Unusal guns of Vietnam

[walnutred]

That jungle armory pistol looks fairly sophisticated compared to the one my brother in law brought home in 68. The one he has consists of a 30-06 casing drilled out and to hold a 22LR shell. This is wired to wooden handle. He said a couple other GIs and himself were leaning against a building in the shade and this kid that looked to be in his early teens walked up, aimed the "pistol" and him and hit the back end with a rock, piece of pipe or something. The shot wounded the guy next to him.

 

[vigil617]

The CIA "Deer Gun" in Viet Nam

I'm late to this thread too, but wanted to both thank those of you who served in SE Asia and also to add an item that no thread about unusual guns of Viet Nam should be without:

I learned recently from a local militaria dealer here in the Fayetteville / Fort Bragg area, that the CIA had developed back in the 1960s the so-called "Deer Gun" for distribution to local forces early in the war. It was essentially a 9mm assassination weapon for killing an enemy soldier so his weapon could be taken and used. It was made here in the States with no markings whatsoever to identify its origin, for obvious reasons.

My dealer had seen one recently and showed me pictures, and I did some additional research on this fascinating weapon. These are way rare, and the few surviving examples have been valued over $25,000 per copy!

Thought you guys would get a kick out learning about it. I'd never heard of anything like it (well, save for the WWII Liberator pistol) before.

Here's a good article about it:

The CIA's Deer Gun: Dirty deeds, done (not so) dirt cheap - Guns.com

 

[Saigon1965]

It would be great to see some pictures -

That jungle armory pistol looks fairly sophisticated compared to the one my brother in law brought home in 68. .

Oh never too late and thank you for your info - Super neat -

I'm late to this thread too, but wanted to both thank those of you who served in SE Asia and also to add an item that no thread about unusual guns of Viet Nam should be without:

Here is a pretty good facsimile of an AK -







A shotgun - 2 shot repeater too!

 

[shouldazagged]

I learned recently from a local militaria dealer here in the Fayetteville / Fort Bragg area, that the CIA had developed back in the 1960s the so-called "Deer Gun" for distribution to local forces early in the war. It was essentially a 9mm assassination weapon for killing an enemy soldier so his weapon could be taken and used. It was made here in the States with no markings whatsoever to identify its origin, for obvious reasons.

My dealer had seen one recently and showed me pictures, and I did some additional research on this fascinating weapon. These are way rare, and the few surviving examples have been valued over $25,000 per copy!

Thought you guys would get a kick out learning about it. I'd never heard of anything like it (well, save for the WWII Liberator pistol) before.

That's fascinating, thanks for posting it.

 

[m249b]

Spiked ammo in Vietnam

As I recall the C.I.A. did a bunch of spiked ammo you guys are thinking of. I believe it was "operation eldest son" if my memory serves me correctly. It was mostly a Mac-V deal with the planting done by special ops guys. I saw a article a while back stating the disassembly and spiking took place on Okinawa.

 

[Saigon1965]

Them spec-ops dudes are always playing around on the job -

As I recall the C.I.A. did a bunch of spiked ammo you guys are thinking of. I believe it was "operation eldest son" if my memory serves me correctly. It was mostly a Mac-V deal with the planting done by special ops guys. I saw a article a while back stating the disassembly and spiking took place on Okinawa.

Chpped M14E2 -




The Enforcer -




Jungle workshop 1911 -

 

[BE Mike]

Well, first, it wasn't just a story. I was there and saw it.

Personally, I wouldn't know a baboon from a spider monkey. But that was the translation I got when I asked what it was. I do know it was a BFM and had awesome teeth.

Bob


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A buddy of mine used to talk about "rock apes" in RVN. He said that they (the apes) would throw rocks at his men. I saw monkeys in trees and in the hands of troops. My salute to the "ground pounders". You were the guys who had it the roughest. I'm sorry that you had to see things that no one should ever have to see so close up and personal. It's sad that you weren't given time to decompress and instead had to bury the pains of war so deep. To keep my post on topic, I'll just say that the only unusual weapon I saw in RVN was a Colt Python, always loaded with magnums. One of our guys had his father send it to him. He was wounded and sent home, but the revolver never made it back. I always wanted a compact long gun, like a sawed off shotgun or M3. IIRC a Marine had a gun shop up near Dong Ha, where one could buy just about anything. I never made it to the gun shop, so I had to be content with my S&W model 10, with 4" barrel and round butt.

 

[Voyager28]

A buddy of mine used to talk about "rock apes" in RVN. He said that they (the apes) would throw rocks at his men. I saw monkeys in trees and in the hands of troops.

I heard lots and lots of "stories" about Rock Apes. But, in 18 months of "snooping" all over the I Corp area I never saw one or saw any sign of one.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[BE Mike]

I heard lots and lots of "stories" about Rock Apes. But, in 18 months of "snooping" all over the I Corp area I never saw one or saw any sign of one.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

My buddy was in the 1st Cav. in 1969-70. I don't think that he was in I Corps. He told me about them a few years later. I have no reason to think that he would fabricate a tale. He holds the CIB, Purple Heart and other decorations.

 

[Saigon1965]

Hello and welcome home Mike - Great looking picture!

I never made it to the gun shop, so I had to be content with my S&W model 10, with 4" barrel and round butt.

Bob - You never saw any because we ate them all!

I heard lots and lots of "stories" about Rock Apes. But, in 18 months of "snooping" all over the I Corp area I never saw one or saw any sign of one.

Bob


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Camster]

I wasn't inferring that it was "just a story". I believe you. I'm just an amateur naturalist curious about the exact monkey.

Maybe some form of macaque. I'll check and see if I can find a good candidate.

