General questions from a new guy.

[fencr]

Gentlemen, a couple general questions please.

I'm just getting into reloading. I'm going to do .38 Sp, .357, and .45 for the time being for target loads. I'm gathering equipment and supplies. I've gotten my hands on some HP-38 and Bullseye. I have 2k Federal large pistol primers, 1k CCI 300s, grabbing CCI 500s today. I have the Lyman 49th Guide, the Alliant 2013 guide, I've pulled data from the online Hodgdon Guide, and Reloading for Handgunners by Sweeny
I understand not to deviate from the called for components or to do so very carefully.

Hodgdon does NOT seem to specify primers unless I missed it. Lyman calls for CCI or Rem 2 ½ in both 38 and 45. Alliant generally calls for CCI except for a few uses of Federal 150s with Power Pro 300MP. Sweeny for .45 essentially says use the primer that works in your press. He does not specify for .38.

Question: Can I use the Fed 150s with Bullseye or HP-38? Use will be in 45 with a Sig 1911 pushing a 200gr SWC or a Horn 185 XTP.

If the packaging is an indicator I gather that the Federal Lg pistol primers are more sensitive than the CCIs.

Question 2:
I thought Win231 and HP-38 were literally the same powder. Am I wrong?
Lyman 49th Guide hardbound p381
45 ACP 185 gr JHP
Start vel cup max gr vel cup
231 4.4 640 7,500 6.1 937 15,570
HP-38 3.5 599 7,500 5.8 960 17,900

** not swinging the press arm today but gettin ducks in a row..
thanks for your patience..
regards, Marc

 

[Cervus canadensis]

You can change between brands of primers provided they are the same size and magnum vs non-magnum grade. Example: Federal large pistol primers can be used in place of CCI large pistol primers. As always, when making changes or new load workups, start at or near the lowest recommended charge wt in your loading manuals and work up from there. There is a difference in hardness between primer brands so some firearms/load combos work better with certain brands of primers. Only safe testing will tell you how component combinations will work for your situation.

 

[Will2]

Welcome to the reloading portion of the forum...

Just one thought, the 38 and 45 are low pressure cartridges, at least compared to the 357. If you're able to get a full set of components, I'd suggest starting with either the 38 or the 45.

I don't load 45, but I expect the 38 would be easiest to start with. Only one 38 caution, the 38 brass is large enough to hold a double charge of many powders. So, be extra careful with your powder measuring until you know how accurate you are with your powder measure.

Will

 

[PRSearls]

Which tool to use?

I may be able to buy some 45 Colt reloads at a cheap price from a friend. I don't know who reloaded them so I'm wary of shooting this ammo. My plan is to pull the bullets, dump the powder and reload with my own powder. What tool would you suggest I use to pull the pullets? I'm just getting back into reloading after 35+ years. Thanks.

 

[leeloader]

Just a caveat that some may agree or disagree. I personally have no first hand knowledge. I just recalled the statement in the manual and thought I'd pass it along in case you use this setup for a caution and for others to comment.
-
Lee Manual, 2nd edition, p61 states: Federal brand primers must NOT be used with any Lee tray-type primer-feeding device except the new, patent pending Auto-Prime XR and Safety Prime. A single exception; a primer explosion guard is available for the Lee Load-Master. Lee avoids them only because they are dangerous in automatic feeders.

 

[arjay]

Primers are worth experimenting with.Sometimes a load that groups fairly well can be improved by switching to a different brand.

 

[arjay]

I may be able to buy some 45 Colt reloads at a cheap price from a friend. I don't know who reloaded them so I'm wary of shooting this ammo. My plan is to pull the bullets, dump the powder and reload with my own powder. What tool would you suggest I use to pull the pullets? I'm just getting back into reloading after 35+ years. Thanks.

I've only used the hammer type of tool.More than a handful of loads would be awfully tedious with it.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

PRSearls; If you're shooting a Ruger 45 Colt no matter what they will be safe. I pulled bullets for 34 years with both kinetic and collet pullers, if it is a large batch, it is a boring pain in the butt! The lead bullets are usually only good for recasting you don't know the powder or primer and you can't tell by looking on the primers and very few powder are optically discernible (Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot or Trail Boss you can tell) So if you have a very strong revolver, shoot 'em up. Ivan

 

[rwsmith]

Gentlemen, a couple general questions please.

I'm just getting into reloading. I'm going to do .38 Sp, .357, and .45 for the time being for target loads. I'm gathering equipment and supplies. I've gotten my hands on some HP-38 and Bullseye. I have 2k Federal large pistol primers, 1k CCI 300s, grabbing CCI 500s today. I have the Lyman 49th Guide, the Alliant 2013 guide, I've pulled data from the online Hodgdon Guide, and Reloading for Handgunners by Sweeny
I understand not to deviate from the called for components or to do so very carefully.



*** A change in components means you should drop back and work a load back up again.



Hodgdon does NOT seem to specify primers unless I missed it. Lyman calls for CCI or Rem 2 ½ in both 38 and 45. Alliant generally calls for CCI except for a few uses of Federal 150s with Power Pro 300MP. Sweeny for .45 essentially says use the primer that works in your press. He does not specify for .38.



