The Wheelgun is Alive and Well

[Jaymo]

My question for the LEOs who would not be willing to trade in the spray and pray capabilities of the bottom feeder, for the revovler is:
Just how many running, Hong Kong action flick shootouts have you ever been in, and how many do you expect to get in?
How many armed gangs are you taking on?
I think Hollyweird had infected LE agencies with the perceived need for cops to have a whole lotta rounds on tap, for extended gun battles.

I think some of you have forgotten that you are not soldiers, you are not terminators, you are not Lone Wolf McQuade. You are LEOs. You are peace officers. You are not supposed to be armed to the teeth and look/act like ninja/Rambo/Gestapo.

I'd rather have LEOs with cool head and excellent shooting skills, armed with revolvers, than LEOs with lead-squirting bottom feeders and the accompanying philosophy of failure.
Give me Bill Jordans, and Jim Cirillos anyday, over wannabe Rambos.

Bear in mind, I have NOTHING against LEOs. I have good friends who are on the job. However, the militarization of LE agencies is troubling.
Gun companies have convinced those in control of the purse strings that LEOs need the latest/greatest Combat Tupperware.
Not because officers/deputies/agents/marshals/etc shoot them better or are more likely to come home at end of shift, but because they are in the business of making and selling guns.

I feel better protected by cops who can actually shoot and are carrying .357s, than with those who expect high round count to make up for mediocre to poor shooting.

Not looking to offend anyone, but I'm sure some will get offended, anyway.
Honesty is guaranteed to offend somebody.

I understand the desire for higher capacity. I was under it's spell for a long time.

 

[MacGuffin]

My question for the LEOs who would not be willing to trade in the spray and pray capabilities of the bottom feeder, for the revovler is:
Just how many running, Hong Kong action flick shootouts have you ever been in, and how many do you expect to get in?
How many armed gangs are you taking on?
I think Hollyweird had infected LE agencies with the perceived need for cops to have a whole lotta rounds on tap, for extended gun battles.

I think some of you have forgotten that you are not soldiers, you are not terminators, you are not Lone Wolf McQuade. You are LEOs. You are peace officers. You are not supposed to be armed to the teeth and look/act like ninja/Rambo/Gestapo.

I'd rather have LEOs with cool head and excellent shooting skills, armed with revolvers, than LEOs with lead-squirting bottom feeders and the accompanying philosophy of failure.
Give me Bill Jordans, and Jim Cirillos anyday, over wannabe Rambos.

Bear in mind, I have NOTHING against LEOs. I have good friends who are on the job. However, the militarization of LE agencies is troubling.
Gun companies have convinced those in control of the purse strings that LEOs need the latest/greatest Combat Tupperware.
Not because officers/deputies/agents/marshals/etc shoot them better or are more likely to come home at end of shift, but because they are in the business of making and selling guns.

I feel better protected by cops who can actually shoot and are carrying .357s, than with those who expect high round count to make up for mediocre to poor shooting.

Not looking to offend anyone, but I'm sure some will get offended, anyway.
Honesty is guaranteed to offend somebody.

I understand the desire for higher capacity. I was under it's spell for a long time.

Jaymo,

I understand your perspective. And, I am in no way offended by your point of view.

Unfortunately, times have changed since the days when Bill Jordan patrolled the Southwest border and Jim Cirillo was navigating life and death situations while on stakeout in NYC.

I was just involved in a search warrant (drug-related) on a residence the day before yesterday where several firearms (along with quite a bit of synthetic drugs) were seized, one of which was an AR, which had multiple 30 round mags nearby. The game has changed. I didn't want it to change, but it has. I want to go home to my family every night after work. I, nor my colleagues, ever want to find ourselves outgunned by someone who could care less about the well-being of my wife and kids, or YOURS.

Just look at yesterday's shooting at LAX. That individual had quite a bit of firepower at his disposal. Not a Saturday night special that might have been the case 30 years ago.

I am not trying to be Rambo, or any other action hero for that matter. This is real life. And, the stakes are much higher than box office revenues. When we train, and we train a lot, we are guided by lessons learned by actual events. NEVER fictional ones.

On a side note, I still love revolvers, and I do carry a M38 off-duty in the warmer months.

 

[Jaymo]

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur.

 

[DR505]

My first LE gun, back in the 80's, was a 4" Model 27-3 (see photo). I would feel fine carrying it today, but regs call for specific firearms, and none of them revolvers. I now carry a Glock 21 in .45 ACP.

 

[Old cop]

Jaymo: You're not a dinosaur, you just stated an opinion. I was talking w/a young local cop the other day and he had so much stuff on his duty belt I predict early onset back problems. My duty gear consisted of my .38, 12 extra rounds, handcuffs and a batton. That was heavy enough.

 

[MacGuffin]

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur.

Believe me, Jaymo, that makes two of us!

Not many of us left that qualified with revolvers as our primary duty weapon in the Academy!

Even if the game has changed, I do indeed long for the days...

 

[Steve in Vermont]

While I carried a .38 for most of my career and was perfectly happy w/it, we transitioned to auto loaders in the mid 1980's to keep up w/the bad guys and it just made sense. I've been retired since '97 and am now too old and infirmed to go back into LE, but if I did the auto loader would still make tactical sense. In retirement the .38 fills whatever need exists in my relatively safe and tame daily routine.

Pls. don't misunderstand, I prefer revolvers and always have but the thugs now have better guns and I would not want to be caught short.

I couldn't have said it better, although I was pleased to transition from the .38 blued to the .357 stainless.