A correspondent near Cape Town has had baboons invade her home. Has to keep windows locked. Probably chacma baboons. They're the ones that are in South Africa, replacing the olive ones from further north.

I'd hate to get bitten by one. Even leopards treat them with caution. But they're very fond of baboon meat when they can take one.

I've seen baboons in Kenya and near Capetown.
They are nothing that you want to mess with.A mean set of chompers.

 

[Camster]

Early Nam must have been rife with captured French Weapons ?

I have a friend who was a Marine there in 1963-1965.He's told me very little,except that he got an early discharge for agreeing to stay an extra six months on top of his 13 month deployment.

 

[shouldazagged]

I've seen baboons in Kenya and near Capetown.
They are nothing that you want to mess with.A mean set of chompers.

When my late brother was a Navy radioman he was stationed at an inter-service communications base in Asmara, Eritrea, which then was still part of Ethiopia. When service personnel left the base they were required to carry 1911A1s. The official line was that there were bandits in the hills around the highway, and there were. But the main reason for the sidearms was troops of baboons that could throw fist-sized rocks with devastating force and great accuracy. They are scary critters.

 

[Saigon1965]

Hi Camster - That was very early on in the war - Lots of clandestine ops -

I have a friend who was a Marine there in 1963-1965.He's told me very little,except that he got an early discharge for agreeing to stay an extra six months on top of his 13 month deployment.

Damn apes! It wasn't enough that we have to worry about the human shooters but on top of that!

When my late brother was a Navy radioman he was stationed at an inter-service communications base in Asmara, Eritrea, which then was still part of Ethiopia. When service personnel left the base they were required to carry 1911A1s. The official line was that there were bandits in the hills around the highway, and there were. But the main reason for the sidearms was troops of baboons that could throw fist-sized rocks with devastating force and great accuracy. They are scary critters.

Look at all these funky little things -




Our fellas had them - Well the VC went and copied it too!




Some sort of single shot stuff here -






Gentlemen - What would we be able to make in our "jungle workshop" if we are in the VC's shoes?

 

[Beltfedbob]

Hi Camster - That was very early on in the war - Lots of clandestine ops -




Damn apes! It wasn't enough that we have to worry about the human shooters but on top of that!





Look at all these funky little things -




Our fellas had them - Well the VC went and copied it too!




Some sort of single shot stuff here -






Gentlemen - What would we be able to make in our "jungle workshop" if we are in the VC's shoes?

Those pictures brought back memories. Here are a couple of mine that one would need to be fairly desperate to use Still have an SKS but the AK47's and M1A1 are long gone.

 

[miroad]

Swedish K and Browning Hi-Power

Some SF units had sterile Hi powers and Swedish Ks.

Not only SF but also CIA staff officers. I was in Danang and always carried a Swedish K (along with six 30-round mags in a shoulder pouch) and my Hi-Power.

 

[Bowserb]

Early in the war- MAC V, I flew for the US Army- Army Security Agency doing airborne electronic survallance out of the Tan Son Nhut Air Base - then up north. The Gov't issued .45's we were issued were unreliable at best, probably picked over from the Korean war.

I, as did many others, obtained a new 9mm Browning - Hi-Power and used that as my side arm. (Thanks Mom)
The aircraft had no on-board armament - just three old .30 cal M-1 carbines rattling around in the back made by Saginaw Steering......just in case you had to get out and walk !
Still have the Browning.....
Hell of a situation when you've got to buy the guns you had to fight with.....Grrrrr !

Interesting your M1 carbine. What was later designated the M-16, was originally developed for the Air Force.

Remember, the last complete 1911 pistols the government bought were in 1945. Any used in Korea, Vietnam or up until the Beretta replaced them, were from WWII and had been rebuilt or refurbished by Rock Island Armory or Springfield Armory. Being an ordinary grunt, I didn't have a sidearm, but it's interesting that the .45 my CO carried in 1967-68 was older than I was and had been in more wars than probably any man in the Army!

 

[Cruise]

I worked with a Special Forces (Green Beret) Sergeant who spent a couple of tours in Viet Nam. One of my favorite stories he told was how he liked to take a loaded AK-47 magazine, and strip off the top 3 to 4 rounds. He would then remove the projectile from one of the rounds, dump the powder charge, shave some strips of C-4 (plastique explosive) and stuff them into the cartridge case, reload the projectile, reload the magazine, and them leave the doctored magazine where it could be found by enemy troops. That Sergeant had a wicked sense of humor.

Regards,

Dave

The Mike Force I flew for did the same in ammo caches they found. Just a few to screw with their heads and make the whole mess suspect. Kind of like Russian Roulette on steroids.

 

[miroad]

That's exactly why MAC-V kept announcing on AFRTS that AK's were unsafe and could blow up on you. Common practice was to seed VC/NVA ammo caches with C-4 loaded ammo. I had a captured AK myself when I was in 'Nam but only shot ammo from a pristine, sealed case of ammo. Even then I was tense shooting off the first mag (at full auto the get over the suspense quickly). Surprise!!

 

[LtBlue425]

I read an interesting article on this subject in the American Rifleman magazine. The US government wanted to spread fear and mistrust of the NVA allies. The operation was called "Operation eldest son". The government scientists developed an explosive that when visually inspected, resembled gun powder. The US would find a stockpile of munitions, and instead of destroying, they would plant numerous explosive rounds of ammo, faulting mortar rounds that would explode when dropped down the tube and various other booby-trapped munitions. The VC got so vary of their own ammunition that they filed complaints with China for supplying them with defective munitions that were killing their own troops. An interesting operation.

I've seen enough video from the Middle East of mortars exploding when dropped in the tube. Makes me wonder if this type of covert operation is happening or if its just poor quality weapons plus untrained terrorists.