Concealed Carry

[aguablanco]

I certainly don't believe all permit holders should have to train to the level of Rob Leatham. Having said that, I do believe there should be some requirement for being able to safely and competently handle a firearm. Having been in many LGS and listening to the really uninformed questions, and witnessing abhorrent handling techniques, it makes me cringe. Of course the 2A is, in my opinion, absolute, however, with rights comes responsibility. We are responsible to ourselves, but more importantly we are responsible to our family, neighbors and even the general public, not to mention other firearm owners and users. Basic firearm training, much like drivers tests, won't teach you everything, but it will give you a basic knowledge on which to build. It will impart the basic safety premises and then allow the trainee to either obey or ignore them at their own peril.

I shoot at Rio Salado and we are now requiring every new shooter to take a basic class before they can present from the holster on steel night. This only seems to be common sense to want people with loaded firearms to have some basic knowledge of proper handling and safety techniques.
RichH

 

[Realzebub45]

For all the whining that the left does about proficiency of firearms users, you would think they would want to spend SOME of that money giving free training. But no, they would rather spend it fighting the NRA, or whomever.

That's why it is a B.S. argument.

 

[aguablanco]

For all the whining that the left does about proficiency of firearms users, you would think they would want to spend SOME of that money giving free training. But no, they would rather spend it fighting the NRA, or whomever.

That's why it is a B.S. argument.

Some of what money? Their own personal money? Why would I chip in to train anyone for something they want to do? I am currently training to be a PADI Divemaster, care to contribute? We all talk about personal responsibility and then you want people to spend their money for your purposes? People need to take the actions necessary to exercise their rights on their own dime, not expect someone else to pay their way. When any of us go out in public as an armed citizen we are taking on very serious responsibilities, and we should know that and take the appropriate steps to ensure that we do it properly and safely, not expect someone else to do it for us.
RichH

 

[wyccad915]

I think the OP is expecting a little too much. That kind of training you would like everybody to get is certainly not cheap. Also, police officers need this type of training more so seeing as part of their job requires making the decision whether to shoot/not shoot more than a civilian.

After reading some of the posts I see indeed some states have little requirements for you to get a permit, and I agree it's scary, but the kind of training you are mentioning is a bit extreme.

 

[woodsltc]

For all the whining that the left does about proficiency of firearms users, you would think they would want to spend SOME of that money giving free training. But no, they would rather spend it fighting the NRA, or whomever.

That's why it is a B.S. argument.

Doubt if we will ever see any $$ allocated for firearms training. But, if the liberals/progressives really wanted to promote firearms safety they would join hands with the NRA and use the "Eddie Eagle" firearms safety education program in our schools.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

Don

Don

 

[Mr Pokeyman]

Are the training reqmts for concealed carry permits in your state adequate/appropriate---not questioning whether such permits are or not infringements on rights-----but whether the existing laws protect the safety of the general public---some people get permits with little to no actual hands on firearms instruction---makes me cringe when I see such people at public shooting ranges, shooting their brand new toy on their own with no adult supervision.

And the answer is YES. Go to Sheriff's, fill out application, pay small fee, Sheriff SHALL issue unless you are a convict, alcoholic or insane. Permit is good for either 4 or 5yrs. I think 4.
You don't need the permit to buy a gun, or 100 guns. Go to store, pay your money, wait 4 or 5 minutes for Penna instant check (telephone call) and take your property (gun) home.
If you want to learn how to shoot your new gun, join a club or go as a guest with a friend or neighbor. Or not, its your choice. My gun club cost $20 to join and $20 a year. It has a handgun range, a shotgun range, several rifle ranges and an indoor 22 rifle range.
As a retired LEO, I have to qualify once a year. I am scheduled for the class later this month at a cost of $75 and I have to bring 3 boxes of ammo and a gun. It is 4 hours and includes a lecture on the law as well as the firing range. This is held at a college that has a law enforcement program.

 

[5-Shot]

Gee, about 30,000 people were killed in auto accidents last year.

Do you think the requirements to get a drivers license are strict enough in your state. Let's see.....you pass a written exam and drive around the block!! How scary!!!!

Don

No I don't believe they are strict enough.

