Need iron sight help.

[Rland1972]

First day at the range with the m&p15. I have never shot any type of gun with these type of sights. I did bad. Really bad. I just couldn't get the hang of these sights. I can shoot really good groups with my pistols at 25 yards.

I just can't seem to get the concept of lining up the front sight with a circle sight at the back. I have watched countless videos and I have read pretty much every thread in this ar15 section of this forum.

Why can't they have simple sights like on pistols? What on earth am I doing wrong? At the way I shot today, if there was ever zombies after me my m&p15 would pe the last gun I grab.

How does every one else line the front post in the center of a circle and get good groups?

 

[cyphertext]

The peep sight is very simple. You need to get your eye very close to the sight. To get close enough and insure the same cheek weld, your nose should almost be touching the charging handle. The rear sight should be blurry and you should focus on the front sight only. Your brain should automatically center the post in the circle. You really shouldn't be doing much at all there.

 

[Vinney47]

First off, just breathe. Don't be discouraged on the first try of a completely new sighting system. Rifles handle and shoot much differently than pistols, add in a new type of iron sights and you're bound to need some practice.

But that's just it. All you need is practice. How far out are your targets? At this point, you should be no more than 25 yards max, don't be shy at starting at 15 yards even. You can increase the distance as your skill improves.

Another way to go to break the ice with the new rifle would be to approach it from a plinking style. Just go out and shoot milk jugs and pop cans till you are a little more comfortable with the way it shoots and how the sights work. Then sit down at a bench and really zero the sights and work on your groups.

For what it's worth, I think you have the right idea. Trying to learn the gun from the basics. Instead of throwing a ton of accessories on it from the get go and still not really knowing the gun.

Good luck and happy shooting!

 

[MichiganScott]

Use the smaller aperture. The front sight will be less blurry.

Concentrate on the front sight, not the target. A six o'clock hold on a round bull works better because it's easier to keep the same sight picture from shot to shot. This is usually referred to a"pumpkin on a post" hold.

 

[AR-Getsome]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aUc4ufirxmc
Check this video out. It helped out a few friends of mine.

 

[spad124]

The Marine Corps training video on marksmanship is posted on the Milsurps website under the M16/AR15 sub forum. The video explains sight picture.

Also, you can "check" your sight picture by aligning the front sight protector ears on the edge of the peep's circle. That wil help you get used to centering the front sight in the peep.

 

[harrym]

The peep sight doesn't work well for me either. I can't find the target as fast as I can with a semi-buckhorn sight. That automatic eye centering I read about just doesn't work for me. I line up the red dot with the top of the front sight to get passable results.

 

[vonn]

As posted earlier stay at 25 yards and don't change your sights until you put together good groups.Once you are shooting good groups you should be able to adjust your sights where they hit where you aim. Check out military training videos and manuals for good info.

 

[apollolanding]

At 25 yards, load up on cheap, steel cased ammo and plink away at first. At that distance, no need to burn through anything approaching $.50/round. With the Magpul BUIS system on my 15T at 50 yards I had to "unlearn" what my mind was telling me a sight picture should look like, just put the "pumpkin on the post" and point 'n shoot (like a red dot). They're not NM sights so I had to dial down my accuracy expectations a bit, remembering the whole point of being "backup sights" is they're there if your optic fails. After a 10 round mag getting my windage squared away, it took another 10 to figure out the elevation. After that I was putting everything in the black and managed a few X Rings. You'll get it! I'm glad I took the time to figure it out even if 99% of my shooting will be with a scope or reflex optic.

 

[gunny4053]

A lot of good advice has been given already, so not much I can add. Practice is the key. Try this, with an unloaded weapon, adjust your stock so when you bring the rifle up, your nose just touches the charging handle. Once you have this set, place the rifle butt to your shoulder, muzzle down at about a 45 degree angle. Now, rotate the rifle up to the firing position and stop when your nose touches. Your eye should be lined up with the rear peep and the front sight pin should appear in the aperture. Don't worry about the front pin being centered, for now just practice bringing the rifle to bear and that pin appearing in the aperture. Once you can consistently do that, practice doing it while focusing on centering the top of the front sight pin. After a while it will be second nature.

