaded for 40+yrs, I have had squib loads! This usually results in the end of the shooting session and retiring to the shop to clear the stuck bullet! However, on one of these experiences I fired a 44 mag, close to max load, heard and felt the squib! I laid the gun down and observed unburnt powder, H110(ball powder), running out of the BC gap! I was never able to determine the cause! Was it a bad primer, bad powder, tumbling media stuck in the primer hole, or just plain operator error?
jcelect
 
I had 4 squibs out of 75 38spl using 125 gr Plated Berrys. I had a couple before this mess but I now attribute it to the TOO MANY RELOADS on my brass (Close to 20) I believe the brass is not expanding fast enough, not sealing and sending the bullet mid barrel in my LCR. I'm finally dumping that brass and starting with a fresh batch of once fired. I don't believe I had that many bad Winchester Small Pistol primers or Missed Powder drops - Huge Pfuzzz.... on each one with a very noticeable smoke cloud.
 
BeachBumShooter said:
Gentlemen,

After almost two decades of casting and reloading my own practice ammo I had my first squib during my last range trip! Dang it! In the back of my mind, I have always considered a squib possible but after many tens of thousands of rounds that went bang, I thought maybe my reloading process was good enough. But obviously I was wrong, and it was my turn. I have read in articles and heard from other reloaders that if you reload or shoot long enough, you'll experience a squib. That bit of information held true for me. And YES, the description of what it sounded like was "Pfuzzz....." and no notable recoil, this was just like it's been described to me before.

I was shooting 158 grain cast LSWC out of my model 60-9. After the "Pfuzz" sound I kept the muzzle down range thinking hang fire. After a few seconds, nothing, so I tried to open the cylinder, nothing, locked up. Knowing I had two live rounds left I put it away until I got back home. Sure enough, when I shined my bore light down the muzzle there it was, a LSWC bullet lodged in the forcing cone with some amount still in the cylinder throat.

I use a pretty heavy roll crimp, and I have experienced a few cartridges over the years when the primer went off but without any powder in them, the bullet didn't break the crimp or broke the crimp and only moved a little bit. So, I have failed to drop power in the past and on a rare occasion have had rounds that go bang with a much greater recoil than expected, too much powder. But I'm guessing this time I made the mistake of having just enough powder in there to launch the bullet into the forcing cone. Dang it!

I'm pleased that it took me this long to experience a squib and thankful it locked up the gun as to prevent another trigger pull!

Anyway, the takeaway, regardless of experience or skill level, that Murphy guy doesn't care!
Click to expand...
Us old Revolver shooters from the 60's like me, are very familiar with the various maladies that may occur when shooting revolvers. You are fortunate the round did not make it into the barrel, where a less alert shooter could easily fire another round behind it...often resulting in a "ringed" barrel. So, don't beat yourself up...it can and has happened to a Lot of us over the years...you recognized it early and will modify your procedure accordingly.
 
LostintheOzone said:
I had one a few years ago with a 9mm reload. Soooo, I know it was something I caused. Probably a case that got a light powder charge or none at all. Bullet was partially stuck in the barrel so the next round couldn't camber. Lucky me.

I don't use a progressive press and visually check ever case for powder before I seat. It still happened because of my careless inspection. At least that's I'm thinking happened.

Glad there was no damage to you or the firearm.
Click to expand...
I reload standing, so I can look in each case to see the powder and its level, which also prevents an overcharge. So far, so good.
 
BeachBumShooter said:
Gentlemen,

After almost two decades of casting and reloading my own practice ammo I had my first squib during my last range trip! Dang it! In the back of my mind, I have always considered a squib possible but after many tens of thousands of rounds that went bang, I thought maybe my reloading process was good enough. But obviously I was wrong, and it was my turn. I have read in articles and heard from other reloaders that if you reload or shoot long enough, you'll experience a squib. That bit of information held true for me. And YES, the description of what it sounded like was "Pfuzzz....." and no notable recoil, this was just like it's been described to me before.

I was shooting 158 grain cast LSWC out of my model 60-9. After the "Pfuzz" sound I kept the muzzle down range thinking hang fire. After a few seconds, nothing, so I tried to open the cylinder, nothing, locked up. Knowing I had two live rounds left I put it away until I got back home. Sure enough, when I shined my bore light down the muzzle there it was, a LSWC bullet lodged in the forcing cone with some amount still in the cylinder throat.

