I have a M&P 40c it came with no safety. As a longtime 1911 user I'm accustomed to a thumb safety and natural swipe with my thumb on the draw. So I bought the needed parts and installed the safety. Wow what a piece of junk! It's in about the worst location, can't get a thumb over grip so you risk the chance of safety engaging while firing. Almost zero positive feel when flipped on or off. Not to mention it adds damn near 3/8" if not more to totally width. The design doesn't block sear only trigger so it's only a safety in the sense that it blocks the trigger. Not like the safeties in a 1911 where the sear and trigger are blocked. It just looks like an after thought honestly. Long story short the frame plugs went back in.
M&P safety
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dullh
Member
I have the thumb safety on my 45c, and I don't mind it all at all. It's not as tactile as the thumb safety on my Kimber CDP but it works.
One thing to remember...it's not a 1911...
One thing to remember...it's not a 1911...
wagostini
Member
Where did you get the parts for the safety, I can't seem to find any information on it and no gunsmith in this area wants to do it. SandW said no as well.
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Mountain Walker
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BINGO! The OP states his case well!! I have thought of contacting S&W and expressing my disgust with their silly M&P safety. Ruger on the other hand, has developed a superb thumb safety for their SR striker guns. It is low profile, easy to manipulate and yet almost impossible to wipe on or off. I think the safety nob itself was inspired by the thumb safety on the CZ-82. Recent trends in 1911 world is for manufactures to offer gas pedal thumb safeties that wipe on or off much too easily. They forget the purpose of a safety. Even though some of these 1911 thumb safeties are way too floppy, the M&P takes the cake as one of the most poorly designed and manufactured thumb safety on the planet.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I don't have any trouble getting my thumb on top of the safety while shooting. Even so, the OP is correct, the thumb safety adds little value to the M&P.
The only value the thumb safety adds is blocking the trigger in the event something inadvertently got in the trigger guard. I will not add it to my M&Ps that don't have it, but neither will I remove it from the one that does. It's really a non issue.
The only value the thumb safety adds is blocking the trigger in the event something inadvertently got in the trigger guard. I will not add it to my M&Ps that don't have it, but neither will I remove it from the one that does. It's really a non issue.
Speed shooters specialties is where I got mine, but I'd advise against it unless you really have your mind set on it. I prefer safeties on my guns personally, but this one was worthless.
You must have a very high grip, everytime I tried a thumb over I brushed the slide causing FTFs. I honestly don't know why they even put it on. Maybe if it actually locked the sear but as it stands there is zero point....as the stock trigger take-up is so long plus the hinged trigger I just don't see a point to it.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Yes, I do have a high grip. It helps to reduce muzzle rise/flip. It's no different than using a thumb over with my 1911. I don't think my thumb is touching the slide. At least I don't feel it and I have no malfunctions.
It is in response to customer requests. The Glock cannot be had with a thumb safety. There are many who won't buy a Glock for that one simple thing. Some people don't feel right without a thumb safety. So, S&W accommodated them.
I honestly believe that S&W knows the thumb safety adds very little to the equation. They just understand marketing.
I believe it's ALSO in response to the 'Nanny' States, who require it to sell in their State. And... IIRC, I've heard that Some LE Agencies also require it on their 'Check List' for bids.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I'm sure there are some police agencies that want it, but name one state that requires it. Are there any? I know it's not a requirement here in California. Actually, if it were, no Glock could be sold there.
Going to try a shaved down safety to see if it works any better. So far I'm pretty happy with it as it kinda has a mil-spec 1911 shape to it. Although it's positioned far more forward than a 1911 safety. It feels far more positive now. Before because of the huge gas pedal design my thumb would bump the safety when firing. I shaved both sides down the same but couldn't figure out how to attach more than one pic at a time.
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Mountain out of a mole hill, really.
S&W only offered the original thumb safety on their M&P 45 because it was developed to meet a requirement for the bid specs of the '05 military JCP program (suspended and then canceled).
We were told early on that they never really intended to offer it as a standard feature in the rest of the model line, and only made it available in the M&P 45 because, well, it was developed and easy to sell ... especially since they already had the parts and the .45 frame mold. They expected the standard M&P 45 without the thumb safety would be in more demand by regular consumers and LE buyers.