Practice this at the house, then when you go shooting next, practice it a few times before you load and fire. Set your target at 25 yards and focus on putting rounds on paper. When you've got that down, work on groups. It won't take long before you've got it down pat.

Good Luck and good shooting.

 

[klausinak]

I would say you're probably over-thinking the sight, something I've been guilty of in the past. I still have issues with "ghost rings", a.k.a. really big apertures; as much as I know my brain will automatically center the front sight, I still fight it. Lot's of good advice already posted, the only way to get good @ it is to go out & shoot. I tend to do a lot better with the HK style front sight, then it's just align two circles, put the post @ the base of the target & squeeze.

 

[Rland1972]

You all have helped me with your advice and would like to thank you all. But I have to say AR-Getsome's video helped me so much. As kllausinak said I was over thinking.

After watching that video several times I took out my m&p left it with the little opening, moved my head back and forth till the sight worked for me and that's when it all fell into place.

Now to get some more range time. But for now all my wife's pictures on the walls are in my sights.....lol

 

[rojodiablo]

You all have helped me with your advice and would like to thank you all. But I have to say AR-Getsome's video helped me so much. As kllausinak said I was over thinking.

After watching that video several times I took out my m&p left it with the little opening, moved my head back and forth till the sight worked for me and that's when it all fell into place.

Now to get some more range time. But for now all my wife's pictures on the walls are in my sights.....lol

In general, remember that with the flat top front sight post, your placement is the flat top underlines your intended target when you are set up correctly. You see the center of the target, the line is underscoring it, like creating a little horizon and your target is the island. Center the target in the middle of the horizon, and let fly.

Also, the small aperture is designed for a specific purpose. With the optic set at 25yds. and using the larger aperture, the smaller unit puts you dead on at 200yds with no adjustments to your rifle or optic. When you get comfortable with it, think about looking thru a telescope or binos at a desert island on the sea. That's the basic view you should see, and the 'window' you look thru should be the same basic radius in your sight picture.

 

[Vinney47]

Also, the small aperture is designed for a specific purpose. With the optic set at 25yds. and using the larger aperture, the smaller unit puts you dead on at 200yds with no adjustments to your rifle or optic.

I don't mean to nit pick, but I think it's 50 yards and 200 yards. Not a huge difference, but worth mentioning.

Glad things are starting to fall in place for the OP. Welcome to the world of black rifles. Your idea of fun will never be the same, and your wallet will never be full again. Enjoy!

 

[Rastoff]

Also, you can "check" your sight picture by aligning the front sight protector ears on the edge of the peep's circle.

This is not recommended. The reason is, those "ears" are there simply to protect the front sight post. They are not precision made and could be off center.

I don't mean to nit pick, but I think it's 50 yards and 200 yards.

Be nit picky because aiming is all about precision and you're almost right, but not quite.

The large aperture is for ~200 yards and less. The small aperture is for 300 and beyond. If you measure the two apertures you'll find that the center of the small aperture is higher than the large aperture. This is to compensate for bullet drop at the longer distance. So, the large aperture should be used most of the time. 50 yards and 200 yards are approximately the same for the .223 round.

Here is a picture of how aligning the sights can affect accuracy or shot placement:

...all my wife's pictures on the walls are in my sights.....lol

Please don't use fixed things in the house for dry practice. Always put up a temporary target like a small sticky note. I will go into the "dry practice rules" later if you like, but just wanted to note that this can be problematic or dangerous.


One more thing, have you considered a different type of sighting system like a red dot or scope?

 

[rjbFL]

Rastoff - please share your dry practice rules

 

[rojodiablo]

I don't mean to nit pick, but I think it's 50 yards and 200 yards. Not a huge difference, but worth mentioning.

Glad things are starting to fall in place for the OP. Welcome to the world of black rifles. Your idea of fun will never be the same, and your wallet will never be full again. Enjoy!