Ed

 

[feralmerril]

I hate to say this, but after haveing to requalify in california for about 35 years I retired here to utah. Soon as I could I got my permit here. I was very surprised to just sit through a 4 hour philibuster mostly on gun laws with no range time at all! For me that was okay as I carried on my jobs for over 35 years but really I thought most others probley needed range instruction. From one standpoint I could see the method to the madness and that is the basic 2nd amendment gun rights etc.

 

[kraigwy]

I'm against Mandatory training, Not because I don't think people need to train, but I'm leery of who sets the standards. What is their agenda?

Think about it, do you want Uncle Joe to set training standards you have to meet before you can carry????

But I'm all for training and more training. But what does it cost? Do we want self defense to be a "rich man's game"????

Let me give you an example:

A couple ladies in town decided they wanted training so they started looking around. $250 for a 4 hour class is all that was offered around here. Don't sound like a lot, but some of these ladies were single parents and have enough problems keeping their kids fed and clothed. $250 per 4 hours was out of reach, not to mention 4 hours of training isn't enough.

What to do? I'm retired, I enjoy teaching, I have the experience and background. The tax payer paid a lot of money to make me a firearms instructor, Feds, State, and Local governments so why not give the taxpayer some of their money back.

Our club has an in door range that isn't used much so I decided to provide FREE ladies Firearm Safety and Self defense classes. Every Wednesday night, two hours.

You wouldn't believe the response I've gotten. Only problem is it's looking like I'm going to have to add another night to keep the classes a reasonable size.

I'm a firm believer in training, and never ending training........but I'm against making it mandatory.

If the lack of training is a problem (and I believe it is) then we as shooters should step up and provide that training.

Lets not leave it to Uncle Joe and his double barreled shotgun, lets not leave it to some anti gun politician who's goal is to set the standard so high and costly no one would be able to protect themselves and their families.

We as shooters need to STEP UP.

 

[bigride]

Some people say it's scary that citizens have access to firearms with little official training. What's scary to this "paranoid gun fanatic" is the thought of lawful citizens that will be restricted and priced out of the right to defend themselves in the name of "public safety" because of "common sense" government requirements. We are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist...and sometimes our biggest problems are our own solutions.

I agree with woodstltc. If "they", whoever "they" may be, were really worried about public safety, "they" could join forces with the NRA to genuinely promote safe firearms practices instead of wasting gazillions of dollars trying to infringe the rights of law-abiding citizens.

 

[nachogrande]

REQ'D CC TRAINING

complicated topic and easily led off the op's ? short answer in fl in 2004? no skills or shots needed for the permit, only passing a written test (that nobody could fail as answers were given out) a hunter safety class was a +, but here that's not even req'd for hunting if you are of a certain age. do I think that the millions of people nationwide flocking to get their cc permits/licenses should actually know how to use and be able to demonstrate a certain minimum level of skill with the weapon they plan on carrying possibly in public? (read that phrasing carefully, KNOW HOW TO/ BE ABLE TO),imo it would seem a good idea and be logical. would it be legal/constitutionally speaking, probably not, and again imo that's why it's sometimes not always req'd. everywhere.

 

[SW_shooter]

I've been looking into getting my CHL here in TX. Requirements are:

10 hour class = ~$100
(have to pass a proficiency shoot)
license application to state = ~$110
(thorough background check done, not 4473)
finger prints taken = ~$10-50
Passport type photos taken = ~$20-40
(photo and prints submitted with application)

So all in all I think TX may have the toughest requirements that I've heard of so far. My friend in South Dakota says all they have to do is pay $10 and fill out a one page application and they get their CCW in a week.

As to the OP's question, I don't know if my states requirements are adequate or not, but they seem to be fairly stringent. We still have our fair share of nut jobs getting their hands on guns and committing crimes, but I doubt that criminals go and get their CHL before robbing, stealing, or killing anyone. So it's the honest hard working people who get CHLs and abide by the rules. What's the point in making CHL holders go through all the hoops if it doesn't stop criminals from getting guns and doing bad things with guns?

 

[ladder13]

What requirements should be demanded of senior citizens who could easily fall prey to anyone more physically powerful than they?

 

[shouldazagged]

What requirements should be demanded of senior citizens who could easily fall prey to anyone more physically powerful than they?

