A hard-to-find as-issued relic of WWII..

[AJ]

When did the adjustable rear sight start? I have a Saginaw SG which has an unstaked adjustable sight, but all other features are early original. It's a minty gun and I've always been curious as to it's originality.

If you are talking a Saginaw S'G', it was never made with an adjustable rear sight. Those that have it have been through a rebuild.

The Type II milled rear sight was on the Saginaw Gear's starting at S/N 6,060,000.

 

[desi2358]

If you are talking a Saginaw S'G', it was never made with an adjustable rear sight. Those that have it have been through a rebuild.

The Type II milled rear sight was on the Saginaw Gear's starting at S/N 6,060,000.

One point of confusion for many people is that Saginaw Gear took over the Irwin-Pederson operation after it failed to produce carbines that met Government requirements. Those made at that facility after the takeover were marked S'G' to distinguish them from those made at the original Saginaw plant which were simply marked SG.

 

[AJ]

One point of confusion for many people is that Saginaw Gear took over the Irwin-Pederson operation after it failed to produce carbines that met Government requirements. Those made at that facility after the takeover were marked S'G' to distinguish them from those made at the original Saginaw plant which were simply marked SG.

You have three different manufacturers convoluted together, Saginaw Gear (S'G') of Grand Rapids, Michigan, Saginaw Gear (SG) of Saginaw, Michigan and Irwin Pederson (IP) of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

I have four different references on M1 Carbines. War Baby! & War Baby II by Larry Ruth, U.S.M1 Carbines, Wartime Production by Craig Riesch and The M1 Carbine III by J.C.Harrison.

 

[Aggie1906]

Saginaw knew how to build metal stuff in quantity.. IP did not. I met the guy who went to GR to make things right. Pretty sure it was well written up in one of Ruth's book. Bud Doerfner. Hope my spelling recollection is right.

 

[desi2358]

You have three different manufacturers convoluted together, Saginaw Gear (S'G') of Grand Rapids, Michigan, Saginaw Gear (SG) of Saginaw, Michigan and Irwin Pederson (IP) of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

I have four different references on M1 Carbines. War Baby! & War Baby II by Larry Ruth, U.S.M1 Carbines, Wartime Production by Craig Riesch and The M1 Carbine III by J.C.Harrison.

I don't think I convoluted anything about the three companies, simply pointing out a difference that many people who are not active collectors of carbines are unaware of. I stated that there is a marking difference, that the difference was due to Saginaw Gear having to take over the failed Irwin Pederson plant (which had been unable to produce carbines that passed inspection) and being able to distinguish parts made in one plant from parts made in the other after that takeover.

And by the way I have my own collection of reference books and actively collected M1 Carbines for @ 20 years. Also worked full time in the gun business and bought and sold a lot of military surplus firearms. Knowing as much as possible about what I was dealing with was important........... And helped in dealing with people who ranged from serious collectors to the guy who just had or wanted one example of a particular gun but wanted to learn whatever he could about the subject.

 

[AJ]

I don't think I convoluted anything about the three companies, simply pointing out a difference that many people who are not active collectors of carbines are unaware of. I stated that there is a marking difference, that the difference was due to Saginaw Gear having to take over the failed Irwin Pederson plant (which had been unable to produce carbines that passed inspection) and being able to distinguish parts made in one plant from parts made in the other after that takeover.

And by the way I have my own collection of reference books and actively collected M1 Carbines for @ 20 years. Also worked full time in the gun business and bought and sold a lot of military surplus firearms. Knowing as much as possible about what I was dealing with was important........... And helped in dealing with people who ranged from serious collectors to the guy who just had or wanted one example of a particular gun but wanted to learn whatever he could about the subject.

You Sir, misread what I was trying to say. I was simply trying to point out that there were manufacturers making basically the same item using almost the same ID stampings. Maybe confusing would have been a better word.

Only 20 years? I dropped my membership in the Carbine Club over 20 years ago. Started playing with these back in the late 80's. Reference Libraries are good to have. Lets continued this via PM's or email rather than wasting space here.

 

[desi2358]

You Sir, misread what I was trying to say. I was simply trying to point out that there were manufacturers making basically the same item using almost the same ID stampings. Maybe confusing would have been a better word.

Only 20 years? I dropped my membership in the Carbine Club over 20 years ago. Started playing with these back in the late 80's. Reference Libraries are good to have. Lets continued this via PM's or email rather than wasting space here.

Well, we seem to be misunderstanding each other as my post was basically about the same issue of similar but not identical stamps. As to 20 years with Carbines I have had the bad habit of becoming obsessed with collecting one item (brand, model, type, etc.) until I become bored then I tend to switch my interests to something else and dispose of most (but rarely all!) of what I was collecting and start off on a new tangent collecting something else!

The years of working in gun stores didn't help either, talk about enabling my addictions LOL! For the last few years S&W revolvers have been my main focus with an occasional foray into other items that catch my eye.......... But I always bought books on what my interest of the time was and never sell the books. Never know when something I once collected will pop up at a price I can't refuse!

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

Fun little rifles for small game and varmints.

 

[AJ]

Well, we seem to be misunderstanding each other as my post was basically about the same issue of similar but not identical stamps. As to 20 years with Carbines I have had the bad habit of becoming obsessed with collecting one item (brand, model, type, etc.) until I become bored then I tend to switch my interests to something else and dispose of most (but rarely all!) of what I was collecting and start off on a new tangent collecting something else!

The years of working in gun stores didn't help either, talk about enabling my addictions LOL! For the last few years S&W revolvers have been my main focus with an occasional foray into other items that catch my eye.......... But I always bought books on what my interest of the time was and never sell the books. Never know when something I once collected will pop up at a price I can't refuse!

Understand about changing interests. Collected Garands for a while. A friend and I went to the CMP North Store every year and bout a couple of rifles each every trip. Got jaded as to that. Collected Carbines for quite a while, until I had one of every manufacturer plus a couple of M1A1's. Then got tired and sold them off except one. Got into heavy barrel .22 target rifles (had about 20)m, now down to three. Never worked in a gun shop, but hung out there when wife was working and I was off. Helped out a bit, then did evals on military stuff for them. Got a few bennies there. Got more books in my library then I care to think about. Good deals abound if you know what you are looking at and have cash!