Does it bother anyone else, or is it just me?

[keith44spl]

Sorry. When Col. Colt patented his new invention, he called it a "revolving pistol".

If I carry two Colt revolvers on my saddle swells...Do they then become "Horse Pistols"?



Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[A10]

45 long colt or 45 colt isn't the problem of 45 auto versus 45 ACP.
we all know the proper name is 45 ACP, but when we ask for 45 acp and the person behind the counter isnt really a gun guy, they don't have any because its all marked 45 auto. Attempting to explain it often results in a headache due to the non knowledgeable being the "professional" who has to be right.
its just easier to take a hard look behind the counter to see what they are calling it and conform accordingly.

This is why I always say, "I'll take a box of that stuff there. No, not that one, the one on the shelf below it, two rows over. No, not that one, the one above it. Thanks...."!

 

[mjr]

Revolvers are "revolvers." Semiautos and single shots are "pistols."

And this became codified when? And by whom? The NRA Board of Directors? The New York Times Style Book? The OCD Collectors Association? The Blue Press?

 

[rockquarry]

Some people run out of things to worry about.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

. . . . and he be knowin'.

Word......

 

[LVSteve]

You should run with the milsurp rifle folks to see the capacity for real confusion. Take for example the German round many here will know as "8mm Mauser". This was invented for the US market as Americans don't like decimal points in their calibers. Worse, much of the US "8mm" is supplied with a smaller bullet so that it can be used in old Commission rifles. "Proper" German spec 7.92x57 JS can lead to bad things in a commission rifle. So, lots of Americans buy the Remchester "8mm" for their grandad's WWII captured 98k (built for 7.92x57 JS) and then wonder why the accuracy is so-so.

The French really kept everyone guessing with their 8mm Lebel round. Over the years it had three different bullets and the chambers needed to be changed to accommodate the final variant Balle N. The bad news is that I suspect that those with no common sense and less mechanical sympathy could jam a Balle N round into a gun with a Balle D chamber with just a chunk of bullet setback. The results when the trigger is pulled can be imagined.

Then there is the European metric expression of caliber. Sometimes just to wind up certain folks I will refer to their favourite round as 7.62x63 and say that it shoots well from a P17. I nearly bought a Ballester Molina cheap at an auction because nobody would bid on it thinking that 11.25x23 was some unobtainable caliber. Another guy asked what the caliber was and I just smiled and said "Metric 45". He bought the gun, which was OK as it was pimp-nickled and I would not have given much for it.

 

[bluegrassarms]

Thinking about it..wasn't there a 'special' cartridge for the Colt 1909?...had more rim or some-such...maybe that's the much fabled seldom seen .45 short Colt

Not the 45 Short, but the cartridge isn't a fable. When Army Ordnance ordered the M1909 (Colt New Service) they were concerned that they weren't getting a completely clean eject of the cartridges. I've seen this blamed on issues ejecting the .45 Schofield (or S&W) cartridges (the .45 Short? M1887 Cartridge) Ordnance already had and b/c the "Long Colt" cartridge was long enough that it could come loose from the ejector and still be in the cylinder preventing a completely clean eject. The former makes the most sense to me as the M1887 had narrower rims as part of making it fit both the Schofield and Peacemaker. If they tested using the Schofield round it probably would have missed the ejector a lot.

Regardless, Ordnance had the Frankfort Arsenal make a custom .45 Long Colt with a very slightly wider rim that would hold to the ejector better but fit an unaltered New Service cylinder. The 1909 wasn't altered and shoots the .45 LC fine. The M1909 was seen as a stop-gap by Ordnance (the 1911 was coming) and they didn't want to modify the gun itself given that the whole point was to meet a more urgent need in the Philippines.

The cartridge was only made by the government at the Arsenal and was never produced commercially.

IMO the "45 Short" is the M1887 cartridge the Army went to to fit the Schofield and Peacemaker or the 45 Schofield itself. Both were shorter than the 45 "Long Colt" and given the popularity of both at the same time my swag is it fell into use then when .45 could mean Schofield or Colt or even the M1887 military cartridge that worked in both. If I wanted the 45 Colt I can see that being easily confused with the M1887 that would work in it but was not as long as the 45 Colt commercial cartridge.

That's a complete swag by me, but there was a time when you had the 45 Schofield, also called the 45 S&W, the M1887 cartridge that worked in the Colt 45 Peacemaker, and then the 45 Colt that worked in the 45 Colts but not in the 45 Schofield, I can see "long" and "short" falling into use. I believe the M1887 was even shorter than the 45 Schofield/S&W but I'm not sure but regardless that's 4 cartridges for 2 very popular 45 revolvers.

Then in 1909 you have the M1909 round then the .45 ACP in 1911. 45 mania.

 

[Sawfish]

What's in a name. When Sam Colt patented his great single action, those so chambered were referred to as 45 Colt, or Colt 45 in some areas. When John Browning introduced his battle pistol, it was also referred to as 45 Colt, or Colt 45. Now, if you are looking for a 45 Colt, or Colt 45 in some areas of the City, you might find yourself staring down the mouth of a can of malt liquor! .

 

[NYlakesider]

Well as long as someone opened up this rather stagnant thread and its raining hard outside and I’m bored a bit I will add my 4cents here (Raised the amount due to inflation.)

Been around guns 60+ years and I TRY but do not always succeeded in using the correct nomenclature so when I want .45 Colt that is what I call it. Looking for ammo or looking at lever action carbine. If I want ammo or guns shooting .45ACP I use that moniker.

