Father said it was nothing special.

Gun was probably issued to UK forces during WWI BNP on the barrel and each chamber are indications of proof testing before releasing it from British stores to be sold on the civilian market.
Probably somewhere there will be a tiny "Not of English Make" stamp too.

I suspect it was reblued after sale to civilian market.

Nice historic old gun.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/Iggy25/1917.jpg
Would have looked much like this when first issued. This one was re-blued too.
 
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Added more pic's to my first post. I cannot find any caliber markings anywhere.

Only ammo in box are 22s.

The long colts seem to fit perfectly, but I don't know that means anything.

The grips have the same number in the 70s on both sides.
 
Cylinder looks to have been bored out, a common procedure for sale on the civilian market.. 45 Colt would make sense if that is the case.
They would not fit in a 45ACP or .455 Eley chamber.

A little hint. You can probably fire 45ACP with the use of moon clips, and 45 Colt rounds through it now, however, the old .455 gun was designed for a cartridge pushing a 465 bullet at only around 750 fps and under 15000 psi pressure.

Older 45 Colts are probably alright, but modern ones are too hot. 45 ACP pressures run about 19000 psi and that was considered a "proof load" for the .455 cartridge. Meaning testing at much over standard pressures to prove the gun was safe.

If you decide to fire the gun, be sure of what you are using. That is a good looking old warrior and it would be a shame to destroy it.
 
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The more recent pictures helped a lot. It is a Second Model hand ejector, originally chambered in .455, which was the standard British military revolver cartridge during the WWI period. The chambers have been modified in order to allow the use of either .45 Colt or .455 cartridges. Not likely you will find many of the latter, but they do exist. .45 ACP and .45 Auto Rim cartridges will not fit. As stated, only standard .45 Colt ammunition should be used, not the higher pressure loads now available. The so-called "Cowboy" .45 Colt loads would be ideal. Most date from the 1914-16 period.

There are three ways by which these old war horses were modified to accept .45 Colt ammunition, and fortunately, the method used for yours was the best.

I'd say there would be little problem in selling it in the $800-$1000 range, but I'd hang onto it were it mine.
 
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Very nice gun! I am very sorry to hear that your Dad passed. Please don't consider on selling his guns. Pass them on to your kids and keep them in the family. And if it has not been refinished then don't do it in the future. After all it took your Dad many years to get it to look as good as it does. By the way, welcome to the forum!
 
That's a nice old Smith & Wesson. The ".........Gillette" stamp is likely the company that imported and/or converted it to the .45 Colt cartridge. Any modern standard velocity 45 Colt ammo is safe to shoot in it. Also 455 Colt Mk I & II ammo (the American version of the British 455 Mk I & II) but that can only be found at collector prices.
 
With the additional photos I can now see that what I thought were "flaming bomb" ordnance markings are in fact BP in a circle with a superposed crown. That stands for Birmingham Proof, and is a British test marking. BV would stand for Birmingham View. I'm not sure what the exact difference is between Proof and View marks; I could guess, but hate to do so.

I wonder if the "Gillette" stamp is a poorly impressed "NOT ENGLISH MAKE." This stamp is found on many firearms imported to Britain and is composed of such small crowded letters that it can be hard to read.
 
David,
I thought possibly the same thing. But I can not find the 'S' in English and the Gillette appears to be a bolder overstrike. But yes it should have the NEM since it's in the USA, 'IF' it went thru official export channels.
 
Jim, if you take the supposed "G" in "gillette" and interpret as an S with a damaged upper curve, the rest kind of falls into place as consistent with NOT ENGLISH MAKE. Or does to my eyes, at any rate.
 
Sorry for your loss, but you'll think of your dad every time you pick up that gun.

I think you are a box of .45 Colt ammo and a half-hour of range time away from irreversibly turning in to a gun person. Nice gun!
 
Hondo44 said:
That's a nice old Smith & Wesson. The ".........Gillette" stamp is likely the company that imported and/or converted it to the .45 Colt cartridge. Any modern standard velocity 45 Colt ammo is safe to shoot in it. Also 455 Colt Mk I & II ammo (the American version of the British 455 Mk I & II) but that can only be found at collector prices.
Click to expand...