*** Work up your load with the same primers regardless of brand. If you have to change in mid stream drop back a few tenths of a grain and work up again. ANY small pistol primer will work for .38 but I try to stick to the main USA brands. You CAN use magnum primers where standard are indicated if you work the load up with the same combo realizing the magnum primer gives a little more pressure of it's own.



Question: Can I use the Fed 150s with Bullseye or HP-38? Use will be in 45 with a Sig 1911 pushing a 200gr SWC or a Horn 185 XTP.

If the packaging is an indicator I gather that the Federal Lg pistol primers are more sensitive than the CCIs.

Question 2:
I thought Win231 and HP-38 were literally the same powder. Am I wrong?
Lyman 49th Guide hardbound p381
45 ACP 185 gr JHP
Start vel cup max gr vel cup
231 4.4 640 7,500 6.1 937 15,570
HP-38 3.5 599 7,500 5.8 960 17,900



*** Loading books can be confusing, especially if you use more than one book because they can be so different. They are tested under different conditions which explains some of the variance. Win296 and H110 are the same powder but the Handbook people don't want to just 'blanket' something as important as handloads so they test each separately, coming up with sometimes different results. Also some test with guns while other test with standard pressure barrels. Even two guns of the same make, model, barrel length, all the same can give different results due to tolerances not being exactly the same for each one.

Oops I have to write 10 characters here

 

[David Sinko]

I have safely loaded MANY thousands of rounds with Lee tray type primer feeding devices (hand held Autoprime and Pro 1000 progressive loader) and all types of Federal primers. While the Autoprime is definitely a good tool, the Pro 1000 is a bad design and a waste of money. Lee makes some good stuff, but the Pro 1000 can not be included on that list.

Federal primers are more sensitive and easier to properly seat below flush. They tend to wrinkle a little easier than other brands when they are seated, but that's fine. Many shooters desire this "crush fit" and it ensures reliability. Winchester and CCI are great too and I load whatever I can get at the time. I use full power mainsprings in all my revolvers so I don't care about primer "sensitivity." I did try some Remington large pistol primers but they wouldn't feed through my Dillon 650.

Let me say that the above pertains to Federal pistol primers. I do not use Federal rifle primers as they tend to provide a poor gas seal in Federal's own soft .223 and .308 brass after it has been loaded once or twice. I go out of my way to find CCI primers for rifle loads.

Dave Sinko

 

[SMSgt]

In all my shooting and reloading years I've yet to detect any noticeable difference in reliability or accuracy when changing from one brand primer to another. One must bear in mind that at typical handgun ranges (15-25 yards) slight differences are negligible, while rifle ranges cause more noticeable change. If I were concerned with 1000-yard match accuracy, primer brand might be a concern, as would a slew of other things the typical reload need not concern himself with.

Use small/large pistol/rifle primers where called for, use magnum primers where the used powder data requires. Brand name will make little difference to the average shooter.

Standard reloading safety practices always apply. Reduce powder loads (I use the minimum data load) when changing components and work up. Max loads seldom produce the best loads in terms of accuracy or case life, and increase wear on the firearm for a little increase in velocity.

Some will claim that some brands are not as reliable (too hard), causing misfires or requiring double strikes. I've had a total of two misfires in all my years, both dud primers (CCI in the sake of honesty) from the same pack of primers . . . and that was back in the '70s. I've used all domestic brands of primers (I avoid Russian junk) since then with no further primer-caused issues in a variety of make/model firearms. No problems whatsoever. If your firearm doesn't work well with Brand A, as some claim, the problem lies with the firearm--not the primer--so pick your primer brand accordingly or have the firearm repaired.

OP, it will be your lucky day when (if) you find two reloading data tables that agree and/or provide the same data as to make of every component. Load tables are a guide, not an absolute. The true enjoyment of reloading is to be able to work up a custom load for your specific firearm, often a load that is listed in any load table.

And yes, HP-38 and W231 are the same powders, the only difference being the label and price (HP-38 is typically a couple bucks less). Any differences between the two powders in load data may be based on older testing. Just because something is a "new" edition doesn't necessarily mean all the data has been updated. Sometimes it's a matter of merely introducing new cartridges or components. And sometimes older powders are dropped from production or properties changed. I use HP-38 for all my handguns loads (9mm Makarov, 9mm Luger, .45 ACP) and base my loads on Hodgdon's reloading data, which often doesn't give the bullet brand name and doesn't show the primer or casing brand.

 

[buck460XVR]

If you are getting your info off the Hodgdon site, if you pres the link to print the recipes it will give you the primer they used along with the test barrel.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have used Federa100 , cci 500 & 550 and win. spm primers in my 357 and 38 special loads.
The Federal is the "Softer" primer of the three and a light hit will set it off most of the time . The cci has a thicker material than most others and it does need a solid hit and I find the Winchester in the middle of these two.
The Winchester is said to be a little warmer than the cci but I did not find that much difference in my chrony readings.

