What? The gun,the eggs or both?
629 explodes
- Thread starter Leah
- Start date
What? The gun,the eggs or both?
The eggs.. usually :-D .I need to get my stuff out and see if 20 gr ( double charge) of Unique will fit in a case.Or maybe he was using Bullseye?
MakeMyNight
Member
For what it's worth:
Some decades ago, Winchester/Olin warned reloaders using 296 propellant, not to fire loads using 296, below a certain temperature range.
I'm thinking it was below 30 degress?
Apparently, case pressures proved erratic below the specified temperature range.
I found this to be true during one cold, mid-winter saturday morning, while firing My Ruger Security Six.
The first few cartridges fired normally, then one of the fired loads seemed overly powerful.
I stopped right there, checked the gun, then went home.
Fortunately, the gun was fine and so was I, however, puzzled.
I stopped in at the local gunshop, picked up a current free copy of W-W's loading data, and right there inside the publication, was the stated warning.
From that day forward, I never again used W-W 296 for cold weather loads, rather I stuck to 2400 for winter shooting with magnum cartridges.
Some decades ago, Winchester/Olin warned reloaders using 296 propellant, not to fire loads using 296, below a certain temperature range.
I'm thinking it was below 30 degress?
Apparently, case pressures proved erratic below the specified temperature range.
I found this to be true during one cold, mid-winter saturday morning, while firing My Ruger Security Six.
The first few cartridges fired normally, then one of the fired loads seemed overly powerful.
I stopped right there, checked the gun, then went home.
Fortunately, the gun was fine and so was I, however, puzzled.
I stopped in at the local gunshop, picked up a current free copy of W-W's loading data, and right there inside the publication, was the stated warning.
From that day forward, I never again used W-W 296 for cold weather loads, rather I stuck to 2400 for winter shooting with magnum cartridges.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
I think your trusted friend who sold you those reloads owes you a new gun.............
Big Cholla
Member
Factory Ammo Errors
Ray Chapman was fond of showing his students a WW .45acp case that he carried in his pocket. It had NO PRIMER FLASH HOLE. The significance of this particular round is that it cost Ray his second world USPSA championship in South Africa. He was sponsored by WW and used their furnished ammo. When this round failed to fire, he came in second rather than winning. He picked up the round from the ground and brought it home to examine. So even one of the very best ammo manufacturers in the world can also have problems. ............... Big Cholla
Well, on the plus side, since you have that new holster you have to get a new 629. No excuses!
Regarding the reloads... anybody can make a mistake, no matter how good they are. Could have been equipment error, too. Factory ammo has much less of a chance of being defective, but I personally know at least one person that had a squib load on, IIRC, factory ammunition.
Sorry to see your gun exploded. Make sure you post some photos of the replacement.
Ray Chapman was fond of showing his students a WW .45acp case that he carried in his pocket. It had NO PRIMER FLASH HOLE. The significance of this particular round is that it cost Ray his second world USPSA championship in South Africa. He was sponsored by WW and used their furnished ammo. When this round failed to fire, he came in second rather than winning. He picked up the round from the ground and brought it home to examine. So even one of the very best ammo manufacturers in the world can also have problems. ............... Big Cholla
model70hunter
Member
Leah; Trust Me. It happened! I always buy quality rounds and shoot reloads from a trusted person. I shot one round and I didn't see hole in the paper 30 feet away. The recoil felt normal. I cocked the trigger. I fired.[/QUOTE said:Glad you were OK. When I was young I found a NIB Colt SAA in 38 Special for cheap in a small gun shop. It had set unwanted for about 10 years. Was I happy.
I was shooting factory 38 wad cutters and a fellow I knew offered some reloads 40% of factory, I bought 5 boxes.
The first few shots hit close to factory ammo. Then one shot did not hit the target.
I almost fired again but not on paper bothered me. I pulled the cylinder and discovered a wad cutter in the BBL. Tapped it out with an aluminum rod. I tried some more, a couple of rounds later another did not hit paper. Yep stuck in the BBL.
