Thumb safety

[USMCGrunt]

As John3200 said, striker fired pistols like the M&P function very much like revolvers. That was one of the selling points when Glock started marketing their firearms to LE agencies. The transition from revolvers to Glocks would be much easier because Glocks were like revolvers in that there is no active safety device in either.

What prevents accidental firing of an M&P is what prevents accidental firing of any firearm. Know the four rules and follow them. Plus, don't leave firearms where kids or other untrained people can get them.

Get what you are comfortable with, but any safety device can be defeated, even by a 5 year old. Safe handling and storage are the real safety devices.

Actually, the M&P is closser in function to a 1911 than a revolver. Now the Glock has a striker that is at the forward "rest" position and as trigger pressure is applied, the striker is moved rearward until it reaches the point where the sear no longer engages the striker, flies forward and fired the cartridge. This is closer to a double action revolver in function but one with a shorter and lighter trigger pull.
Now the M&P (as well as the XD) do not have this double action feature where the striker is in the forward position. In both of these weapons, the striker is at full cock against the sear surface in much the same way the sear holds back the hammer on a 1911. In both the M&P and XD, the trigger be it with a tab like the XD or a hinged trigger in the case of the M&P does not allow the trigger to be pulled to the rear unless the shooters finger (or other object) depressed the tab (XD) or lower portion of the trigger (M&P) that allows the actual trigger to move to the rear, depress the sear, allows the firing pin to move forward and fire the cartridge. The 1911 accomplishes this in much the same way with a grip safety that must be depressed by the shooters hand that will then allow the trigger to move to the rear and fire the round.
What this basically means is that an M&P without a manual safety is more akin to carrying around a 1911 cocked and unlocked than it is to a revolver. Now while we know that shooters "should" keep their finger off the trigger, being a professional instructor, I have plenty of experience with shooters that have been trained to do just that yet somehow still manage to poop the bed and still leave fingers on triggers when they shouldn't be. Just a fact of life that it can and does happen. Even Glocks with an action that is more in line with a double action revolver has scads of stories about unintentional negligent discharges like the guy in the video that shoots himself in the leg, the female cop providing overwatch on the suspect proned out and caps a round off next to his head that was also caught on video to say nothing of the numberous reports (especially early on) about shooters that would shoot themselves in the leg when going to holster because a finger was on the trigger, hit the holster, finger stops moving, gun doesn't, trigger is depressed and a round goes off.
Finally in comparing all of these designs be it a Glock, M&P, XD, etc. to a double action revolver, in most every one of these cases, the trigger on the autos are shorter and lighter than they are on a double action revolver. A DA revolver lacks a manual safety because the longer, heavier trigger pull is less likely to discharge if a finger is left on the trigger. It's pull is heavy enough that you know you are pulling the trigger. Not so with the striker fired autos (short of a NY or NY2 trigger on a Glock) with a shorter and lighter trigger pull. There just isn't that margin for error a DA revolver has.
It's for these reasons that I prefer to have a grip safety on my XD rather than deactivate it, a manual safety on my 1911s and a manual safety on my M&P45 as well.

 

[cluznar]

Thumb Safety

Personally I prefer a thumb safety on any Semi-Auto I own. I have no problem flipping the safety off as I draw. Get it with the safety and you can always leave the safety off if you want.
But there may be times when you want the safety on like maybe kids around.

 

[walkin' trails]

From your description of your previous experience with handguns, I think you answered your own question - get one with a thumb safety. I haven't carried an M&P with an external safety, but the ones I've handled did not seem as thought the safety lever was overly protruding. To carry any pistol comfortably, get a quality holster. Quality holsters go a long way to keep the gun rubbing uncomfortably against your skin, and quality holsters sometimes prevent unintentional discharges. Futhermore, proper training and regular practice while adhearing to the four rules of safety further aid in the safe and proficient handling and use of a pistol.

Police, regardless of what has been issued or authorized, have blown holes in police station walls, police cars, and other places not because the firearm did not have a proper manual safety, but because of some sudden lapse of judgement. The same thing has happened to civilians (although if a civilian was blowing a hole through a police station wall or a police car, there were other issues...), and to military, where the safe carriage of loaded firearms sometimes goes to the extreme based on a REMF's lack of understanding or other factors.... ADs have been around a lot longer than Glocks. I worked for an organization that allowed DA/SA Sigs, Glocks, and DA revolvers of Colt, Ruger, and S&W flavor. The ADs were pretty much evenly distributed between the three catagories.

I have carried Glocks for over 20 years, round in the chamber. I currently carry an M&P 45 full size in a Milt Sparks IWB, round in the chamber, no thumb safety. If the finger is off the trigger the pistol is pretty likely not to fire unexpectedly. Yes, things such as shirt tails, pull cords, and even junk holsters can get into a trigger guard and cause an AD, but as I said before, training and practice builds proficiencey and awareness...

 

[warrior2442]

They have passive safeties.