I use a pretty heavy roll crimp, and I have experienced a few cartridges over the years when the primer went off but without any powder in them, the bullet didn't break the crimp or broke the crimp and only moved a little bit. So, I have failed to drop power in the past and on a rare occasion have had rounds that go bang with a much greater recoil than expected, too much powder. But I'm guessing this time I made the mistake of having just enough powder in there to launch the bullet into the forcing cone. Dang it!

I'm pleased that it took me this long to experience a squib and thankful it locked up the gun as to prevent another trigger pull!

Anyway, the takeaway, regardless of experience or skill level, that Murphy guy doesn't care!
Click to expand...
Let me say first of all, if you have experienced reloads with no powder then you need to tighten up your reloading as that should not happen. If it does then sooner or later a squib in inevitable. I have been purchasing some reloaded ammo from auctions as much as to obtain the brass. I had a squib in a Win '94 in .357mag and since I have been putting my grandson to work weighing every round. That can be a good way to check for rounds with no powder or a double charge.
 
My introduction to squibs was a .45 reload, in an effort to develop a light load. One shot (Smith 645) sounded odd, and short cycled. Racked in another round, and this one kicked. Yes, it ringed the barrel, still have it in the shop. Learned my lesson, I hope.
A buddy grenaded a 3" M60, with his own reloads. It was Bullseye. Blew out the top strap, and 1/3 of the cylinder. He contacted Smith; they said a double charge wouldn't blow up the gun, and a triple won't fit. Smith was supportive about getting him a replacement, though it wasn't free.
Personal theory, it wasn't too much powder, but perhaps too little. The guy ran out of primers, and loaded some rounds without them. They doubtless dribbled powder until he seated primers. Ever hear of detonation with Bullseye? Apparently it can't be replicated in the lab, but a combination of a small charge in a big case has been known to do strange things.
Have a long suffering Dillon 550, with a retrofit positive powder return. Never had a powder charge hang up, but as a PP noted, something that interrupts things (a primer draw thru, split case, whatever) you have to patiently get things back in order, so a charge isn't skipped or doubled.
Moon
 
I once bought plated target bullets that had long bearing surface for my Model 19. I loaded according to the directions that was with the bullets. I got one that stuck in the barrel unnoticed, fired another round and noticed increased recoil. Didn't think much iof it until I got home and began cleaning the bore. It now had a noticeable barrel bulge. The revolver was minty until this happened. I would up selling it even though it still shot okay.
 
I reload mostly .38, +P, .357. I use a Lee 4 hole turret but, do not use the auto rotate feature. After cleaning I'll size/decap, measure the case and clean primer pockets. Those are put in bags. When I reload I'll weigh the case/primer together - press in the primer - powder fill and re-weigh it to verify the load. Those go into the holder. After 50 i'll stand and verify all cases look like the same fill. Then insert bullet/crimp (taper crimps are usually .002-.003" deep) , measure OAL. Those go into boxes. I had 2 squibs a few years ago but, reloading in this sequence I haven't had one since. I'm in no hurry to marathon load. I'll usually have a ball game or old western on the tv while I do it.
 
Is it not horrible to admit your sins to a group which has many who believe that there is a Just World, and that good things happen to good people and bad things things happen to evil people?

Ideological and judgmental attitudes really don't help advance a safety culture.

It is my opinion that all processes have the potential for error, and some processes are more error prone than others. My Dillion 550B does not provide for illumination of the charged case. So when I have problems, such as primer misfeed, tipped bullet in the seating die, off center case crunch in the seating die, etc, I can't see the powder level in the case. After clearing such process problems in a Dillion, some of which are simple, some much more complicated, the lack of powder charge verification (along with confirmation bias) is a potential error source for squibs. If I was perfect, I would always follow some "clear the decks" procedure, but of course, perfection is for the devine.

It is good to see that the market has responded, there are lot of Dillion 550B illumination kits available which allow the reloader to look down and see if there is powder in the case. This should help identify double charges in short pistol cases, which is also a real possiblity.

Anyway, just look at your reloading practice, see where there could be error prone processes, and look to see if there are people already addressing the issue with aftermarket parts.

