frame defect model 66 no dash

[ferdieguba]

Hi all
I just inherited a model 66 no dash with an interesting flaw in the top strap, any advice from you guys whether the pistol is still safe to shoot, the forging problem is about 3mm deep, 3mm wide, and 8mm long.
Its fired at least 100 rounds of full factory and about 8,000 target and its still tight.
Thanks

 

[Iggy]

Looks like they put the "black powder" cup in the wrong place in the wrong gun.

 

[bgrafsr]

I was thinking the same thing when I first saw it.

 

[VM]

Hi all
I just inherited a model 66 no dash with an interesting flaw in the top strap, any advice from you guys whether the pistol is still safe to shoot, the forging problem is about 3mm deep, 3mm wide, and 8mm long.
Its fired at least 100 rounds of full factory and about 8,000 target and its still tight.
Thanks

I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn last night but after eighty-one hundred rounds, I'd say you probably won't have any issues. If it were mine, I'd call it "character" and keep shooting.

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, I wouldn't sweat it. It is in a place of relatively low stress and isn't any more than the "blackpowder divot" S&W puts close to there and in a more structurally damaging orientation. It could be filled by a skilled welder with the proper equipment, then dressed down and polished out, but again I don't think it needs that. ........... Big Cholla

 

[ferdieguba]

VM sorry you could not sleep in a motel last night happens to me too sometimes.
I was thinking also that if the pistol survived to date it should be OK for a bit longer but I have a question 'what is a blackpowder divot'? I have shot open frame BP revolvers for 30+ years and never have come across that term!
Thanks all so far for your advice!

 

[s&wchad]

Not the greatest photo of a fouling cup, but you can see it here. It's on the inside of the topstrap, just behind the barrel.

 

[bgrafsr]

Here's another photo of the fouling cup. This one is from a post by blackpowder30 from Dec 2009.

 

[cubguy]

I would call this ^^^ flame cutting in post #8

 

[ferdieguba]

Yep, looks like a 'black powder cup, I've had gas cutting and it is quite a fine line on the top strap and this does not look like gas cutting

 

[ferdieguba]

Guess what guys S & W wants me to ship the 66 to them, might have decline

 

[ferdieguba]

Hi Guys
just an update, I took the model 66 in to the S & W gunsmith and he believes the indent in the center of the topstrap is not a concern however the head of the Australian dealership suggested the cylinder may not be able to take the pressures of a factory loaded cartridge as a lot of light target loads have been fired through it. Any opinions on this?
Also I have changed the changed the hand from 93 to 95 and the timing is now excellent, I also put in a 0.5 hammer and a 0.4 trigger, which they had in stock. DA and SA trigger is now beautiful. So anybody knows why a cylinder which has had about 20,000 light target loads have problems with about 100 factory loads?

 

[Alk8944]

You mean me told you that in some way firing relatively light loads in the gun some way weakened the cylinder so it may not stand up to full power loads? Does he believe you must fire full power ammunition in a gun to maintain the strength of the cylinder????? Your so-called "Gunsmith" is an idiot without the ability to think rationally! Unless you somehow misinterpreted what he really said.

 

[ferdieguba]

What was said was 'that because of the number of light loads fired, ie 20,000 rounds at about 10,000psi wadcutter stuff, I should not fire factory 357 loads or even 38 Special +P loads because the cylinder will fail at the cylinder stop cut outs', his assistant gunsmith quietly did say ignore that piece of advice. The concern is this info was given to me by S & W representative in Australia? My experience is that constant heavy load stretch things not low pressure loads and I have yet to see a S & W cylinder fail. the only reason I have seen S & W fail is due to powder detonation and this takes out 3 chambers and the top strap

 

[WR Moore]

What was said was 'that because of the number of light loads fired, ie 20,000 rounds at about 10,000psi wadcutter stuff, I should not fire factory 357 loads or even 38 Special +P loads because the cylinder will fail at the cylinder stop cut outs'

I don't know Aussie for male bovine excrement, but this is definately that. Just because someone wrangled S&W rep status doesn't automatically make them techinically competent.

the only reason I have seen S & W fail is due to powder detonation and this takes out 3 chambers and the top strap

Various experts, testing labs and powder companies have demonstrated that "detonation" is virtually impossible. Mutiple powder charges (or the wrong powder) generally are responsible for missing cylinder parts and top straps.

 

[ferdieguba]

My apologies could be wrong about detonation however I have seen a Philippine made 'Thunderchief' 38 special that lost the top strap ad the owner swore there was on only 1.9 grains of Bullseye, long time ago so my memory is a bit hazy.

As far as the S & W gunsmith, I think S & W needs to re-educate him because he is not doing a service to a good company

 

[Nightowl]

Well, that's a new one. I think we have heard a lot of BS on the forum from folks who have more mouth than experience. As long as the cylinder is thoroughly cleaned of the deposits left from firing .38s in a .357 cylinder, light loads will do no harm to the cylinder. I've got a 586 that has probably 100,000 rounds of .38 Special through it that I wouldn't hesitate to fire another 100,000 rounds of magnums through.

 

[ferdieguba]

wow a 100,000 rounds impressive, though remember the 66 I have is a K frame not an L frame and there were rumours of frame stretch and forcing cone cracking problems with lots of 125 grain loads but mine has neither and has spent most its life firing light target loads, only had about 1 packet of factory loads!
I was just gobsmacked to hear a comment not even to fire +P as the cylinder will crack near the cylinder stop slots.

 

[WR Moore]

I once had a Colt Authorized Service Center guy tell me that the reason so many 1911 slide stops were breaking was due to changes in vibration patterns in the slides caused by Bo-Mar sights being sunk into the slides. Colt allegedly told him so.

After a few moments of consideration I realized that was so stupid it rendered me speechless.

 

[Fastbolt]

I once had a Colt Authorized Service Center guy tell me that the reason so many 1911 slide stops were breaking was due to changes in vibration patterns in the slides caused by Bo-Mar sights being sunk into the slides. Colt allegedly told him so.

After a few moments of consideration I realized that was so stupid it rendered me speechless.

Okay, that gave me a much-needed chuckle.

I'd have adopted a serious & thoughtful expression, and then asked the gentleman if it made any difference if I'd left my 1911's stored in the dark, instead of in lighted conditions, myself.

Makes about as much sense.

I've had one of the other unit armorers report that they've had at least half a dozen broken slide stops in some special enforcement 1911's that see a lot of monthly training. I recommended they consider replacing their recoil springs a bit sooner (before the belts show through the tread, so to speak), especially since they've been using 230gr +P loads that hit about 990fps. Just a thought.

The funny things you can hear. Some are even funnier when you hear them espoused with a straight face and an ever-so-serious mien.