1. Trigger safety (have to pull the whole trigger or the upper part of the trigger is blocked by the frame)
2. Striker/firing pin block - if you take the slide off and look toward the rear, there's a round chunk o' metal sitting there. That prevents the striker, if charged (round racked), from striking the primer on a round should some how it move forward without a trigger pull. The trigger, when pulled, moves this block upward and out of the way of the firing pin so that it can move forward to fire (i.e. you must pull the trigger for the gun to go bang). You can take the slide off and try to move the firing pin with your hand, and you won't be able to.... press that round chunk o' metal down and hold it and then you can move the firing pin forward.

Those are the two mechanisms you'd be relying on, which as I understand, are reliable - but they're still mechanical and nature and everything is prone to failure.

That being said, the human brain is prone to failure as well.... big time.... and mistakes happen. It's a combination of knowledge, training, safeties, what's between your ears, etc. that come together to help prevent ND's, but they can still happen. There's also things like the loaded chamber visual indicator (i.e. the hole on the top of the slide to look in and see if a round is chambered), and the sear deactivation lever for 'safe' disassembly.

I have a manual safety on my 9c, because I also have a very light trigger in there (apex, not the factory trigger, it too has a passive trigger safety) and it's a carry weapon.

Although there's varying opinion's on external manual safeties for "DAO" pistols, I like it. It stops the trigger bar from moving backward to disengage the striker block, and subsequently drop the sear to allow the firing pin to move forward and the gun to go bang.

It's just another level of precaution in this new shooter's mind, and is very easy to train for to make sure it's off when you need it to be off. I've found it's all in my grip, and is second nature to disengage the safety when I present. It's really up to the shooter to decide.

Hope that helps a little. I'm still learning myself, but I went with the safety and have no issues with it (also sits in a ccw holster no problem, don't notice it). You can take them off easily if you want, but if you get it with a safety, I personally wouldn't remove it. If you end up using your weapon, the courts could use it against you saying you deliberately removed the safety. They could also have no clue you took it off. Better safe than sorry in my book (no pun intended).

 

[cp1969]

One of the strangest pistols I ever encountered was the Radom VIS 35 that my father brought home from WWII.

It was a single action automatic, with a decocker and a grip safety. No manual safety like a 1911 or High Power. If you carried it with the hammer cocked, the grip safety was all you had. If you carried it with the hammer down, you had to manually cock it and the hammer did not have a big spur on it.

I wouldn't have wanted to carry it, but being all steel and 9mm, it was practically recoil-free and very accurate considering the crude sights.

 

[checkmyswag]

Don't let anyone make you feel less competent for wanting an external safety. Its your gun and your responsibility. Go with what you for comfortable with.

 

[VMaxSplat]

I'm going to purchase a M&P .40 Compact in the very near future. This will be my first handgun, I've fired many but never owned one. Everything instilled in me tells me to get the one with the thumb safety. Every gun I've ever owned has had a manual safety and every handgun I've ever fired has had one. I'm just not sure how I safe I will feel if I don't get that option.


...I just don't want to regret my choice, and non of the shops around here carry a thumb safety model.

Sounds to me that you're one of the folks S&W makes the thumb safety model for. I like them too!

 

[Rastoff]

Just a note:
The thumb safety on the M&P is not like other pistols. On most guns a manual lever safety blocks the trigger and either disconnects or blocks the sear.

The safety on the M&P only blocks the trigger from moving. It makes no action on the sear at all.

I have one on my M&P 45 because that's all that's sold in CA. Given the choice I probably would not have opted to get it. Still, it's a non-issue. I'm used to a 1911 so, the safety is something I'm used to.

If I were you, I'd get the one with the safety. If you don't like it, you can just take it out. It can be removed easily in about 5 minutes.

 

[half-lug]

Not true. The Sig Sauer P226 tied the Beretta M92 in the trials. The only reason the M92 was selected in the end was some priceing voodoo. Beretta had a lower price but also included less with the gun than the Sig Sauer bid. Both guns obviously meet the safety requirements of the trials.

The Beretta 9s, the M9, and the M9a1 do not have safeties like a traditional thumb safety....they have decockers which then disable the triggerto hammer mechanism.

Sig has a decocker, but nothing is disabled, the pistol then goes to D/A.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I'm going to purchase a M&P .40 Compact in the very near future. This will be my first handgun, I've fired many but never owned one. Everything instilled in me tells me to get the one with the thumb safety. Every gun I've ever owned has had a manual safety and every handgun I've ever fired has had one. I'm just not sure how I safe I will feel if I don't get that option.

Will I notice the saftey sticking into me if I carry on the waist at five o' clock?

Non thumb safety models are ready to fire once the round is in the chamber, correct? What prevents accidental firing? What prevents someone from unknowingly firing it" God forbid if my 5 year ever got a hold of it... (yes, it will be in a bedside safe with ammo close by in another secure device.)


...I just don't want to regret my choice, and non of the shops around here carry a thumb safety model.

Just like a revolver, the M&P pistol is safe from accidental firing as a result of being dropped or jarred. It has automatic internal safety devices to prevent firing as a result of being dropped or jarred.

The M&P is, therefore, just as safe as a modern double action revolver if unmodified and in proper operating condition.

