The Wheelgun is Alive and Well

[VictorLouis]

I'm a LEO instructor and my students have the weirdest ideas on the "Need" for automatics.

#1 High capacity

Fact is that most lethal confrontations happen in 2.2 rounds, coincidentally the same number of children (at least was) in the American family

#2 Shoot faster.

The facts are that the revolver is clearly faster, Ed McGivern proved that L-O-N-G ago.

#3 You NEED the higher capacity

Well, I've never shot anyone but I don't think I'll die because I reload my times 8 one time during a firefight or 32 round IPSC or IDPA match

Just the opposite may be true. When a fellow officer is out of his 15 round mags I may be the only one left with ammo... I carry spare speedloaders I wouldn't call that under gunned in a SHF ( **** hits the fan) confrontation.

FACT is, the AVERAGE Jane/Joe CAN shoot an auto faster. But who cares?
The main benefit is a SHORTER-LIGHTER trigger pull than the average K-frame. All else being equal, such a trigger is easier to shoot, right?

I laught at the 2-3rds per gunfight 'stat' that is bandied about from time to time. Odds on, you'll never be IN a gunfight. The mere fact that you ARE means the odds have crapped on you. Extra rounds WITHOUT HAVING TO RELOAD, can be a lifesaver. Why? What's the next most difficult skill to master with a revoler behind the DA trigger?

 

[gnappi]

Here are the minimum requirements for qualification in Texas. 15 yards is the maximum distance required for a handgun. 15 yards for a shotgun.

(c) The minimum standards for the annual firearms proficiency course of fire shall be:
(1) handguns - a minimum of 50 rounds, including at least five rounds of ammunition, fired at ranges from point-blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload;

Wow, that seems rather lax?

I complain the the Florida standards for "G" licensees are too low with 144 rounds minimum fired, 48 for final score (of the 144 rds) from point blank to 25 yards with the longest 25 yd segment having 12 rds with a reload shot from cover and VERY liberal time constraints... 45 sec for the 25 yard segment.

I wish the standards countrywide were much harder to meet... not so much distance but proper use of cover, reloads, multiple targets, threat assessment, more rounds for score, and higher percentage of center of mass for score. I'd also change the scoring to zone 1 and 2. 1 being CNS, 2 being wound.

But that's another discussion huh?

 

[texmex]

When I went through the academy in 1974, we fired 6 rounds left barricade, 6 rounds right barricade and 6 rounds top barricade from 50 yards. Then we fired 12 rounds from 25 yards. Then 10 rounds from 15 yards . Then 10 rounds at 7 yards from the hip (FBI crouch). I think it was called the Tactical Revolver Course. There was no annual qualification required after that. Some of the larger agencies did have annual or semi annual qualification on their own but it wasn't required by the state. At least there is an annual minimum standard now. My agency usually shoots 4 or more times a year. Most of the guys can clean the course with patrol rifle and handgun. I'm the last one carrying a revolver. Two carry 1911's. One Sig and one FN. The rest carry Glocks.

 

[Kframerbluvr]

You must have heard of my department.

I guess I shouldn't complain of our people being cut from 200 rounds/year to 100. Between budget cuts and higher ammo prices, qualifications are pricier each year. When the brass entertain further cuts, some of us old heads remind them that a reasonable amount of training is far cheaper then disability benefits or, heaven forbid, a funeral and death benefits for dependents....

 

[Kframerbluvr]

Jaymo: You're not a dinosaur, you just stated an opinion. I was talking w/a young local cop the other day and he had so much stuff on his duty belt I predict early onset back problems. My duty gear consisted of my .38, 12 extra rounds, handcuffs and a batton. That was heavy enough.

Sounds like me in '81...minus the baton..worked court security. Now add a radio, more and heavier ammo, flashlight, glove pouch, ASP baton, cell phone, and at one time a second pair of cuffs..no wonder people have back issues sometimes....

 

[hardcase60]

Here are the minimum requirements for qualification in Texas. 15 yards is the maximum distance required for a handgun. 15 yards for a shotgun. Notice that if you raise the minimum passing score to 90, the patrol rifle maximum distance required is reduced to TEN YARDS!
Since my AR is full auto (safe, semi, 3 shot burst), the maximum required distance is again TEN YARDS. Good thing I have a Trijicon optic.

(c) The minimum standards for the annual firearms proficiency course of fire shall be:
(1) handguns - a minimum of 50 rounds, including at least five rounds of ammunition, fired at ranges from point-blank to at least 15 yards with at least 20 rounds at or beyond seven yards, including at least one timed reload;
(2) shotguns - a minimum of five rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 15 yards;
(3) precision rifles - a minimum of 20 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 100 yards; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 100 yards but not less than 50 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90;
(4) patrol rifles - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at a range of at least 50 yards, including at least one timed reload; however, an agency may, in its discretion, allow a range of less than 50 yards but not less than 10 yards if the minimum passing percentage is raised to 90;
(5) fully automatic weapons - a minimum of 30 rounds of ammunition fired at ranges from seven to at least 10 yards, including at least one timed reload, with at least 25 rounds fired in full automatic (short bursts of two or three rounds), and at least five rounds fired semi-automatic, if possible with the weapon.
(d) The minimum passing percentage shall be 70 for each firearm.

Gotta love TCLEOSE.

hardcase60

 

[hardcase60]

When I went through the academy in 1974, we fired 6 rounds left barricade, 6 rounds right barricade and 6 rounds top barricade from 50 yards. Then we fired 12 rounds from 25 yards. Then 10 rounds from 15 yards . Then 10 rounds at 7 yards from the hip (FBI crouch). There was no annual qualification required after that. Some of the larger agencies did have annual or semi annual qualification on their own but it wasn't required by the state. At least there is an annual minimum standard now. My agency usually shoots 4 or more times a year. Most of the guys can clean the course with patrol rifle and handgun. I'm the last one carrying a revolver. Two carry 1911's. One Sig and one FN. The rest carry Glocks.

If my fogged up memory serves me correctly, that was the same course we shot at the HCSO academy in '72.
No wonder I feel old............