Due to the BBL Cylinder gap even a primer can make lots of noise. Being these were lighter loads I probably would have had a bulged BBL.
Note that out of your statement I pulled the part where you bought reloads from a trusted source.
There is no trusted source for reloads except ones self or a partner you have loaded with for years and then it's iffie.
I have only one paranoia in life, it is others reloads. Well a 2nd smaller one is complete 100% trust in Stainless Steel firearms that use high pressure loads. I now have 2 629's a CAM rev 4 and a new ILC one. I trust my 29, 27's and 19 over my 6xx models for this very reason.
I hope all goes well for you with S&W. Life isn't easy and some lessons are expensive. I'm glad you were not hurt.
flagman1776
Member
Another buddy... I'll call Charlie... had a Victory model back in the 70s. It was a decent shooting gun. Charlie admitted to accidentally using a wrong load & blowing the forcing cone. He returned the gun to S&W. S&W did not have any more Victory barrels so they sold him a M10 barrel as a replacement... I think it cost Chas 37.50... & the gun was shipped back to him a few weeks later.
I didn't see the damaged gun. After that Charlie used a spring clamp to hold the page open on the loading manual.
I've seen pictures of black powder revolvers blown open in just this fashion... in variably from using smokeless in a BP gun.
I have also had many offers to sell or reload for others. I won't do it. I will have a friend bring their components over & use my Dillon 550 loader... & I step back once they get the hang of it. I like the manual advance, the ability to check a questionable case, the ability to remove cases from any station for checking or rework... and finally, the ability to run single cases through the process.
I didn't see the damaged gun. After that Charlie used a spring clamp to hold the page open on the loading manual.
I've seen pictures of black powder revolvers blown open in just this fashion... in variably from using smokeless in a BP gun.
I have also had many offers to sell or reload for others. I won't do it. I will have a friend bring their components over & use my Dillon 550 loader... & I step back once they get the hang of it. I like the manual advance, the ability to check a questionable case, the ability to remove cases from any station for checking or rework... and finally, the ability to run single cases through the process.
Last edited:
With the info about first "clean miss" (no hole) I am inclined to guess obstructed bore from a squib load with full-power second shot. However in my experience that usually results in a bulged barrel and not a blown-out cylinder and missing top strap. I am disinclined to call BS on this with the already mentioned long lead-in time.
Rock185
US Veteran
Leah, The absolute most important point is that no one was hurt. Had anyone been seriously injured, other issues, squib/double charge/wrong powder/defective gun,etc, would seem rather unimportant. I do not consider your posts BS and thank you for posting this.
I'm with some of the others, and only shoot new major manufacturer factory ammo, and my own reloads. I can only recall buying reloads twice in my life, over 25 years ago now. Different times, different calibers, different outfits. Both were poor quality. One caliber loaded way too hot, the other, way too light. If one of my guns blows up with reloads, they will be my own. I have never had a squib, or significant overcharge, but others I was shooting with have. One of my co-workers experienced the classic Glock "Ka-Boom" during a qualification. You guessed it, "factory" reloads were being used for training and qualification. Use of factory reloads was discontinued after that...
I'm with some of the others, and only shoot new major manufacturer factory ammo, and my own reloads. I can only recall buying reloads twice in my life, over 25 years ago now. Different times, different calibers, different outfits. Both were poor quality. One caliber loaded way too hot, the other, way too light. If one of my guns blows up with reloads, they will be my own. I have never had a squib, or significant overcharge, but others I was shooting with have. One of my co-workers experienced the classic Glock "Ka-Boom" during a qualification. You guessed it, "factory" reloads were being used for training and qualification. Use of factory reloads was discontinued after that...
RIDE-RED 350r
Member
I agree 100%. Guy joins, wait's SIX MONTHS TO POST, blows up an expensive gun just for attention. What else could it be?
Right.. And now with more information and conversation I retract my previous statement.
I mistook the pic for the other one that has been floating around for awhile. And honestly, didn't look at his join date.
