finesse_r
Member
My general background included five years as a children’s protective service worker in Harris County (Houston, Texas) when I first graduated from college. Then over 20 years as a real estate appraiser, during most of which time I owned my own company. I spent a lot of time in court in both those positions.
I was called as an expert witness fairly often, on properties that I had appraised. So being in court was something I was comfortable with. Going to court is something many attorneys never get comfortable doing.
Both as a protective service worker and as an expert witness, I had to lead every single attorney that I worked with through the important issues to be covered in the questioning process and write out pertinent questions they needed to ask during the actual trial.
I was also the plaintiff in two civil cases. I lost the first one using a hired attorney. The second time I was much older and wiser and had by this time practically no respect for attorneys as a group. The second time I decided for many reasons to act as my own attorney.
The situation was that loggers (a father and his four sons had their own logging company) while cutting timber on a neighboring property had clear cut a few acres and several thousand dollars worth of prime timber off the back side of my property, and refused to reimburse me for it. Worse still, they cut down the best squirrel hunting area on this place right along the creek and in an undeclared wetlands area that I would have never logged myself. The area they clear cut also included the only section of mature White Oaks on the place, although I have planted hundreds of young White Oaks in other areas.
I tried talking to the neighboring land owner and to the owners of the timber company to no avail. For months and months all I could get was delays and general denials, with each of them blaming the loss on the other one. The case turned nasty, when the timber company threaded my life, and started telling me how easy it was for a house like mine to burn down in the middle of the night. There were no witnesses to the threats so the local sheriff could do nothing but talk to the loggers and let them know he was aware of the situation. The local DA refused to prosecute them as thieves, since he said he could not prove they cut my timber on purpose and since the loggers claimed the other land owner had told them this was his land.
There is no telling how many older retired people have been scared off by such threats by these men over the years. I have little doubt they were working a long and spotting some truly prime timber just over the line and they figured either I would not realize it was gone (this is a pretty big place) or they could get away with it even if I did spot their activity. Even though I am an old geezer myself, I am also an ex-marine, and a retired business owner, and I am not likely to take such intimidation as anything other than a bully with a big mouth. I particularly don't like bullies. It was finally crystal clear they were never going to be reasonable about the situation, so the game was afoot at that point.
My choices were:
1. Make a business decision, tuck my tail, and let these thieves get away with stealing my property and devastating one of my prime hunting areas knowing my attorney costs would far exceed any recovery awarded by the court, and would eat up untold hours in dealing with the problem.
2. Pay a hired gun attorney who would rob me even worse than the loggers had, and even if I won the suit, make a bad financial loss even worse, and quite probably botch the case.
3. Stand up and defend myself as my own attorney.
They left me no real recourse but to sue them. With my background and experience with attorneys and with the various courts and my knowledge of Texas real estate laws (I still have a pretty decent library of legal and real estate books) I decided I would act as my own attorney.
The case consumed much of my time for nearly three years. The most difficult part for me was all the legal papers that had to be filed with the court and getting them into the procedural format that the court would accept. I obtained several documents from similar cases and just used the same format and to some extent the same terminology that was typically used in similar cases. In other words I translated plain English into Legalize which was time consuming for a non-lawyer like myself.
I had to hire independent professional timber appraisers to appraise the value of the lost timber and had to have a second survey done showing precisely how much of my land had been clear cut by the loggers. The area in question was along almost half a mile stretch of land and they encroached anywhere from a few feet in some areas to 50 feet in other areas. Of course I photographed the area completely with pictures showing the property line and the lost timber. A good thing I did so immediately, as a year later the clear cut area was 6 foot high in cane and weeds and taking pictures would have been almost useless.
The neighboring land owner had a daughter that was an oil and gas attorney to handle his legal work for free so he was only out pocket for part of the final settlement. Of course she was trying to show off to Daddy and did nothing but stall and stall some more and did so in the most abrasive way possible.
The loggers used a hired attorney and I know they spent nearly three times what the original offer to settle was just on their attorney and ended up paying for their attorney plus a much larger settlement than I had originally offered them. I guess it was their version of Texas hold’em and they were all in very early on.
I filed the case with the district county court, not the small claims court. The court appearances at the various hearings and pleadings were pretty easy as the Judge went out of his way to insure I was given the same courtesy and standing as the two opposing attorneys, who did their best to talk over me and to ignore me. All I can say is good luck with trying that.