As mentioned, I too found that in the 6" mag and the 1 7/8" snub nose that I DID get different velocity and ALSO different groups between the three primers, so it does pay to change if you are not happy with the accuracy you may get from a certain load.

With the Bullseye and w231 powder you will have lots of options in the days ahead and am sure that you will find a load that does very well in your loadings.
You might try just 5-10 loads in your test before you go hog crazy in loading a bunch of loads. A load that shot well today might suck a week from now.

Have fun and stay safe.

 

[ozo]

fencr [and anyone], just an FYI.....too be safer

Use the correct caliber (bullet) designation. Some would not know you meant [.45acp] if you hadn't said " Use will be in 45 with a Sig 1911", and 357 could mean [357sig]. You did specify .38Sp [.38special].

Loading cartridges could be very dangerous without certain specifics.

Also, check your .45acp brass and make sure you don't have mixed primer pocket sizes......some use large, and some use small.

" Lyman calls for CCI or Rem 2 ½ in both 38 and 45."---fencr
This is incorrect......I don't believe you will get a Remington 2 1/2 primer in a .38special brass case. You won't get them in all .45acp cases either, as some use small pistol primers.
Yet, by lack of specifics on a given caliber, you say 45 , and you mean .45colt, then a Remington 2 1/2 will fit.

Some specifics in reloading don't matter.....like .1gr of powder vs .2gr or CCI primer brand vs Winchester brand, but data for a .45acp vs .45colt may make a large dangerous difference.

I am by no means picking at you.....I just care that you be safe....and have fun too. You said you are new to this......so it's a very good time to learn it right....and be safe doing so.

 

[blujax01]

As a relative Noob myself, (3 years) although I have developed preferences among primer brands, there is no requirement (beyond the Lee thing) to be brand specific. A CCI 500/Federal 100/Remington
1-1/2 are interchangeable small pistol primers.

 

[fencr]

Thanks all of you for the input..

You're right I wasn't specific. I did mean 45 ACP and 357 Mag (not Sig). I will print the Hodgdon's data for the full details.

Different question.
What about .38 cases? Is it safe to load the +P recipes in standard .38 Sp cases?

Question
I noticed some of the loads listed in bold or otherwise as most accurate are mostly if not all (?) at the maximum for a given powder/bullet combination. Should I draw conclusions from this?

Another question.
How about slugging your barrels? Is this common for guys reloading or just the guys competing?

Thank you again.
Marc

 

[SMSgt]

Reloading author Duke Venturino (authored much of Lyman's info) says it's not worthwhile to slug most pistol barrels, but yes on revolvers due to the differences in cylinder, forcing cone, and bore size. I've never bothered on my pistols. But if it makes you feel better, slug away.

What any source states as most accurate was for that gun on that day under that conditions. My experience with my Rem 700 in .30-06 showed me that max loads went not as accurate as mid-range loads were. Another effect of max loads is they tend to make shooters jumpy, and not gun--no matter how accurate it is--is any more accurate than its shooter.

One benefit of handloading is you can work up a loads that produces spectacular result in your gun. Put that same round in a different gun and the result likely will be entirely different.

As for +p cases, I've read they're the same as standard cases, but I don't know, not bothering with them myself.

Thanks Buck 460 for the tidbit on Hodgdon data. I'm the scribble-it-down type and never bothered to print it.

 

[rwsmith]

Thanks all of you for the input..

You're right I wasn't specific. I did mean 45 ACP and 357 Mag (not Sig). I will print the Hodgdon's data for the full details.

Different question.
What about .38 cases? Is it safe to load the +P recipes in standard .38 Sp cases?

Question
I noticed some of the loads listed in bold or otherwise as most accurate are mostly if not all (?) at the maximum for a given powder/bullet combination. Should I draw conclusions from this?

Another question.
How about slugging your barrels? Is this common for guys reloading or just the guys competing?

Thank you again.
Marc

You should draw the conclusion that the heaviest load is probably not the most accurate. Often it's somewhere between min and max and it's up to you to find that point for your gun.

I use any brass for any load of .38, I just make sure I keep them in the same marked box.

 

[Aticus]

PRSearls; If you're shooting a Ruger 45 Colt no matter what they will be safe. I pulled bullets for 34 years with both kinetic and collet pullers, if it is a large batch, it is a boring pain in the butt! The lead bullets are usually only good for recasting you don't know the powder or primer and you can't tell by looking on the primers and very few powder are optically discernible (Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot or Trail Boss you can tell) So if you have a very strong revolver, shoot 'em up. Ivan

I have to disagree with the part about 45 Colt in a Ruger. If you are referencing the Blackhawk you maybe correct but not with the Vaquero. The New Model Vaquero is made on the older smaller frame and Ruger specifies not to use the hotter 45 Colt loads.

All handloading authorities will tell you if you don't know what is in a reload don't shoot it. I've seen every thing from smokeless powder in a percussion revolver to a load of W 231 in a 12 gauge. There is no gun that can't be blown up. Best to pull the bullets fertilize the lawn with the powder and load your own.

 

[arjay]

You can slug your barrel if you like,I never have.Ive found it more useful to drop a bullet through each hole in the cylinder.If it just falls through,it won't group well.