The FA-22 Raptor fighter...

[PALADIN85020]

FIRST FA-22 FIGHTERS DELIVERED
TO LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE.

This is a great in-flight photo
of the FA-22 as the first aircraft
delivery was being made to Langley
AFB in Va. Langley is the first
Operational AFB for the FA-22. It is
a very beautiful AFB, located in a
picturesque location.

The aircraft flying along with the
FA-22 in the second photo is
the F-15, which will be replaced by
the FA-22, which is several times
better.

In actual in-flight (simulated)
Combat Operations against the F-15,
Two FA-22s were able to operate
without detection while they went
head-to-head against (8) F-15s. The
FA-22s scored missile hits (Kills)
against all of the F-15 Aircraft and the
FA-22s were never detected by
either the F-15s or by ground-based
radar. Maj. Gen. Rick Lewis said:
'The Raptor Operated Against All
Adversaries with Virtual Impunity;
Ground Based Systems Couldn't
Engage and NO Adversary Aircraft
Survived'!

FA-22s --
They're a titanium and carbon fiber
Dagger. They're so advanced that if
their on-board locator is switched off ,
even our own satellites can lose track
of them. They're the first military
aircraft ever built that is equipped
with a 'black-out button'. What that
means is this:

The best conditioned fighter pilots are
capable of maintaining consciousness
up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The
Raptor is capable of making 22+ G
turns. If someday an adversary builds
A missile that is capable of catching
up to one of these airplanes and a
Raptor pilot sees that a strike is
imminent, he hits the 'b.o.b.' and the
airplane makes a virtual u-turn,
leaving the missile to pass right on by.
They know that in the process the pilot will
temporarily lose consciousness, so the
Raptor then automatically comes back
to straight and level flight until he or she
wakes back up.

Pretty cool technology. I'm now advised that the F-22s have indeed become operational since 2006, and now the latest and greatest is the F-35! hope we'll get a budget that will fund more of these superplanes!


John

 

[johngalt]

Everything I've read about the F-22 says that it is a fantastic plane, but is too expensive. I think production has been stopped.

The F-35 apparently has had problems meeting its performance requirements and has huge cost overruns. I'm much more skeptical of that one.

 

[jgh4445]

I watch the raptors quite often as I get down to Panama City, where Tyndall AFB is located, quite often.

 

[rojodiablo]

A plane built for no threat, to replace perfectly capable planes which cost 1/10th as much, with technology ALREADY pirated and copied by the Chinese (Their bird flew before ours did....LOL)

And, since countermeasures are always easier to design and always cost less, the planes' stealth advantage will be rendered moot in short order.
Let's see just how willing we are to have them take on an offensive role outside our territories. We do not deploy the F35outside, and a big part of the reason is a very valid fear of losing the technology. This is a very real threat, as the Iranians already have shown they could simply command a very sophisticated drone to land where they wanted it. Let's not forget; that drone has all kinds of 'stealth' technology designed into it. And they found it, and just pirated it.

FWIW, we should have gotten in on the upgraded F15 for the AF. The one we sell to Australia, Korea and Israel. No need to develop or re-open a production line; it is there, up and running. And the new F15's are incredibly capable, with better avionics than the original/ in service and updated F15 fleet.
As it is, the newest F15 is without peer in a combat fighter role. It has only a few equals in a fighter-bomber role.
And, we could have gotten 10 F15's for every F22.

The Raptor??? Send the whole idea to the SCRAPtor.

 

[Onomea]

Must be a Boeing plant.

Check this baby out! http://youtu.be/GUlHhKvIX3w

 

[JPriest]

As far as I understand the main version of the F-35 is fine. The problems are with the VTOL version and maybe a few issues with the carrier version as well.

 

[Kanewpadle]

The Raptor is a better fighter. But since I worked on F-15 I'm biased towards them.

In it's day nothing could touch the F-15. It truly was an air superiority fighter capable of many roles.

And it could fly home safely while missing an entire wing!

An Israeli pilot flew this F-15 home safely after a midair collision!

I wonder if the Raptor can do that?

 

[BUFF]

Kind of dated news. The F-22 first entered service in December, 2005. The last F-22 was completed in December, 2011.

There were 187 production Raptors built and 8 test aircraft. One aircraft and pilot was lost in a crash in Alaska related to the life support system. The Air Force wanted about 850 of them, to eventually replace all F-15's as our air superiority fighter, but they got expensive.

Speaking of the F-15, Korea just cancelled their proposed buy of a new stealth version being developed for them and will re-bid their purchase with the intent of buying the F-35.

The F-22 is quite the aircraft. Looks like 2,000 mph when it's parked. Loud, too!