I'm one of those, but obtained my license before I was this old and crippled-up. I think we old folks should have to qualify.

 

[feralmerril]

Trouble is there is so many shades of gray on any requirements in all areas of life besides gun permits. I can build or buy a airplane, maybe read and watch a video on how to fly and try it. However there are laws and rules put out by the FAA that stop me. We all can agree to laws on each side the spectrum. But once we do set a laws and rules they tend to multiply like popcorn and soon you need a few philidelphia lawyers to see that you arent breaking a jillion hidden laws. Give ANY agency basic power and soon they are trying to create a dynesty. Look how OSHA and other outfits can walk right in to a business, fine as many obscure rules broke as they see fit to write that day, pull a figure of the fine out of their butt and you must pay it or go out of business. I think they learned from the mafia. We do it simply by electing to have various city, county, state and federal LE agencys and a person is pretty nieve and gullable to say it isnt happening all around us every day. A mayor tells the chief we need income. The chief tells traffic officers write up more out of state cars at 5 over. Residents get away with 10. More money is needed it gets lowered to zero over and fines go up. The judge lives there too and draws his check and also wants to keep his job. In good times you can park your car on the wrong side of your street, tight times obey the rules. Dont try it with out of town or state tags though. I wish I could explain myself better.

 

[keith44spl]

---makes me cringe when I see such people at public shooting ranges, shooting their brand new toy on their own with no adult supervision.

Well, folks gotta learn somewhere.......

If I thought it was all that dangerous....I'd just stay outta those places,

That's why I stay outta joints that serve licker and have neck'd wemen....Jest to darn dangerous



.

 

[feralmerril]

Years ago I feared nobody when I was young. Now I get out of breath tieing my shoes. I still think like I used to, but if I sit down and try to be truthful with myself I know better. I am more prone to have a gun at least handy in my vehicle now than I used to even when I lived in a much hire crime area.

 

[Aticus]

I hope this is not taken wrong but ...

The OP displays the eagle, globe and anchor and is from Florida. While I agree with his sentiments for the most part I note from where he writes. He writes that he is concerned about the lack of training necessary to get a concealed weapon permit. In his state I can agree that the requirements are some what lax. I have a Florida non-resident concealed weapons permit which is valid where I live. This allows me to carry a concealed weapon, gun, knife sap etc., in Florida and a concealed firearm in my home state. In order to get this permit I had to provide Florida a passport type photo, certified fingerprints, a completed application, a copy of my DD 214, and the proper fee. No further proof of training required. In Missouri I'm required to complete session of class room training on the general use of a concealable firearm, the cleaning of same and the legal aspects of concealed carry. There is a requirement to show proficiency with both a revolver and semi-auto handgun. The shooting requirement, B-27 target at 7 yds. 20 shots and 15 in the black, is such that a friend asked me if they made you open your eyes. Not the most comprehensive training but certainly better than some.

Do we need better training? Perhaps. What we get is a lot better than nothing. We have to remember most of us carry for self protection. I do not think I need training for nor am I planning for urban warfare. I'm planning for the trashy who accosts me on the street or tries to invade my property.

Sorry for the rant but I had to get me 2 cents in here. I appreciate those who have the training either law enforcement or military but I don't think the average person needs some of the training that some advocate. More emphasis on when to shoot certainly but extensive training beyond that, no

Let me add I have the Missouri training and carry a concealed carry endorsement. We don't officially call it a permit. It's treated somewhat like a motorcycle endorsement to the drivers license.

 

[truckemup97]

If we required classes in safe firearm handling in elementary school, and marksmanship in middle and high school, no further training would be needed.

 

[redlevel]

I hope this is not taken wrong but ...

The OP displays the eagle, globe and anchor and is from Florida. While I agree with his sentiments for the most part I note from where he writes. He writes that he is concerned about the lack of training necessary to get a concealed weapon permit. In his state I can agree that the requirements are some what lax.

Florida has issued about 1.2 million concealed carry permits.
With the perceived lack of training expressed by you and the OPoster,
one would expect that the streets and gutters of The Gunshine State would be
running red with the blood of octogenarians who,because of their lack of training,
are killing themselves and innocent bystanders in wholesale lots.

Is this the case?