I think these two attorneys were originally thinking what luck to get an idiot country bumpkin defending himself, but it was far from their lucky day. I expect I knew more about Texas real estate law than either of the opposing attorneys, I just did not have their general law degree or their knowledge of this local court’s procedures, which should have given them a considerable advantage. However, my first hand knowledge of the facts of the case and my knowledge of Texas law gave me an advantage as well. Additionally this was my only case, while they were probably handling many other cases that were far more important to them than this one.
After untold delays, the defendants finally settled the day before we were finally due to go to trial. I have to admit to being a little ambivalent about settling it at that late date, as I had spent untold hours preparing for the trial and when I am fully prepared for an event I usually enjoy it. Still, I was paid what 90% of what I was asking for in the suit and more than I expected to get in court. A win is a win and I did have better ways to spend my next couple of days than playing at being a lawyer, so I jumped on it and put it all behind me.
I realize not everyone is able or willing to act as their own attorney, but if you can then I suggest you do so.
Another option might be to hire an attorney as a consultant to help you with any of the things you don’t understand and to be available to ask for advice, and still do 95% of the case yourself. I sat through and watched a divorce case one time where a man did just that and he absolutely destroyed the attorney on the other side. The guy was very bright but had zero legal training or experience. I knew both the defendant and the plaintiff in the case and was familiar with the details so I had a good understanding of what was taking place.
Also as his own attorney, he was privy to all the attorney judge conferences where the other person was not. There are some advantages to acting as your own attorney, if you can make yourself think in legalize and learn the basic courtroom procedures.
The old saying that "the man that defends himself has a fool for a client," may be true in some cases, but it is not necessarily true in all cases. The attorney costs for my timber suit would have been two or three times the final settlement I collected. While many expenses are recoverable if you win, attorney fees are not a recoverable expense even if you win the case.
Additionally an attorney could have drawn the case out for even longer, as most attorneys are not worth spit. Sadly, the worse they are, the less efficient they are, and the slower they are, the more hours they can bill you at ($250 per hour and up in this area). It is in their monetary interests to keep such cases going forever if possible.
My very best advice is to never go to court if you can in any reasonable way avoid doing so. Attorneys are shysters and/or incompetents for the most part, and juries are at best unpredictable. Corruption is not something that just takes place in third world courts either.
I was called as an expert witness fairly often, on properties that I had appraised. So being in court was something I was comfortable with. Going to court is something many attorneys never get comfortable doing.
Both as a protective service worker and as an expert witness, I had to lead every single attorney that I worked with through the important issues to be covered in the questioning process and write out pertinent questions they needed to ask during the actual trial.
I was also the plaintiff in two civil cases. I lost the first one using a hired attorney. The second time I was much older and wiser and had by this time practically no respect for attorneys as a group. The second time I decided for many reasons to act as my own attorney.
The situation was that loggers (a father and his four sons had their own logging company) while cutting timber on a neighboring property had clear cut a few acres and several thousand dollars worth of prime timber off the back side of my property, and refused to reimburse me for it. Worse still, they cut down the best squirrel hunting area on this place right along the creek and in an undeclared wetlands area that I would have never logged myself. The area they clear cut also included the only section of mature White Oaks on the place, although I have planted hundreds of young White Oaks in other areas.
I tried talking to the neighboring land owner and to the owners of the timber company to no avail. For months and months all I could get was delays and general denials, with each of them blaming the loss on the other one. The case turned nasty, when the timber company threaded my life, and started telling me how easy it was for a house like mine to burn down in the middle of the night. There were no witnesses to the threats so the local sheriff could do nothing but talk to the loggers and let them know he was aware of the situation. The local DA refused to prosecute them as thieves, since he said he could not prove they cut my timber on purpose and since the loggers claimed the other land owner had told them this was his land.
There is no telling how many older retired people have been scared off by such threats by these men over the years. I have little doubt they were working a long and spotting some truly prime timber just over the line and they figured either I would not realize it was gone (this is a pretty big place) or they could get away with it even if I did spot their activity. Even though I am an old geezer myself, I am also an ex-marine, and a retired business owner, and I am not likely to take such intimidation as anything other than a bully with a big mouth. I particularly don't like bullies. It was finally crystal clear they were never going to be reasonable about the situation, so the game was afoot at that point.
My choices were:
1. Make a business decision, tuck my tail, and let these thieves get away with stealing my property and devastating one of my prime hunting areas knowing my attorney costs would far exceed any recovery awarded by the court, and would eat up untold hours in dealing with the problem.