 

[feralmerril]

My 5 minute claim to fame is I was a guard on the YF-22 while it was being built and watched its maiden flight with dave fergenson aboard. That plane paid my bills for a couple years. I cant belive its been 23 years ago!
I also was there when tom morganfield took her up for its secound flight. Tom wore a gorillia headpiece, looked exactly like handejector! They were takeing pictures of him wearing that gorillia mask when he landed. Somewhere there has to be a picture of that! Cracked me up!

 

[Kanewpadle]

My 5 minute claim to fame is I was a guard on the YF-22 while it was being built and watched its maiden flight with dave fergenson aboard. That plane paid my bills for a couple years. I cant belive its been 23 years ago!

Gotta love the Skunk Works!

 

[BillyMagg]

A plane built for no threat, to replace perfectly capable planes which cost 1/10th as much, with technology ALREADY pirated and copied by the Chinese (Their bird flew before ours did....LOL)

And, since countermeasures are always easier to design and always cost less, the planes' stealth advantage will be rendered moot in short order.
Let's see just how willing we are to have them take on an offensive role outside our territories. We do not deploy the F35outside, and a big part of the reason is a very valid fear of losing the technology. This is a very real threat, as the Iranians already have shown they could simply command a very sophisticated drone to land where they wanted it. Let's not forget; that drone has all kinds of 'stealth' technology designed into it. And they found it, and just pirated it.

FWIW, we should have gotten in on the upgraded F15 for the AF. The one we sell to Australia, Korea and Israel. No need to develop or re-open a production line; it is there, up and running. And the new F15's are incredibly capable, with better avionics than the original/ in service and updated F15 fleet.
As it is, the newest F15 is without peer in a combat fighter role. It has only a few equals in a fighter-bomber role.
And, we could have gotten 10 F15's for every F22.

The Raptor??? Send the whole idea to the SCRAPtor.

Gee Rojo, that is the most "full-on" display I have seen in a long time, I'm surprised the administration hasn't hired you already. General Hawk Carlisle, chief of Air Combat Command calls the F-22 the most tactically important airplane on the planet. The Chinese are presently flying two J-20 prototypes, and one J-31 prototype, so no they didn't get the jump on us, they have NEVER flown a fifth gen aircraft on a single operational mission. The F-35 is for sale to all our partners and allies, Great Britain, Australia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Italy, etc, etc,. Also, the Aussies have never flown an F-15, they operate the Bug and Super Bug, maybe you can WIKI that.

The Marines and Air Force have already stood up operational F-35 squadrons and if I'm not mistaken the USN is reactivating the Grim Reapers to fly their first F-35Cs. Yes, as of tonight, the Raptor remains the most capable fighter aircraft ever flown, it will likely remain so for the foreseeable future. Hope this helps, I hate to see nice guys put up a display like this, but I have to admit, it certainly is a beauty. Air Force Brat- AKA billy magg

 

[Kanewpadle]

Gee Rojo, that is the most "full-on" display I have seen in a long time, I'm surprised the administration hasn't hired you already. General Hawk Carlisle, chief of Air Combat Command calls the F-22 the most tactically important airplane on the planet. The Chinese are presently flying two J-20 prototypes, and one J-31 prototype, so no they didn't get the jump on us, they have NEVER flown a fifth gen aircraft on a single operational mission. The F-35 is for sale to all our partners and allies, Great Britain, Australia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Italy, etc, etc,. Also, the Aussies have never flown an F-15, they operate the Bug and Super Bug, maybe you can WIKI that.

The Marines and Air Force have already stood up operational F-35 squadrons and if I'm not mistaken the USN is reactivating the Grim Reapers to fly their first F-35Cs. Yes, as of tonight, the Raptor remains the most capable fighter aircraft ever flown, it will likely remain so for the foreseeable future. Hope this helps, I hate to see nice guys put up a display like this, but I have to admit, it certainly is a beauty. Air Force Brat- AKA billy magg

Like the Glock to the 1911, we'll see if the 22 and 35 can surpass the legend of the F-15. Only time (and money) will tell.

 

[BillyMagg]

FIRST FA-22 FIGHTERS DELIVERED
TO LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE.

This is a great in-flight photo
of the FA-22 as the first aircraft
delivery was being made to Langley
AFB in Va. Langley is the first
Operational AFB for the FA-22. It is
a very beautiful AFB, located in a
picturesque location.

The aircraft flying along with the
FA-22 in the second photo is
the F-15, which will be replaced by
the FA-22, which is several times
better.

In actual in-flight (simulated)
Combat Operations against the F-15,
Two FA-22s were able to operate
without detection while they went
head-to-head against (8) F-15s. The
FA-22s scored missile hits (Kills)
against all of the F-15 Aircraft and the
FA-22s were never detected by
either the F-15s or by ground-based
radar. Maj. Gen. Rick Lewis said:
'The Raptor Operated Against All
Adversaries with Virtual Impunity;
Ground Based Systems Couldn't
Engage and NO Adversary Aircraft
Survived'!