 

[Jaymo]

I'm a revolvasaurus.

125 grain HP .357 has been king of the heap for a long time.
Good shooting, and excellent stopping power trump lots of lesser bullets.
I forget who said that "only hits count".
Unfortunately, brass don't get it. Military or Police brass don't seem to get the needs of the grunt.
The game hasn't changed that much. The guns that were available in the 70s and 80s are largely what's available today.
The media and brass always use the same tired, old line of cops being outgunned on the streets, even though they have weapons available that the rest of the non-military population does not have access to.

One good hit with a .357 HP is a lot better than a lot of misses or mediocre hits with a lesser round. (blaming the guns, mostly, not the cops. except for those who don't take an interest in shooting better than the minimum qualifying score)

As far as Glocks go, they've never fit my hand well, especially the 20 and 21. Shame, because I like .45. Not such a shame, because I don't like the way Glocks feel or shoot.

I think all unis should wear heavy duty, padded shoulder, suspenders.
Those damn duty belts with all that gear are a great way to get low back problems.
Low back problems will make you feel like an old man, before your time.

 

[old bear]

I have been retired almost 4 years now, and my duty belt is still hanging in the closet ready to go.

Bob, you may want to check your duty belt from time to time. If yours is like the one I had it started to shrink after I retired.

 

[Arik]

Ggvvvv

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Buford57]

When we transitioned to auto loaders everyone expected range scores to go up, they remained about the same. Some of the smaller women had a very difficult time with the blocky grip of the Glocks, but in my agency it was one size fits all.

My department authorized 9mm autos for patrol a few months after I pulled the pin. I was in Investigations Division and we had been authorized 9s for years. For my last qualification I shot with the last group of the day, consisting of several younger patrol officers. As we scored our targets one of the patrolmen, assuming I was shooting my 39-2, drew attention to my score (which was somewhere in the high 90s) and announced "once we get our 9mms we'll all be able to shoot scores like Buford".

I wish I had a picture of the look on his face when I pulled back my jacket and showed him the Colt Lawman .357 snub I'd pulled out of mothballs for my last few months.

Ergonomics helps improve accuracy. I've never seen any evidence of capacity doing so.

Does anyone know how many rounds the LAX officers needed to take down the shooter yesterday? More than 6 each?

 

[shouldazagged]

Perhaps I'm a dinosaur.

No more a dinosaur than I am, certainly. I no longer own any pistols, and only a couple of revolvers. But I'm not now and never have worked in law enforcement. The people I know who are often love revolvers but feel more confident with more rounds in the gun. Since they know what they are up against, I can appreciate that.

The part that troubles me is hearing that many police departments don't have sufficient funds or facilities to allow frequent live-fire training to refine their skills with their high-cap autoloaders. That's unfair to the officers and the people they protect.

 

[Muley Gil]

When I retired in 2001, I was carrying a S&W M625 3", in .45 ACP. I had four full moon clips in my old double speedloader pouch; 2 clips with the bullets point down and 2 on top point up. There was another officer also carrying a M625 in ACP and a few carrying .38 and .357 revolvers. My department had about 125 shown officers at the time.

Since then, I've been issued Beretta M9s and Glocks in my employment, with no other options.

 

[mkk41]

Unfortunately , most Police Chiefs seem to become more politician than LEO. Bet the Philly police chief Ramsey blamed all of society ills on guns , huh?

 

[rwsmith]

It seems military and law enforcement....

It seems a person's effectiveness in the field is measured by how many pounds of gear they carry.

And as far as the militarization goes, I believe there is a secret desire of every male in this country to be part of special forces.

 

[KLYDE]

Department went to the 9mm Sig in the early 90's. Per contract we purchase new guns every 10 years. After the nine we went to the .40. A couple of years ago that was replaced by the .45 ACP model 220. Both the 9 and .40 were high capacity. The single stack 220 has a mag capacity of 8. Many of the youngsters gripe about how we are "going backwards" and might as well be carrying revolvers. I don't know about them but I feel just as secure packing 8 rds of .45 ACP as I did with 12 rds of 9mm. Maybe more so.

 

[Jaymo]

The youngsters are also part of the generation that thinks a Glock has a good trigger pull.

 

[Donn]

Revolvers. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age.

 

[qrachel]

To Proctect and Serve . . .

To all you great guys for "protecting and serving," thank you from the bottom of my heart. You are part of what makes us a great people!

Take good care,

Rachel

P.S. I can definitely get the discussion between wheel guns and shovel loaders. Love my 357 686+ AND my Kobra Carry . . . I'd be comfortable with either, but think it would come down to weight and personal preference - top brass exercising their prerogatives not with standing. However, I tend to have the 686 handy at home; (point and squeeze) is very comforting to an old gal.

 

[44 special Dave]

The wheelgun is alive and well.....yep on this forum and other enthusiasts web sites.

Objectivity is not practiced here and it doesn't need to be.

I have owned only 4 semis amongst a LOT of revolvers and definitely prefer revolvers. These days its 45 acp/ar revolvers for me.

But that's me not being objective.

look at the current trends; revolvers are somewhat alive in the CCW market. Light easy to conceal, etc.

Shoot a more traditional revolver at the range and people look at you like "what's that?"

You look at the shooting world at large which includes everybody that has a handgun for whatever reason and the revolver is waning.

Most gun shops have 90% semis to 10% revolvers. Ok maybe 80/20 if you count the CCW type guns.

While I prefer revolvers I just laugh sometimes how "out of step" I am with the rest of the world.

Opinions are like........everyone has one.

Dave