Ivory
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Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
All I heard was that Obama had proposed an Executive Order banning sales. No details were forthcoming on what would be affected. Jewelry? Antique art carvings? Pianos? There was uproar from several quarters as this would gore many sacred cows (see previous sentence). Nothing more has been heard (by me). May have been posturing to appease radical groups with no intention to follow through.
Sounds like a good......
Sounds like a good strategy to me.
A lot of 'proposed bills' would be best left staying 'proposed'.
Sounds like a good strategy to me.
A lot of 'proposed bills' would be best left staying 'proposed'.
Last I heard there was a bill in Congress to deny funding for the executive order enforcing the ban.
J. R. WEEMS
Member
Do we really care?? EO are to many I know-- 
Do we really care?? EO are to many I know--
How about ivory from a mammoth that's been dead for several thousand years?
fat tom
Absent Comrade
"Not affected. Nobody is poaching them.
f.t. "
How do you prove that it's that old?
The earrings I got my wife when I was up in AK had no box or paper work other then what the store told me about them.....
f.t. "
How do you prove that it's that old?
The earrings I got my wife when I was up in AK had no box or paper work other then what the store told me about them.....
fat tom
Absent Comrade
Mammoth ivory doesn't really resemble elephant ivory all that closely. At least none that I have seen. I wouldn't worry about it 'til the authorities start carrying carbon dating kits around with them. 
f.t.
p.s. Heck,I'm just not going to worry about it at all.
f.t.
p.s. Heck,I'm just not going to worry about it at all.
jag312
Member
This is what I have heard, and I will try to word this carefully to avoid politics:
1. There is over $100,000,000 in Asia art just in California that would have been seized as being illegal because there is no Federally required documentation. These people are mad, and they have money to file lawsuits against the Federal Government.
2. In June when the Budapest String Orchestra for a series of State Department sponsered performances, US Customs seized some of their instruments and charged some of the musicians as ivory smugglers. After the State Department intervened, the instruments were returned, and the State Department paid the fines.
3. Washington is giving certain exemptions to musicians providing that they do not join with the NRA in any lawsuits.
4. The proposed ivory ban was initially an idea to stick it to some gun owners who were viewed in Washington as wannabe George Pattons. What the pea-brains in Washington didn't realize was that their ivory ban would affect a lot more than ivory handled guns. It would affect the Steinway piano in the White House, the Liberace Museum, the Metropolitan Opera in NYC, the art community (collectors and dealers), and many others, besides gun owners with ivory handled guns.
5. The art dealers, collectors, and museum patrons combined have billions at their disposal and are willing to join with the NRA to file lawsuits to tie up this proposed ban for years.
I collect historical Western art, and although I don't collect Asian art or contemporary art that contains ivory (such as Erte), I do talk with those who do, and they are beyond furious. They are questioning the sanity of certain pea-brains in Washington. Their attitude is "Screw the Feds. Nobody is taking their art and investments away."
Of course, I don't own any ivory handled guns. I was using them as ballast in my canoe in a canoe race across Lake Tahoe last month. The canoe overturned, and I lost everything. What? You don't believe me? Well, just dive down to the bottom of Lake Tahoe and see my guns for yourself. They're there. Trust me.
1. There is over $100,000,000 in Asia art just in California that would have been seized as being illegal because there is no Federally required documentation. These people are mad, and they have money to file lawsuits against the Federal Government.
2. In June when the Budapest String Orchestra for a series of State Department sponsered performances, US Customs seized some of their instruments and charged some of the musicians as ivory smugglers. After the State Department intervened, the instruments were returned, and the State Department paid the fines.
3. Washington is giving certain exemptions to musicians providing that they do not join with the NRA in any lawsuits.
4. The proposed ivory ban was initially an idea to stick it to some gun owners who were viewed in Washington as wannabe George Pattons. What the pea-brains in Washington didn't realize was that their ivory ban would affect a lot more than ivory handled guns. It would affect the Steinway piano in the White House, the Liberace Museum, the Metropolitan Opera in NYC, the art community (collectors and dealers), and many others, besides gun owners with ivory handled guns.
5. The art dealers, collectors, and museum patrons combined have billions at their disposal and are willing to join with the NRA to file lawsuits to tie up this proposed ban for years.
I collect historical Western art, and although I don't collect Asian art or contemporary art that contains ivory (such as Erte), I do talk with those who do, and they are beyond furious. They are questioning the sanity of certain pea-brains in Washington. Their attitude is "Screw the Feds. Nobody is taking their art and investments away."
Of course, I don't own any ivory handled guns. I was using them as ballast in my canoe in a canoe race across Lake Tahoe last month. The canoe overturned, and I lost everything. What? You don't believe me? Well, just dive down to the bottom of Lake Tahoe and see my guns for yourself. They're there. Trust me.
handejector
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rburg
Member
Another clarification needed. There was no Bill or law. There wasn't even an Executive Order. It was the loose cannons in Fish and Wildlife that just decided they needed to "do something". So the enacted their very own ban. It simply makes sales and transfers, along with interstate movement of ivory object unless they have some arcane documentation. It must be older than a few arbitrary dates, depending on what it purports to be. If its Asian, it goes by one age and if its African, another. Basically what you need is indisputable proof of its age and documents proving when it was imported.
No one has that kind of documentation. When you buy a gun with handles on it, it never comes with customs documents. Same deal for your Steinway. They made the ban broad enough that their greenie liberal friends were happy. And its got a loophole you could drive a white ivory truck through. You're allowed to own your treasures. But if you move from cold and ugly New York, your piano stays there. And you can't give it or sell it to anyone.