FA-22s --
They're a titanium and carbon fiber
Dagger. They're so advanced that if
their on-board locator is switched off ,
even our own satellites can lose track
of them. They're the first military
aircraft ever built that is equipped
with a 'black-out button'. What that
means is this:

The best conditioned fighter pilots are
capable of maintaining consciousness
up to in the vicinity of 15+ G. The
Raptor is capable of making 22+ G
turns. If someday an adversary builds
A missile that is capable of catching
up to one of these airplanes and a
Raptor pilot sees that a strike is
imminent, he hits the 'b.o.b.' and the
airplane makes a virtual u-turn,
leaving the missile to pass right on by.
They know that in the process the pilot will
temporarily lose consciousness, so the
Raptor then automatically comes back
to straight and level flight until he or she
wakes back up.

Pretty cool technology. I'm now advised that the F-22s have indeed become operational since 2006, and now the latest and greatest is the F-35! hope we'll get a budget that will fund more of these superplanes!


John

Very nice thread, your last paragragh about pulling 15 to 22gs though is NOT TRUE, the Raptor is quite capable though of pulling 6gs at 50,000ft, and somewhere upwards of 10gs at lower altitudes, it is in fact an incredible airplane. billy

 

[LVSteve]

I still say the YF-23 was the better airplane, but it had no chance because it was Lockheed's turn at the money trough.

When the F-22s came to Nellis the phrase "Like clubbing baby seals" became famous again. It is how the F-22s in pairs described "killing" F-15s.

 

[sw1834]

I was sent this link in an e-mail some months ago and thought it was cool enough to keep. This footage is reported to be sea trials of an
F-35B


F-35B Ship Suitability Testing - YouTube

SWCA#1834

 

[BobC357]

<rant>
I've been around fighter aircraft since I was born in the early '50s. Props (P-47 and P-51) to the F-80, F-86, F-100 (my favorite of all time) and the other Century Series of fighters through the F-16 and beyond. I love them all - even the bulky Vought A7D Corsair My dad flew in 4 wars/conflicts and while I couldn't join the Air Force due to metal in me, I am active in retoring and preserving those classic jet aircraft.

But the earlier comment regarding Boeing rattles my feathers. Boeing consumed and absorbed EVERY American fighter aircraft company with the exception of Lockheed/Lockheed-Martin. They even ate their only competitor McDonnel Douglas without any Sherman Antitrust Act objection. But America's history of fighters isn't with either Lockheed or Boeing (who doesn't even manufacture fighters).

America's aviation master was North American Aviation! This is the company that built the B-25 long range bomber, P-51 Mustang, the Saber Jet & Super Saber, the XB-70 Valkyrie supersonic bomber. They made aviation history and records with the X-15 rocket plane and the B-1 Lancer bomber as well as most of their other aircraft. I don't even remember all the historic planes North American Aviation made.

But, by Boeing being allowed to consume every other company like North American, Hughes Helicopters, Stearman, and others, there remained only one single American fighter company -- Lockheed/Lockheed Martin.

With Lockheed having no competition and innovative concepts developed by others, innovation slowed and costs skyrocketed. It is no wonder that today's modern fighters all resemble each other and use similar technology. I often wonder what America's aviation landscape would be if North American were still around.

Anyway as a North American Aviation fan, I was sorry to see them bought and then cast aside leaving the wonder of fighter technology to just one single company.
</rant>

 

[Diamondtreo]

During my last 15 years at Boeing I had my hands on every single F-22 that was produced. We were partnered equally with Lockheed and Pratt & Whitney. Boeing Seattle produced the Aft Fuselage section that houses the engines and the two wings sans control surfaces. In addition, Boeing was responsible for Avionics, Software and Training mockups.

The design is unique to say the least. Originally the AF wanted 700+ aircraft, but by the time the budgets were cut the final number was less than 200. When we shut the line, all the tooling (government owned) was broken down & shipped to a storage facility - just in case...

My job, as a Manufacturing Engineer, was to find better, faster, cheaper methods to build the hardware, & we did a good job, holding to roughly a 60% improvement curve throughout the program. The first shipset took over 80,000 manhours to complete & the last one cost somewhere around 8,000 manhours (the last two sort of hit the plateau for savings).

Because we shipped the final assemblies to Marietta Georgia for final assembly, we never got to see one fly off after delivery. Once, the AF flew one up to Seattle & for a couple of days it was parked out in front of our factory while we go to see it up close. The only other time I saw actual flight demo was at the Reno Air Races about 5 years ago. THey are quite impressive!