I was also told that the sudden commercial consumer demand for a thumb safety option on other M&P's was really unexpected and caught the company by surprise, but they eventually made some changes and made it possible to incorporate in the rest of the line. (The standard sear housing blocks were eventually changed from the ILS or No-ILS blocks over to the thumb safety blocks, and the frames received cuts to accommodate the lever assembly, but the guns could still come without the feature, if desired.)
Yes, the lever assembly isn't located in the same spot. Why would it be? It's not a 1911 and the mechanism is different. That's more a buyer's 1911-centric thinking at work, perhaps.
Hey, even 1911 aficionados can tend to forget that the standard Gov type safety lock (the real name for a thumb safety on a Colt Model O pistol, as I learned in my Colt pistol armorer class
) isn't one that allows the owner/user to comfortably rest a thumb upon while shooting. That came about with the advent of the "combat/extended" safety lever and the Modern Technique. The original levers are small, narrow and all-too-easy-to-miss-swiping (up or down) if you're spoiled by the wide/extended safeties made popular over the years.
Yes, the manipulation of the S&W thumb safety doesn't feel like a Colt/1911-style lever in resistance. That observation has some merit.
While some calls to contacts at the company wouldn't help with changing that, some careful study of the involved parts and operation (I'm a M&P pistols armorer, as well, and have access to spare parts) gave me an idea of how some subtle changes could increase the resistance for moving the levers on & off-safe. (FWIW, I also discovered that just 1 too many file strokes on the wrong spot, or even on the right spot, could render the lever assembly ruined ... meaning the mechanical resistance increased for the lever to where it couldn't be moved from either position.
Good thing about the access to spare parts.)
I judiciously made the modification for a couple of other instructors, including a current rangemaster who approved, on his responsibility, having the mods done (which is a big deal when it involves weapons authorized for off-duty use). I was able to essentially duplicate the resistance desired by myself and other 1911 owners & users.
S&W could probably have their vendor tighten up the angles on those spots of the levers, or maybe even change the plunger (I left that alone). Maybe ... but the inherently loose tolerances might not make it either easy or consistent. I had to do each lever by hand, checking the results in each gun, using a couple of needle files and changing the profile of a plastic lever pad (to gain file angle access at one of the spots).
Such hand labor & fitting would add to the cost and production time involved, and they can't make them fast enough as it is.
No, I won't be posting how-to instructions. If you want a 1911 feel with a thumb safety, buy a 1911.
BTW, I like how the design blocks the trigger bar instead of a sear, since it allows for manually running the slide and clearing the chamber with the safety in the ON position.
Totally different manual of arms/operation than a 1911, but sometimes a bit of added safety is NOT a bad thing. (Like making people look inside chambers in order to field-strip a pistol, especially when you're producing/providing duty weapons for many folks who aren't necessarily "gun enthusiasts" and who are easily distracted at an inopportune moment while performing simple tasks.)
S&W only offered the original thumb safety on their M&P 45 because it was developed to meet a requirement for the bid specs of the '05 military JCP program (suspended and then canceled).
We were told early on that they never really intended to offer it as a standard feature in the rest of the model line, and only made it available in the M&P 45 because, well, it was developed and easy to sell ... especially since they already had the parts and the .45 frame mold. They expected the standard M&P 45 without the thumb safety would be in more demand by regular consumers and LE buyers.
I was also told that the sudden commercial consumer demand for a thumb safety option on other M&P's was really unexpected and caught the company by surprise, but they eventually made some changes and made it possible to incorporate in the rest of the line. (The standard sear housing blocks were eventually changed from the ILS or No-ILS blocks over to the thumb safety blocks, and the frames received cuts to accommodate the lever assembly, but the guns could still come without the feature, if desired.)
Yes, the lever assembly isn't located in the same spot. Why would it be? It's not a 1911 and the mechanism is different. That's more a buyer's 1911-centric thinking at work, perhaps.
Hey, even 1911 aficionados can tend to forget that the standard Gov type safety lock (the real name for a thumb safety on a Colt Model O pistol, as I learned in my Colt pistol armorer class
) isn't one that allows the owner/user to comfortably rest a thumb upon while shooting. That came about with the advent of the "combat/extended" safety lever and the Modern Technique. The original levers are small, narrow and all-too-easy-to-miss-swiping (up or down) if you're spoiled by the wide/extended safeties made popular over the years.Yes, the manipulation of the S&W thumb safety doesn't feel like a Colt/1911-style lever in resistance. That observation has some merit.