I have BEEN CORRECTED by know it alls a few times and some of the people surprised me. A couple being what I thought were rather knowledgeable people owning or working in LGS or dealers with large inventories at gun show.

O give me that old 9mm vs. .38 .308 Vs 30.06 debate or even a good Ford Vs Chevy debate but leave the historic old Colt cartridges that just happen to have 45 as part of their name alone.

 

[Jessie]

No.... you're not being persnickety. MANY have asked that question many many times. The question is right up there with bear protection, 9mm vs .45 and clip vs magazine.

...just sayin'...

Go ahead & ask the guy at Walmart for .45 Colt ammo. Yer gonna get .45ACP every time. You might be right but you're still SOL when ya get to the range.

Not really; the clerk will probably say " 45 what?, never mind, doesn't matter, we don't have any"

 

[DR505]

Old thread for sure!

Here's one...Sausages have casings, cartridges have cases.

 

[Brian41]

I don't know but my buddy's Dad asked for 45 Colt when he really wanted 45 acp for his 1911. He was real disappointed when he got to the range and found he had 45 (long) Colt ammo and couldn't shoot his gun.
Since I was the only person he knew that had a 45 Colt I got a free box of shells. Another buddy gave me a box of 30.06 when he asked for .308.
Long live the confusion if it means free ammunition for me.

 

[Alpo]

From "Sixguns, by Keith". Elmer Keith. Y'all all heard of him, right? You think he just MIGHT know?

>Sam Russell had been an old Faro dealer in the Southwest before moving to Helena, Montana, where he ran a one chair barber shop. Sam was a little man, but very fast with a sixgun and deadly with a .45 from the hip. He used to pull the shades down over his front window and instruct me in quick draw work, often shooting short Remington .45 squib loads at the patterns in his linoleum floor covering. He had most of those small squares studded with the hollow base Remington slugs that had just power enough to drive them down about flush with the floor. If a cop came along and banged on the front door and wanted to know what was going on Sam would say "Go away. I am just giving a kid some pistol instruction."<

Now, it appears to me that if Remington loaded 45 squibs (squib - that's not a bullet that gets stuck in the barrel. It's an intentionally underpowered load. Like a 38 target wadcutter, or a 22 Colibri. A"gallery load") in short cases, and you wanted some 45s for serious business - like killing somebody - you might be apt to ask for 45 LONG Colts, to make sure you got a box of full-power loads.

 

[UncleEd]

OK, let's move on:

Is it .44 Winchester Central Fire or .44-40?

Is it .38 Winchester Central Fire or .38-44?

Is it .44 Smith and Wesson Special or is it .44 Special?

Is it .38 Smith and Wesson Special or is it .38 Special?

Should the word "magnum" always be capitalized when
referring to the .44 Smith and Wesson Magnum or the
.357 Smith and Wesson Magnum? Or is one or both
Remington Magnum? Dang, who knows any more?

And on and on!

 

[NYlakesider]

From "Sixguns, by Keith". Elmer Keith. Y'all all heard of him, right? You think he just MIGHT know?

>Sam Russell had been an old Faro dealer in the Southwest before moving to Helena, Montana, where he ran a one chair barber shop. Sam was a little man, but very fast with a sixgun and deadly with a .45 from the hip. He used to pull the shades down over his front window and instruct me in quick draw work, often shooting short Remington .45 squib loads at the patterns in his linoleum floor covering. He had most of those small squares studded with the hollow base Remington slugs that had just power enough to drive them down about flush with the floor. If a cop came along and banged on the front door and wanted to know what was going on Sam would say "Go away. I am just giving a kid some pistol instruction."<

Now, it appears to me that if Remington loaded 45 squibs (squib - that's not a bullet that gets stuck in the barrel. It's an intentionally underpowered load. Like a 38 target wadcutter, or a 22 Colibri. A"gallery load") in short cases, and you wanted some 45s for serious business - like killing somebody - you might be apt to ask for 45 LONG Colts, to make sure you got a box of full-power loads.

Elmer wrote that loooooooong ago about an old happening! You ever personally heard of or saw that load anyplace but in that book? Anyone else ever heard or saw that load?

Alpo I think your pushing a moot point.

 

[Fishslayer]

Old thread for sure!

Here's one...Sausages have casings, cartridges have cases.

I don't know. I saw a an impossibly hot gal cop ask her impossibly beautiful male cop partner (don't all cops have a perfect 2 day beard?) about "spent shell casings" once... What were those?

 

[Alpo]

OK, let's move on:

Is it .44 Winchester Central Fire or .44-40?

Is it .38 Winchester Central Fire or .38-44?

Is it .44 Smith and Wesson Special or is it .44 Special?

Is it .38 Smith and Wesson Special or is it .38 Special?

Should the word "magnum" always be capitalized when
referring to the .44 Smith and Wesson Magnum or the
.357 Smith and Wesson Magnum? Or is one or both
Remington Magnum? Dang, who knows any more?

And on and on!

It's a 38/40.

 

[therevjay]

Revolver/pistols

You're not alone but when major suppliers of the gun industry began to use LC it became acceptable. I conceded the battle at the same time "pistol" became interchangeable with "revolver".

Sam Colt called them "pistols."

 

[L Pete]

I don't know, but it was called the "Long Colt" when I was a kid....., and I'm 60+ years old now.......I ain't changing......to me, it's a .45 Long Colt...., and I'll continue to call it such........

 

[rimfired]

Now I'll have bad dreams. ACP, LC. I don't see the problem.
Modern ammunition and modern description.
Ya wanna dig, you'll find a lot of varying descriptions on antique boxes.