As you have already surmised, however, the pistol does not know the difference and if the trigger is pulled by you or anyone or anything, it WILL discharge if there is a round in the chamber. The thumb safety certainly provides an extra layer of security against such unintended discharge.

You must feel confident in your choice, and therefore, do what makes you feel confident.

If you feel you need more than the internal and automatic safeties, then by all means, get the thumb safety model.

 

[tipoc]

One of the strangest pistols I ever encountered was the Radom VIS 35 that my father brought home from WWII.

It was a single action automatic, with a decocker and a grip safety. No manual safety like a 1911 or High Power. If you carried it with the hammer cocked, the grip safety was all you had. If you carried it with the hammer down, you had to manually cock it and the hammer did not have a big spur on it.

I wouldn't have wanted to carry it, but being all steel and 9mm, it was practically recoil-free and very accurate considering the crude sights.

Great guns the P35. One the designers detested external safeties and so the decocker. To bring the gun into action you either racked the slide or carried one in the chamber and cocked the hammer. Designed for the Polish cavalry.

tipoc

 

[Southernman]

A safety provides an extra margin of security. I prefer a safety. As others have stated it all comes down to personal preference.

 

[timn8er]

Like others have said here, you've answered your own question. If that's
what you're used to, go with it! When I purchased my M&p40C, I wasn't
aware a thumb safety model was available, plus I was hot to trot after
already waiting several months for a 40 Shield. I'm trying to get in the
habit of carrying a round chambered, but its hard with the little voice
in my head saying "there's no safety". I realize what a slim chance I might have of drawing, racking & then firing in a bad situation...but there is still that little voice.

 

[housejacket]

Both my 9FS and 9c had thumb safeties, but I removed them after one particular class showed me clearly that they'd slow me down in a life-or-death scenario. I removed the safeties from both and don't regret it (S&W sent me the plugs for free when I first purchased the pistols).


This may or may not be applicable to you, but make sure you train for real life scenarios and that the equipment responds the way you want. In my personal case, the safeties got in the way.

 

[seattle911]

My M&P .40 does not have a manuel safety but I prefer it did. I didn't catch it when I bought it....I basically assumed all of them did due to the pic I saw of one before I bought it. Below is a current article I copied and pasted from WRAL TV in Raleigh, N.C. and I imagine the local law enforcement here use Glocks.

Fayetteville, N.C. — A Cumberland County Sheriff's Office deputy was wounded Wednesday morning when his service weapon accidentally fired as he was leaving home to drive to work, authorities said.

Maj. John R. McRainey, the chief jailer at the Cumberland County Detention Center, underwent surgery at Cape Fear Valley Medical Center and was in stable condition.

McRainey was putting a bag in his vehicle when his .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun, which was inside the bag, discharged, authorities said. Investigators said the gun apparently bumped against another item in the bag, which McRainey often used to transport the gun.

"Although it is always a tragedy anytime that anyone suffers a gunshot wound, we are just thankful that it was no worse than it was," Sheriff Earl "Moose" Butler said in a statement.

Most of my handguns do not have manual safeties, however, the ones that I carry in a bag (on the rare occasion that I do that) always have manual safeties for just this very possibility, or they are in a holster.

 

[BigCityChief]

I'm going to purchase a M&P .40 Compact in the very near future. This will be my first handgun, I've fired many but never owned one. Everything instilled in me tells me to get the one with the thumb safety. Every gun I've ever owned has had a manual safety and every handgun I've ever fired has had one. I'm just not sure how I safe I will feel if I don't get that option.

Will I notice the saftey sticking into me if I carry on the waist at five o' clock?

Non thumb safety models are ready to fire once the round is in the chamber, correct? What prevents accidental firing? What prevents someone from unknowingly firing it" God forbid if my 5 year ever got a hold of it... (yes, it will be in a bedside safe with ammo close by in another secure device.)


...I just don't want to regret my choice, and non of the shops around here carry a thumb safety model.

Sir, do only what YOU are comfortable doing. It sounds as if you've already decided. Get the pistol with the thumb safety and train with it so that you'll have complete mastery of the firearm. Good luck - let us know what you've decided.

 

[wilkoi]

For me, safety is a good feature, if you do not like it do not use it.

 

[garyhope]

Interesting discussion Gentlemen. To change topics slightly, does anyone know what those plastic things that you can insert in the firing chamber/slide/opening and magazine opening to show that the weapon is unloaded? I think they are red, yellow or orange color for increased visibility. I think they hold the action open slightly. They might be useful if you are declaring a firearm while flying or transporting a weapon. Thanks.

 

[GaryS]

I've always heard them referred to as chamber flags. Brownells has them in a variety of styles. I'm sure other places do as well.

Interesting discussion Gentlemen. To change topics slightly, does anyone know what those plastic things that you can insert in the firing chamber/slide/opening and magazine opening to show that the weapon is unloaded? I think they are red, yellow or orange color for increased visibility. I think they hold the action open slightly. They might be useful if you are declaring a firearm while flying or transporting a weapon. Thanks.

 

[ginzo]

Thumb safety for me. Not a deal breaker if I didn't have it, but I do, got it on purpose, so it's part of my training.