While some calls to contacts at the company wouldn't help with changing that, some careful study of the involved parts and operation (I'm a M&P pistols armorer, as well, and have access to spare parts) gave me an idea of how some subtle changes could increase the resistance for moving the levers on & off-safe. (FWIW, I also discovered that just 1 too many file strokes on the wrong spot, or even on the right spot, could render the lever assembly ruined ... meaning the mechanical resistance increased for the lever to where it couldn't be moved from either position.
Good thing about the access to spare parts.)I judiciously made the modification for a couple of other instructors, including a current rangemaster who approved, on his responsibility, having the mods done (which is a big deal when it involves weapons authorized for off-duty use). I was able to essentially duplicate the resistance desired by myself and other 1911 owners & users.
S&W could probably have their vendor tighten up the angles on those spots of the levers, or maybe even change the plunger (I left that alone). Maybe ... but the inherently loose tolerances might not make it either easy or consistent. I had to do each lever by hand, checking the results in each gun, using a couple of needle files and changing the profile of a plastic lever pad (to gain file angle access at one of the spots).
Such hand labor & fitting would add to the cost and production time involved, and they can't make them fast enough as it is.
No, I won't be posting how-to instructions. If you want a 1911 feel with a thumb safety, buy a 1911.
BTW, I like how the design blocks the trigger bar instead of a sear, since it allows for manually running the slide and clearing the chamber with the safety in the ON position.
Totally different manual of arms/operation than a 1911, but sometimes a bit of added safety is NOT a bad thing. (Like making people look inside chambers in order to field-strip a pistol, especially when you're producing/providing duty weapons for many folks who aren't necessarily "gun enthusiasts" and who are easily distracted at an inopportune moment while performing simple tasks.)
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I'm pretty sure most will agree the safety is horrible I'm not comparing it to a 1911 only stating that I desire a external safety because of long time experience with 1911s. The only way to tighten up the safety would be to take a file to detent ball and safety lever then install a stronger spring not that hard but that should have been done by factory.
Shooting a 1911 with thumb over grip has nothing to do with comfort. All my 1911s have mil-spec safety levers. What it does do is insure you have a proper grip up high along with securing the safety in the off position in the event you bump it while firing.
There is no excuse for this floppy safety, there are countless other guns out there at same price point or lower with a firmer feeling safety.
I didn't research it before I bought the parts so I had no idea how it worked or felt. I'm just letting guys know what to expect because I was kinda let down as the parts were always out of stock. So after such a long wait I was more than disappointed.
Again so far after shaving the safety down and taking a file to the detent ball and lever it's far more firmer than before. With stock safety I'd find the safety actually disengaged while holstered throughout the day some how.
Shooting a 1911 with thumb over grip has nothing to do with comfort. All my 1911s have mil-spec safety levers. What it does do is insure you have a proper grip up high along with securing the safety in the off position in the event you bump it while firing.
There is no excuse for this floppy safety, there are countless other guns out there at same price point or lower with a firmer feeling safety.
I didn't research it before I bought the parts so I had no idea how it worked or felt. I'm just letting guys know what to expect because I was kinda let down as the parts were always out of stock. So after such a long wait I was more than disappointed.
Again so far after shaving the safety down and taking a file to the detent ball and lever it's far more firmer than before. With stock safety I'd find the safety actually disengaged while holstered throughout the day some how.
Tex1001
Member
I've been stalking Speed Shooter Specialties (And others) for months, now for safeties to test with altered profiles and no joy. When did you buy yours?
BTW, The plunger spring can be replaced to alter the on/off safety tension.
_______________________
I don't have Alzheimer's- My wife had me tested.
Bought mine maybe 2 weeks ago. You have to act fast as soon as you get email stating they are in stock.
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Ofc.JL
Member
Fastbolt! You have it nailed!
Thanx!
Thanx!
ca survivor
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I don't buy MPs unless it has the thumb safety, 1911 guy here.
I mainly carry 1911s myself and prefer an external safety but this one in stock form was horrible. Even after modifying mine I'm most likely going to remove it. With the stock trigger it's almost not needed really with the hinged design and super long take-up, not to mention firing pin block. I'd be much happier if it actually locked the sear. As it stands now the only thing protecting you from mechanical failure is the spring in the firing pin block.