Pardon me if it seemed an odd first post at first.
Last edited:
Snakeshift
Member
I know I'm late to the party but, that looks like a classic case of a double-charge.
I've never seen one in person, but have seen many many KABOOM pics on various internet forums over the years. When you blow the top-strap off of a large caliber revolver it's almost always a ammunition (over/double charge) problem.
Come to think of it I've never heard/seen it be anything else.
The perils of handloading!
I've never seen one in person, but have seen many many KABOOM pics on various internet forums over the years. When you blow the top-strap off of a large caliber revolver it's almost always a ammunition (over/double charge) problem.
Come to think of it I've never heard/seen it be anything else.
The perils of handloading!
The ammo
Good evening. I rummaged around and found all of my ammo boxes. The load that I was supposed to be shooting was supposed to be : primer-large pistol 200 , powder HS6. Wt. 16 gr, bullet 240 fmj, OR : primer 225 HP, powder HS6. Wt. 16 gr, bullet 240 fmj. Since some of the other loads I have are listed at 28 gr of powder, would 32gr of powder blow up the gun? By the way I had been shooting at my target with a .22 and a .243 for a while. I did not see any .44 hole until I walked up to the target. The first shot felt like every other shot I have ever fired. I am not sure which shot hit the target. Needless to say I will not be shooting any of the reloads that I have. I do not trust them. I guess I will off er to sell them back to the guy that reloaded them for me. Thank you all for your help and advice.
Good evening. I rummaged around and found all of my ammo boxes. The load that I was supposed to be shooting was supposed to be : primer-large pistol 200 , powder HS6. Wt. 16 gr, bullet 240 fmj, OR : primer 225 HP, powder HS6. Wt. 16 gr, bullet 240 fmj. Since some of the other loads I have are listed at 28 gr of powder, would 32gr of powder blow up the gun? By the way I had been shooting at my target with a .22 and a .243 for a while. I did not see any .44 hole until I walked up to the target. The first shot felt like every other shot I have ever fired. I am not sure which shot hit the target. Needless to say I will not be shooting any of the reloads that I have. I do not trust them. I guess I will off er to sell them back to the guy that reloaded them for me. Thank you all for your help and advice.
I think a double charge of hs6 (16 gr is listed as max with a 240 gr bullet) would fit in a 44 case.I definitely would let the reloader know that his ammo blew up my gun and since he's selling them the advantage is all yours at this point.
This is why none of us should be selling or giving away reloads.If he has any sense he'll replace your gun.
This is why none of us should be selling or giving away reloads.If he has any sense he'll replace your gun.
Last edited:
Not sure about the use HS6 with a 240 gr. Bullet in a. 44. To fast a powder for me. Seem to remember a 210 gr bullet was about max in the old load data books. Those were mostly mid range loads at 12 grs.
Anyone have current load data showing HS6 with this load? Leah, how were these reloads crimped?
Giz
Anyone have current load data showing HS6 with this load? Leah, how were these reloads crimped?
Giz
Nemo288
Member
Speer manual #11 show 16gr to be MAX with a 240 including their TMJ (HS-6).
Their test gun was a 10" Dan Wesson which is kind of different.
Modeling in QuickLoad, this load shows higher pressure
than all their other max loads, all else being the same.
Moving along to Speer manual #14 they show a max of 13.7 gr of HS-6
under a 240. Quite a drop! Test gun is a 7.5" Redhawk.
Entering 13.5 grains in QuickLoad renders pretty much the same pressure
as all the other max loads such as the ubiquitous 24 gr of 296/110. ~35Kpsi.
I sure wish more outifts did actual pressure barrel tests and published the results.
Knowing what I do now, there is no way I would shoot that load.
===
Nemo
Their test gun was a 10" Dan Wesson which is kind of different.
Modeling in QuickLoad, this load shows higher pressure
than all their other max loads, all else being the same.