2. Pay a hired gun attorney who would rob me even worse than the loggers had, and even if I won the suit, make a bad financial loss even worse, and quite probably botch the case.
3. Stand up and defend myself as my own attorney.
They left me no real recourse but to sue them. With my background and experience with attorneys and with the various courts and my knowledge of Texas real estate laws (I still have a pretty decent library of legal and real estate books) I decided I would act as my own attorney.
The case consumed much of my time for nearly three years. The most difficult part for me was all the legal papers that had to be filed with the court and getting them into the procedural format that the court would accept. I obtained several documents from similar cases and just used the same format and to some extent the same terminology that was typically used in similar cases. In other words I translated plain English into Legalize which was time consuming for a non-lawyer like myself.
I had to hire independent professional timber appraisers to appraise the value of the lost timber and had to have a second survey done showing precisely how much of my land had been clear cut by the loggers. The area in question was along almost half a mile stretch of land and they encroached anywhere from a few feet in some areas to 50 feet in other areas. Of course I photographed the area completely with pictures showing the property line and the lost timber. A good thing I did so immediately, as a year later the clear cut area was 6 foot high in cane and weeds and taking pictures would have been almost useless.
The neighboring land owner had a daughter that was an oil and gas attorney to handle his legal work for free so he was only out pocket for part of the final settlement. Of course she was trying to show off to Daddy and did nothing but stall and stall some more and did so in the most abrasive way possible.
The loggers used a hired attorney and I know they spent nearly three times what the original offer to settle was just on their attorney and ended up paying for their attorney plus a much larger settlement than I had originally offered them. I guess it was their version of Texas hold’em and they were all in very early on.
I filed the case with the district county court, not the small claims court. The court appearances at the various hearings and pleadings were pretty easy as the Judge went out of his way to insure I was given the same courtesy and standing as the two opposing attorneys, who did their best to talk over me and to ignore me. All I can say is good luck with trying that.
I think these two attorneys were originally thinking what luck to get an idiot country bumpkin defending himself, but it was far from their lucky day. I expect I knew more about Texas real estate law than either of the opposing attorneys, I just did not have their general law degree or their knowledge of this local court’s procedures, which should have given them a considerable advantage. However, my first hand knowledge of the facts of the case and my knowledge of Texas law gave me an advantage as well. Additionally this was my only case, while they were probably handling many other cases that were far more important to them than this one.
After untold delays, the defendants finally settled the day before we were finally due to go to trial. I have to admit to being a little ambivalent about settling it at that late date, as I had spent untold hours preparing for the trial and when I am fully prepared for an event I usually enjoy it. Still, I was paid what 90% of what I was asking for in the suit and more than I expected to get in court. A win is a win and I did have better ways to spend my next couple of days than playing at being a lawyer, so I jumped on it and put it all behind me.
I realize not everyone is able or willing to act as their own attorney, but if you can then I suggest you do so.
Another option might be to hire an attorney as a consultant to help you with any of the things you don’t understand and to be available to ask for advice, and still do 95% of the case yourself. I sat through and watched a divorce case one time where a man did just that and he absolutely destroyed the attorney on the other side. The guy was very bright but had zero legal training or experience. I knew both the defendant and the plaintiff in the case and was familiar with the details so I had a good understanding of what was taking place.
Also as his own attorney, he was privy to all the attorney judge conferences where the other person was not. There are some advantages to acting as your own attorney, if you can make yourself think in legalize and learn the basic courtroom procedures.
The old saying that "the man that defends himself has a fool for a client," may be true in some cases, but it is not necessarily true in all cases. The attorney costs for my timber suit would have been two or three times the final settlement I collected. While many expenses are recoverable if you win, attorney fees are not a recoverable expense even if you win the case.
Additionally an attorney could have drawn the case out for even longer, as most attorneys are not worth spit. Sadly, the worse they are, the less efficient they are, and the slower they are, the more hours they can bill you at ($250 per hour and up in this area). It is in their monetary interests to keep such cases going forever if possible.
My very best advice is to never go to court if you can in any reasonable way avoid doing so. Attorneys are shysters and/or incompetents for the most part, and juries are at best unpredictable. Corruption is not something that just takes place in third world courts either.
He was adament. I testified at his trial about the investigations I had performed. He questioned me very haltingly, and not very well. The prosecutor, to my surprise, did not even cross-examine me.