As for squibs, I have seen a number of them, and had two. The first squib was due to weak mainsprings, cold weather, and a ball powder in a 357 case. The pistol I purchased had been owned by a PPC shooter who had fired "60,000" rounds. It worked fine with Bullseye or AA#2 pistol powder and Federal primers. However I poured AA#9, a magnum ball powder in the case, stored a can of ammunition over night in a cold truck, (WSP primer) and given the combination of a tough to ignite ball powder and weak ignition, I had a bullet lodged in the throat. Luckily the cylinder did not turn so that prevented me from firing another round.

I fixed the M586 weak ignition with a new mainspring, and went out in slightly warmer weather with the same ammunition and every round went off with a satisfying big badda boom! Ignition strength is very important and new mainsprings are a great way to ensure strong ignition.

As for squibs at 2700 Bullseye matches, I have seen two. The first was a bullet in the throat which prevented the next round from feeding, the next was a bullet in the middle of the barrel. If you ever jack an empty from your autopistol, always stop right there and don't even think of firing another round. Drop the magazine, (clear the chamber!), and drop the long 5/16" or 1/4" drift rod you have with you, or that cleaning rod you always have at the range. (Hint, hint, have a long brass drift or cleaning rod with you) Ole Joe had a squib during a match, and he is an wise old shooter, he knew that he had to investigate to see if there was a bullet in the barrel after jacking an empty out of the chamber. Ole Joe also had a long brass drift which proved there was a bullet in that there barrel. He removed the 1911 barrel from the slide, found a block of wood, and beat the bullet out using a wooden bench as a rest. Ole Joe reassembled his 1911 and continued with the match. Now the thing is, as I can verify, the shooter does not necessarily notice a weak recoil, or a weak blast. Another shooter, Jim, verified that: the shooter behind grabbed him and stopped him from firing the next round in his 1911. The shooter behind Jim noticed the lack of muzzle blast and knew that portended a squib. And it was a squib with the bullet half way down the barrel. Jim was grateful for the intervention and help.

There have been lots of squibs in revolvers where the bullet went half way down the barrel, the shooter did not notice that the recoil and blast were off, and continued to fire until the barrel was full of bullets. Such is life. I was lucky as my M586 squib stopped the rotation of the cylinder. At the time I was not as paranoid about squibs as I am now, and I was not carrying brass drifts with me out to the range. Now I am.

My second squib, was with a 1911 during a 2700 Bullseye match. I did not notice that the recoil and blast were all that different. Of course there were a lot of bangs going around. I jacked out an empty, and I really thought I saw the hole on the target. (I was wrong), and the next round bulged the barrel. I had not been carrying brass drifts in my pistol box, and was not thinking about squibs as I have never ever had a case without the correct powder charge. Hubris created an attitude that my ammunition had to be perfect. I was wrong. That cost me $600 to get my Les Baer Wadcutter fixed, it did not leave the factory till it placed ten shots inside two inches at 50 yards. I also don’t trust my reloading procedures as much as I did before and I did start using a light on my Dillion 550B.
 
Last edited:
Well, Knock on wood I have never had a squib, But I am wondering how hard it is to remove the squib from a revolver with a drift and what is the proper procedure to do so without damaging the revolver? I reload quite a bit of ammo and I have caught myself missing a charge on a few occasions, I pass my finished ammo across a scale before i crimp as a final step and I load everything single stage. All that being said Ill probably get a squib at my next range session. Thanks for any replies.
 
You can use an RCBS lock out die to prevent either a no load or double charge when reloading off a progressive die. If you do get a squib, a 5/16th brass rod is the best thing to use on a 38/357 0r 9mm barrel, as it won't harm the rifling and pretty much fills the bore.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

C
Bad powder?
2
Replies
34
Views
916
greenwellg
G
Timothy2700
Squib at the range yesterday….
Replies
9
Views
742
hunter0528
H
B
Pretty close call/coulda been ugly
Replies
18
Views
855
RebCop
RebCop
G
Squib with suppressor
Replies
2
Views
643
Rule3
Rule3
M
929 Blazer ammo issue
Replies
8
Views
260
BILLME LATER
B

Latest posts

Back
Top