Moving along to Speer manual #14 they show a max of 13.7 gr of HS-6
under a 240. Quite a drop! Test gun is a 7.5" Redhawk.
Entering 13.5 grains in QuickLoad renders pretty much the same pressure
as all the other max loads such as the ubiquitous 24 gr of 296/110. ~35Kpsi.
I sure wish more outifts did actual pressure barrel tests and published the results.
Knowing what I do now, there is no way I would shoot that load.
===
Nemo
Hodgdon manual #26 shows 13.5 gr HS-6 with a 240 gr jacketed bullet as giving 26,600 CUP, which is well below the 43,500 CUP the 44 mag was spec'd at by SAAMI when the manual was printed. That is their max load BTW with that powder.
Even the Speer #8 which is everyone's go to manual when they want to find hot loads that are supposedly safe because they are in a manual by a major manu, shows only 13.5 grains as max with HS-6 under a 240 jacketed bullet.
model70hunter
Member
If you are going to have the reload person/company pay for the revolver this step needs to be documented via video tape. Each load needs to be weighed, marked and kept in it's own marked storage bag. The ammo box too needs to be preserved.
Awww heck... just cut that 'ol barrel off flush right before the last stuck bullet... then it will be one fine "sheriff's model" and without all of that extra barrel, squibs will no longer be a problem, will it??
Wow... that just boggles my mind that someone would manage to fill their barrel like that.
Note that even though the barrel split at one point or another, all of the metal is still there.
Just to show that it's hard to grenade a cylinder with extra bullets (and that some folk REALLY don't pay attetion), here's an M1917 barrel that had 7 bullets lodged in it at one point. I'm guessing the shooter fired an 8th round before it stopped working! Cylinders aren't heat treated on these revolvers and the wall thickness is even less than the 629. Even though the normal chamber pressure of .45 ACP is less than full .44 Mag level by quite a bit, trying to move 6 or seven bullets might have driven it up a skosh...
Last edited:
The O.P.'s 629 was an obvious double charge or super over pressure load, IMO.
Now with the O.P.'s 629 out of the way, I'm curious about Jaymore's picture of a bulged & split U.S. 1917 barrel.
In my show & tell box I have a U.S. 1917 barrel that bulged and split through the top and both sides when one bullseye target lead SWC hit one other bullet out of the same box. The bulge is above the forward locking lug. The reloads were from a Dillion 450. I'm confident the lodged bullet was from no powder charge and the following shot was a normal reload. I forget the powder charge.
Consequently I'm surprised to see a 1917 barrel that accumulated 7 to 8 bullets. Jaymore, do you know how that happened?
Also I noticed one minor error in you post. 1917 cylinders certainly can't contain as much pressure as .44 mag cylinders, but they were heat treated because Uncle Sam demanded it. The earlier .455 cylinders were not heat treated which is the seldom mentioned reason why converting them to .45 ACP is questionable. SAAMI m.a.c. pressure for the wiser .45 colt conversions is 15,000 psi vs. 21,000 for the .45 ACP.
Now with the O.P.'s 629 out of the way, I'm curious about Jaymore's picture of a bulged & split U.S. 1917 barrel.
In my show & tell box I have a U.S. 1917 barrel that bulged and split through the top and both sides when one bullseye target lead SWC hit one other bullet out of the same box. The bulge is above the forward locking lug. The reloads were from a Dillion 450. I'm confident the lodged bullet was from no powder charge and the following shot was a normal reload. I forget the powder charge.
Consequently I'm surprised to see a 1917 barrel that accumulated 7 to 8 bullets. Jaymore, do you know how that happened?
Also I noticed one minor error in you post. 1917 cylinders certainly can't contain as much pressure as .44 mag cylinders, but they were heat treated because Uncle Sam demanded it. The earlier .455 cylinders were not heat treated which is the seldom mentioned reason why converting them to .45 ACP is questionable. SAAMI m.a.c. pressure for the wiser .45 colt conversions is 15,000 psi vs. 21,000 for the .45 ACP.
Similar threads
- Locked