Yes, there is a term for this. Its what comes out of the south end of a north bound male bovine. Who knows if the next president (no caps) will force them to rescind their little game. No chance of the bill denying funding passing. The Senate is held hostage.
No one has that kind of documentation. When you buy a gun with handles on it, it never comes with customs documents. Same deal for your Steinway. They made the ban broad enough that their greenie liberal friends were happy. And its got a loophole you could drive a white ivory truck through. You're allowed to own your treasures. But if you move from cold and ugly New York, your piano stays there. And you can't give it or sell it to anyone.
Yes, there is a term for this. Its what comes out of the south end of a north bound male bovine. Who knows if the next president (no caps) will force them to rescind their little game. No chance of the bill denying funding passing. The Senate is held hostage.
fat tom
Absent Comrade
Post turtles,the whole bunch of 'em.
f.t.
f.t.
keith44spl
Member
It ain't a few pair of pistol grips that's using up all that ivory....
It's all 'em antique billiard balls
.
It's all 'em antique billiard balls
.
kozmic
Member
I may or may not have bought an ivory guitar nut (string alignment piece at the top of the neck) and bridge pins (retain the strings at the bridge) a number of years ago for my favorite accoustic.
Total weight is way less than an ounce. I believe I could currently do more jail time than someone smuggling in a pound of heroin.
Total weight is way less than an ounce. I believe I could currently do more jail time than someone smuggling in a pound of heroin.
Although the proposal was deeply flawed, I believe something needs to be done to prevent the poaching currently ongoing.
As the fiasco on drugs has shown, something would have to be done to curtail demand to be successful. Much of the problem is currently with China, and I can't think of a way the USA could affect that.
As the fiasco on drugs has shown, something would have to be done to curtail demand to be successful. Much of the problem is currently with China, and I can't think of a way the USA could affect that.
jag312
Member
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Importing new ivory already banned. No law stops criminals and anyone on a gun forum should know that.
Like I said in Post #2, there were no details about what would be affected. Fossil ivory? Art? Jewelry? Musical instruments? Nobody could say. It was a giant cluster fluff and was met with resistance from all sides except the radical animal rights people. I would not be surprised if never surfaces again.
Like I said in Post #2, there were no details about what would be affected. Fossil ivory? Art? Jewelry? Musical instruments? Nobody could say. It was a giant cluster fluff and was met with resistance from all sides except the radical animal rights people. I would not be surprised if never surfaces again.
Rick Bowles
Absent Comrade
Here is the latest.
October Events Important for Ivory Ban
Efforts continue in October to oppose the ivory ban. The Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking has called another public meeting where we can continue to voice objections, and the Elephant Protection Association is reaching out to new groups, businesses and ivory owners to get them engaged in the battle to protect elephants without hurting innocent Americans.
Advisory Council Public Meeting on October 17
in Washington, D.C.
Northeast Japanese Swords & Cultural Arts Show
The Advisory Council for Wildlife Trafficking has announced another public hearing for Friday, October 17 in Washington, D.C. The meeting notice says the Council intends to "devote a significant portion of the meeting" on species besides elephants and rhinos. The notice did not say it is restricting comments about ivory. If you would like to attend the meeting in person to make a comment, you must notify the Council in writing by October 3. You can reserve a seat and an opportunity to speak through our website by clicking here:
Make Reservation
If you want to submit written comments to the Council, you need to submit them electronically through the Federal eRulemaking Portal at Regulations.gov by 11:59 PM Eastern on October 10, 2014. Go to Regulations.gov, then search FWS-HQ-IA-2014-0019 in the Search box, then click "Comment Now." Faxes and e-mails will not be accepted. To submit comments by mail, see Click Here for instructions.
The Elephant Protection Association will be at the Northeast Japanese Swords & Cultural Arts Show in Philadelphia from October 17-19. The show melds ancient Samurai swords with more modern Japanese cultural arts.
October Events Important for Ivory Ban
Efforts continue in October to oppose the ivory ban. The Advisory Council on Wildlife Trafficking has called another public meeting where we can continue to voice objections, and the Elephant Protection Association is reaching out to new groups, businesses and ivory owners to get them engaged in the battle to protect elephants without hurting innocent Americans.
Advisory Council Public Meeting on October 17
in Washington, D.C.
Northeast Japanese Swords & Cultural Arts Show
The Advisory Council for Wildlife Trafficking has announced another public hearing for Friday, October 17 in Washington, D.C. The meeting notice says the Council intends to "devote a significant portion of the meeting" on species besides elephants and rhinos. The notice did not say it is restricting comments about ivory. If you would like to attend the meeting in person to make a comment, you must notify the Council in writing by October 3. You can reserve a seat and an opportunity to speak through our website by clicking here:
Make Reservation
If you want to submit written comments to the Council, you need to submit them electronically through the Federal eRulemaking Portal at Regulations.gov by 11:59 PM Eastern on October 10, 2014. Go to Regulations.gov, then search FWS-HQ-IA-2014-0019 in the Search box, then click "Comment Now." Faxes and e-mails will not be accepted. To submit comments by mail, see Click Here for instructions.
The Elephant Protection Association will be at the Northeast Japanese Swords & Cultural Arts Show in Philadelphia from October 17-19. The show melds ancient Samurai swords with more modern Japanese cultural arts.
handejector
Staff member
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"Not affected. Nobody is poaching them.
f.t. "
How do you prove that it's that old?
The earrings I got my wife when I was up in AK had no box or paper work other then what the store told me about them.....
Schreger Lines.
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