DCWilson said:
Jim, if you take the supposed "G" in "gillette" and interpret as an S with a damaged upper curve, the rest kind of falls into place as consistent with NOT ENGLISH MAKE. Or does to my eyes, at any rate.
Click to expand...

Jim & David-
Maybe you gentlemen already knew and did this, but if you go to his link, then scroll over to his pic with the words in question, you can go to the lower right corner and click on the magnifying glass to enlarge it. After that it says something like "return to original size" when you scroll over the magnification again. When I do that, and then click on it again, it blows it up REALLY large. It doesn't say Not English Make, nor Gillette that I can make out. It looks like the first word has an M followed by II and LN or LN(?), then some sort of weird markings, then the word that could be Gillette, but doesn't appear to be in that size picture. There are also both BP and BV marks visible on the frame and barrel.

I wish I could figure out how to post it as I am looking at it right now.
 
Having had a look at the link, even though it's upside down, I can see
"NOTENGLISHMAKE" pretty clearly in that weakly-applied stamp.

Larry
 
Oyeboteb said:
Site says images have been deleted or moved.

No images present.

Is there a new link I missed? Or..?
Click to expand...
Click onto the next image, click on show thumbnails and you will find all the photos.

Joe
 
lebomm said:
Having had a look at the link, even though it's upside down, I can see
"NOTENGLISHMAKE" pretty clearly in that weakly-applied stamp.

Larry
Click to expand...

If you do as I described in post 31, whatever the words are, it is quite easy to see that is NOT what is says. We copied it to out computer, then turned it right side up while magnified greatly (by doing as I posted above) to take a good long look.
 
The 2nd Model Hand Ejectors which have been 'converted' to .45 Colt, are typically over size in the Bores for now-a-days .45 Colt Ammunition.

Present day .45 Colt tends to be 452-ish at most, for Bullet diameter, and, the Barrel and Cylinder Bores of these Revolvers were made for .455-ish diameter.

Thus, the best satisfaction will be found in Loading one's own Cartridges, and, in using properly sized Lead Bullets of .454 or .455 diameter.

Undersized Bullets invite 'Leading' and or will not promote the best Accuracy.

Finding .454 or .455 Molds is not easy.

However, several Mail Order Internet concerns, make and sell high quality Lead Bullets, and even Wadcutters, in .454, and, this then makes things much easier than trying to find a Mold.

.45 colt is a very nice Cartridge for these, and, a joy to shoot.
 
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Thank you all for your informative posts!!!

A local dealer that "Everyone Trusts" thought it was worth 3k+. He just got it wrong the first time. Accidents happen, but I'll still send all my business to him. I explained to him what I learned here on the smith-wessonforum.com. He had an "Oh yea.." moment.

Armed with all of YOUR combined knowledge, I lost 2+k that was never existent. No biggie. Thank you! I know what I have now!! Knowing what my father's revolver was, that was the goal.

Not being a gun person at this time, I would rather have a gun that I know everything about, know exact caliber, and only need modern calibers.

After stating that, knowing my father's mind, I think he will be looking over my shoulder as I sell it. I was not a gun person, but I'm becoming interested in owning, and using guns. My father would be more happy with a gun I would practice with and use, than one I would let sit forever in a safe I just ordered. (I purchased a fire/water gun safe today).

I'm thinking the S&W Shield. Dad's old gun will not cover it all, but I'm going to buy a pair. I'm going to buy one for myself, and buy one for my wife. She seems interested, so it will be a nice hobby for us to share.

Again, thanks to you forum members for helping me out. I'll find a good home for the old workhorse.


Signed,

[email protected]

aka Josh Johnson, Indiana.
 
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I understand you wanting something "more modern" that you are more comfortable with, and will use, but I (and probably most other members here) would ask you to reconsider before selling.

I can tell you this for certain- if you become a full on gun guy, you will sorely regret ever selling your fathers gun one day. Nothing coming from the factory (any factory for that matter) today will ever come close to the works of art that came out back then. Those old guns only go up in value. They are a connection to our past, to the greatest generation, are an important part of American history, and those like your dad's are part of the reason for our very freedom.

Good luck to you and your wife, and whatever you do.:)
 
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