CAN I USE A TRICKED OUT GLOCK 34 FOR HOME DEFENSE?

[WR Moore]

I'll wager that you can't find a justified deadly force statute in any jurisdiction in the country, that mentions anything about what is an acceptable weapon.

How would a good tort lawyer have a ball with that? How would a trigger have any effect on justification?

I didn't say anything about staute law. In some jurisdictions, the issuing authority has their own regulations about what they deem an acceptable trigger pull. ie, they want to see factory spec for safety purposes. This doesn't apply to most of us, but the message is what you would call a hint.

I also didn't say anything about justification. Nor will the attorney in question. Any attorney going into court is going to research the plaintiff extensively. ANYTHING they can use to paint the person in a negative light will be introduced in court.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

I'll bite...

The real problems tend to come after the police and judicial situation has been sorted out.

Assuming that mine field has been navigated - "A clean shoot is a clean shoot" is a nice trite saying, but it's far from always the case. Things get messed up, evidence can be missed, the wrong words can be said in all innocence (It's why we have the 5th!) and DA's can be of the "throw it all against the wall and see what sticks" variety. A prosecuting lawyer will try and find any way he can to make you look like someone that wanted to shoot someone... including digging out social media posts. That's something people forget.


So, assuming the minefield is navigated... what to expect next?

Well, expect to be sued by a survivor... or the family of the expired for wrongful death. If, and it happens often, this does happen... expect years of expensive court action. Peoples lives have been ruined by the tens of thousands if not the hundreds of thousands this has cost.

Their attorney will try and prove you were negligent. How? Any way they damn well can... and if it's a light trigger on a gun come to light, then expect to be accused of not actually meaning to shoot the person and in the heat of the moment you accidentally pulled the trigger. Negligence is what they are looking for.

Please, go take a good self defense course that includes a section taken by an attorney or law enforcement officer. The NRA Personal Protection Inside The Home is a great start.

Knowing your local as well as state laws are important. You do not have as much latitude as someone has suggested in this thread. The margin is quite limited. You need to have seen that the person you use lethal force upon has ability, opportunity and intent to cause you harm.

Remember, you are on a murder charge if you shoot someone, and self defense is your defense. It's not really something to be taken lightly.

 

[shooter5112]

So, assuming the minefield is navigated... what to expect next?

Well, expect to be sued by a survivor... or the family of the expired for wrongful death. If, and it happens often, this does happen... expect years of expensive court action. Peoples lives have been ruined by the tens of thousands if not the hundreds of thousands this has cost.

Their attorney will try and prove you were negligent. How? Any way they damn well can... and if it's a light trigger on a gun come to light, then expect to be accused of not actually meaning to shoot the person and in the heat of the moment you accidentally pulled the trigger. Negligence is what they are looking for.

That statement implies that you know of those kind of cases.

How many of those "happens often" wrongful death suits can you find, that were filed against self-defense shooters that were not criminally charged? While you are searching, find just one that was accused of "accidentally" shooting his attacker because of a light trigger.

Knowing your local as well as state laws are important. You do not have as much latitude as someone has suggested in this thread. The margin is quite limited. You need to have seen that the person you use lethal force upon has ability, opportunity and intent to cause you harm.

Exactly. And it matters not, what kind of tool is used to inflict that lethal force.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

How many of those "happens often" wrongful death suits can you find, that were filed against self-defense shooters that were not criminally charged? While you are searching, find just one that was accused of "accidentally" shooting his attacker because of a light trigger.

It doesn't really make the news because it's not exciting and takes a long time after the initial excitement. I do personally know one person that found himself in that position. Basically, years later he is out for all his attorney fees and it pretty much ruined his life.

I will try and find a post on the Calguns forum from a guy who went into detail of what happened after he was involved in a self defense shooting. His life is pretty much in ruins.


Massad Ayoob on light triggers:

022 Light Triggers - ProArms Podcast - CastRoller



For a personal story of incarceration after a justified shooting:

087 The Spencer Newcomer Case | The ProArms Podcast

 

[gm272gs]

...For a personal story of incarceration after a justified shooting:

087 The Spencer Newcomer Case | The ProArms Podcast

After reading about that case, I found that the facts stunk to high heaven. Spencer Newcomer may have been acquitted, but I don't find those facts leading to a justified shooting, by any stretch of the imagination. He shot an unarmed guy three times in the chest and once in the back.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Great...so I'm supposed to worry about my life being ruined after I am forced to shoot some upstanding member of the community/good boy/poor disadvantaged person for trying to kill me? Sounds like a goodly dose of harrumph from the fear mongers that need to keep themselves in business as "experts." If I don't make it till morning none of the other stuff makes a d*** bit of difference. Light triggers, lasers, night sights, hollow points, gianormous white lights and stupid tacticool vests...use all of it to make it to sunrise where hopefully someone who's reasonable will sort it out.

 

[mc5aw]

I recently purchased a M&P Compact 9mm for CCW but for home defense I was hoping to use my Gen4 Glock 34. I have a match grade Bar Sto Barrel, a Pyramid Ultimate Trigger 3.14 lb trigger pull, a Heavy Duty Stainless Dual Guide rod, for just home defense is this legally OK?

I heard for CCW that is a huge no no but for home defense I don't think there is anything wrong with a match handgun regardless. Do any of you agree or disagree? Again I know CCW this is a huge no no but for home defense I feel we should be allowed to use anything. Or do I need to buy maybe another Glock 34 and leave that stock?

It doesn't matter what kind of nifty accessories you have on your handgun if you can't hit the target. For HD, keep whatever you are best trained with, and most comfortable shooting.