Correct, and there is enough variance with the dual aperture that at 25/200, 50/300 also tend to be pretty spot on.

When I learned it..... 1988/89, the unit used was 50/300.

 

[spad124]

This is not recommended. The reason is, those "ears" are there simply to protect the front sight post. They are not precision made and could be off center.

Good point Rastoff. I retract my suggestion.

 

[Rastoff]

Rastoff - please share your dry practice rules

These rules apply to any firearm.

Some get bent out of shape when I list these rules. So, remember what you paid for them.

We've all heard the phrase, "More people are shot by unloaded guns..." Even though that is physically impossible, most of us understand the meaning. Well, it's real. This short list will help keep you and your family safe while practicing without ammo at home.

• Unload your gun. This may sound obvious, but if it were, there would never be a negligent discharge (ND) at home.
• -
• Designate a dry practice area. If possible, pick a place that has a back stop with some ability to stop a bullet. A brick or cinder block wall is good or a wall facing a dirt hill is good too. It doesn't matter where this area is, but NEVER take ammo into this area. ALWAYS unload the gun and magazines before entering this area. Treat this area as sacred. If you have your carry gun strapped to you, don't go in this area.
• -
• Put up a target. It doesn't matter what it is, just be sure to put it up. A 3" sticky note works great. DO NOT use a permanent fixture. I can't emphasize this enough. I actually have a friend who was practicing his trigger control by pointing at guys on the TV. Yep, you guessed it, he got a brand new plasma TV, just a little sooner than he wanted. More on this later.
• -
• Say out loud, "I'm starting dry practice." Sound dumb? It's not. This alerts anyone that might hear you to what you're doing. It is also a stronger clue to yourself of what you're doing. It helps trigger that inner sense of heightened safety. Do a chamber check and magazine check at the beginning. (If you don't know what that is, just ask. I'll be more than happy to explain it further.)
• -
• Set a time limit. The average attention span to achieve quality learning is about 20 minutes. You can practice for hours if you like, just break it up into sessions not longer than 20 minutes.
• -
• Do your practice. Trigger control, follow through, malfunction drills, whatever you feel like doing. Earlier in the thread I talked about a "wall drill". This is a good time to do that. You have your temporary target up and can use it because you're in your designated area where you're sure there's no ammo, right?
• -
• When you're done with your practice session, say out loud, "I'm done with dry practice", take down your target and leave the dry practice area. Again, this emphasizes the actions you're taking and ingrains a better level of safety. Taking the target down reduces the chances you'll say, "Just one more time" when you have a loaded gun.

Under no circumstances say, "One more time." This will eventually lead to disaster. I know of one fellow who was doing dry practice and using a picture on his wall for a target (here's another reason that's bad). He finished and loaded up his carry gun to head off to work. As he was headed out the door, he saw that picture and thought, "Just one more time." This time he had a loaded gun and put a hole in the picture and the wall. Thankfully he had a solid wall behind it and the round didn't continue to his neighbor's house.



I've had a lot of guys get upset when I mention these simple rules. Most of the rules should seem so obvious that it leaves you wondering why I would say them at all. Still, some think I'm questioning their manhood or something because I suggest not using the TV for a target. If you want to use your TV, fine. Just don't come crying here when you have to buy another.

Complacency is the biggest cause of NDs in the gun world. By following these rules the chance of a ND is lowered a great deal.

I have broken many of these rules myself. Fortunately, I haven't had a ND. Alas, I'm human and as such, fallible. By following these rules, it makes us all safer.

Just to hammer safety home:

1. Always handle every gun as though it were loaded.
2. Always be aware of your muzzle and only point it at something you're willing to destroy.
3. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you are pointed at your intended target.
4. Always know your target and what is in line with it. It's not enough to know the target and what's beyond. You have to be sure no one can walk in between you and the target.

 

[bhayles]

If you measure the two apertures you'll find that the center of the small aperture is higher than the large aperture.

Not necessarily...its manufacturer dependent. I called Magpul today about this speific question and was told that on their MBUS (that comes with the Sport) the centers of both circles are on the same plane.