I consider myself fortunate to have had the experience to be part of this great aircraft's history & to be able to retire as the program ended was (and still is) awesome.

John R., Manufacturing Engineer - Retired (darn it feels good to say that!)

By the way, BobC357, the joke up here is that Douglas bought Boeing out with Boeing's own money - they just kept the Boeing name for looks. If you look at most of the Corporate hierarchy, you will find McDonnel Douglas personnel, not Boeing folks.

 

[rojodiablo]

Gee Rojo, that is the most "full-on" display I have seen in a long time, I'm surprised the administration hasn't hired you already. General Hawk Carlisle, chief of Air Combat Command calls the F-22 the most tactically important airplane on the planet. The Chinese are presently flying two J-20 prototypes, and one J-31 prototype, so no they didn't get the jump on us, they have NEVER flown a fifth gen aircraft on a single operational mission. The F-35 is for sale to all our partners and allies, Great Britain, Australia, South Korea, Japan, Israel, Italy, etc, etc,. Also, the Aussies have never flown an F-15, they operate the Bug and Super Bug, maybe you can WIKI that.

The Marines and Air Force have already stood up operational F-35 squadrons and if I'm not mistaken the USN is reactivating the Grim Reapers to fly their first F-35Cs. Yes, as of tonight, the Raptor remains the most capable fighter aircraft ever flown, it will likely remain so for the foreseeable future. Hope this helps, I hate to see nice guys put up a display like this, but I have to admit, it certainly is a beauty. Air Force Brat- AKA billy magg

In March 2012, the GAO increased the estimated cost to $412 million per aircraft.[40][41]

I could go on digging. The Aussies talked of trying to get them exported to their AF. That idea was dropped because A: Cost, and B: Insufficient ability for ground attack support.

It's a neat example of what 7.3 billion dollars can buy you. But they are deployed in pairs, or as singles.... because no one can afford to man and service a full squadron of them. They were specifically NOT sent to the ME during the Libya/ Egypt turmoil because of the immediate load-up of costs associated with them.

Yeah, I get the 35 and the 22 confused at times. Either way, I will stand by my assessment of the F22. It spends more time in the service bay than it does in the air, even when compared to the service cost and regimen of other aircraft doing similar roles.
Chained to the tarmac, while the AF flies the older birds because they are still A: More dependable, and B: more economical to operate.

If you want me to be awe-struck that they were able to sneak up on an Iranian F4 with one and tell the pilot to bug out or eject, OKAY. I'll swoon....... nothing like a 1st year lineman smashing Terry Bradshaw on the sidelines. A $12 million dollar fighter jet with a real pedigree and a 45 year service life..... still going strong.... and we will have to wait and see if the Scraptor will still be airborne in the year 2035 to make a fair comparison.
Well; that, and the F4 has literally hundreds of kills under its' belt when all forces are tallied up over time. In fact, the F4 has more kills flying for other nations SINCE Vietnam than our own F4 fleet had in its' service life flying for us.

And yes, I was mistaken and mixed the 22 with the 35.
It's the 35 the Chicoms copied and sent up before we got our fancy little test hopping. That they stole our blueprints, copied the plane and got it airborne in 1/8 the time it took us, and for probably 1/1000th the cost should tell us something about what we are doing that needs changing. That is not AF specific, nor Marines or Navy. That is a much more elemental screw up, and it should be a real warning for the US that we share too much data and cross production with other nations and when it comes to defense......... if the rest of the world is stuck with AK47's and rocks because we won't share our best fighters with them????? Well, then throw rocks at our planes. Fair enough for me.

 

[Onomea]

I like 'em all! Yep. F-22, F-35s and, yeah, F-15. F-15 is like a '60s muscle car. Break the suound barrier going straight up. Like the F-16, too.

Yep. Our boys and girls, going in harm's way, deserve the very, very best. Don't give me the "it costs too much" complaint if it is my kid out there kickin' butt in a superior aircraft.

 

[feralmerril]

I was at the bottom of the totem pole as just a guard at lockheed for 35 years. However I rubbed shoulders with everyone from kelly johnson, the test pilots down to the janitors. The aircraft industry for most that stayed with it was like picking grapes. You got laid off if a contract was lost or over and went to another company that got the contract that was hireing. I belive technology was spread out that way. The YF 23 was competeing against the YF 22 at edwards AFB for the flyoff as to who got the contract. Just a fence divided us. I worked van nuys when lockheed competed with their cheyanne helicopter. The next hanger was the competions. It doesnt take much creative thinking about both companys engineers and test pilots getting together and comparing notes and ideas. Remember, uncle sam was paying both companys at the same time to come up with a product that would win. Somehow I was one of the few that never got laid off. Looking back at it all the jobs in the aircraft industry were good. Good pay and good benifits.