 

[WR Moore]

Guys, I live in a state that's provided Mas with a couple of examples of excessive prosecutorial zeal. The one gent got tied up in the legal system for over 3 years with 6 figure legal bills before the zelot decided he didn't have a leg to stand on and dropped charges. His issue was the use a legally posessed full auto weapon to drop an attacker charging him with a knife-after a lengthy auto chase.

As for clean shoot=no problems, two words: George Zimmerman.

Self defense has always been a three round bout: round one against the felonious aggessor, round two against the prosecutors, and the final round in the civil suit. Mas published a case a couple of years ago where a rancher shot a robber pointing a gun at him and was cleared by LLEA and the prosecutor. Cost him $60,000 to win the civil suit. No, it didn't involve weight of trigger pull.

Note that a couple of entries back I wrote that if you have a lighter than stock trigger, be able to defend it. I do, on the basis of over 30 years experience, consider 3 and a whisker pounds to be unacceptably light for a firearm to be used for defensive purposes. Especially if there are other choices. Your encounter, do with it what you will.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

Great...so I'm supposed to worry about my life being ruined after I am forced to shoot some upstanding member of the community/good boy/poor disadvantaged person for trying to kill me? Sounds like a goodly dose of harrumph from the fear mongers that need to keep themselves in business as "experts." If I don't make it till morning none of the other stuff makes a d*** bit of difference. Light triggers, lasers, night sights, hollow points, gianormous white lights and stupid tacticool vests...use all of it to make it to sunrise where hopefully someone who's reasonable will sort it out.

The opposite of the dose of harrumph from the fear mongers is burying your head in the sand and hoping someone reasonable will sort it out.

Somewhere in between is the reality. The largest part of self defense is preparation. As WR Moore said, it's a three round bout. Only preparing for bout one is a good start that most don't make... but it is still only a good start.

 

[shooter5112]

It doesn't really make the news because it's not exciting and takes a long time after the initial excitement. I do personally know one person that found himself in that position. Basically, years later he is out for all his attorney fees and it pretty much ruined his life.

I will try and find a post on the Calguns forum from a guy who went into detail of what happened after he was involved in a self defense shooting. His life is pretty much in ruins.


Massad Ayoob on light triggers:

022 Light Triggers - ProArms Podcast - CastRoller

I listened through Magliato and turned it off. It should surprise no one that when a police officer unjustly kills someone, he's liable to face charges. I certainly agree that when one has his finger on the trigger, a light trigger makes an accidental discharge more likely.

As to Magliato, Ayoob is either lying or knows not what he's talking about. The court did not say "there is no such thing as a justified accident". That was a defense argument, and this is how the court replied:
"Defendant's contention that the law of justification has no bearing on his conduct, solely because the discharge of his pistol was accidental, requires little comment. It is settled that the defense of justification applies fully to a defendant's risk-creating conduct, even though it had unintended consequences (see, People v McManus, 67 NY2d 541; *29 People v Huntley, 59 NY2d 868)".

The appeals court decision outlines the real facts. Read it here" The Gun Zone -- State of New York v. Frank Magliato

For a personal story of incarceration after a justified shooting:

087 The Spencer Newcomer Case | The ProArms Podcast

If you get your information from an unbiased court reporter, you can understand just why he suffered so.
YDR 911 | Spencer Newcomer acquitted of murder/manslaughter

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

I listened through Magliato and turned it off. It should surprise no one that when a police officer unjustly kills someone, he's liable to face charges. I certainly agree that when one has his finger on the trigger, a light trigger makes an accidental discharge more likely.

As to Magliato, Ayoob is either lying or knows not what he's talking about. The court did not say "there is no such thing as a justified accident". That was a defense argument, and this is how the court replied:
"Defendant's contention that the law of justification has no bearing on his conduct, solely because the discharge of his pistol was accidental, requires little comment. It is settled that the defense of justification applies fully to a defendant's risk-creating conduct, even though it had unintended consequences (see, People v McManus, 67 NY2d 541; *29 People v Huntley, 59 NY2d 868)".

The appeals court decision outlines the real facts. Read it here" The Gun Zone -- State of New York v. Frank Magliato

Did he say it was a justified accident? Been a while since I listened, but I don't recall him defending Magliato, rather using it as an example of a light trigger having the potential for disastrous consequence. Maybe I'll listen again when I get some time.


If you get your information from an unbiased court reporter, you can understand just why he suffered so.
YDR 911 | Spencer Newcomer acquitted of murder/manslaughter

I couldn't get anything from the link in the article. It wanted to open an application I don't have.

I'm interested to read, but I was under the impression acquitted meant to free from a criminal charge by a verdict of not guilty. Did the jury get it wrong?

 

[deadear dan]

You would be making it easy for the felon's lawyer. You have a jury who will see things like a lightened trigger pull as a reckless modification. I took Massad Ayoob's advice and changed my Glock trigger from 5.5lbs to 8 lbs with the New York 1 trigger spring. He has spent his time in court defending justifiable shootings and suggests this modification to make you look like a responsible gun owner who is going the extra mile to make a safe firearm. With the political climate out there you will need all the help you can get in court. All of his carry Glocks are so modified. To take the slide off with a Glock with a NY1 trigger be sure to depress the trigger slightly while pushing the slide forward off the gun.

 

[Waywatcher]

I love Glocks with the NY-1 trigger spring that deadear dan described directly above this post.

In addition to a safer trigger, it also completely hides the mushy/spongy trigger Glocks are otherwise known for, and turns the trigger into a DA revolver feel--smooth, even, consistent, long.

It is a factory replacement part, and is actually more durable than the spring it replaces.

Both my Glocks have NY-1 springs.