Derringers
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Professor Frink
Member
I briefly owned a 45 Colt/410 Bond Arms Derringer. I must confess I was pretty disappointed with it. The 45 colt was fine, but inaccurate (I wasn't expecting much, but I think due to the very short amount of rifling due to the 410 shell space, no spin was imparted on the bullets). They flew pretty far afield as to my point of aim.
The 410 was the surprise. I fired buckshot rounds from it and what I would call a duplex load (had three lead discs with some #4 shot as well... I think, don't hold me too that). The buckshot and the discs bounced off my pine target stand. I didn't expect that. Were I to do it again, I'd get something in 9mm/.38.
The 410 was the surprise. I fired buckshot rounds from it and what I would call a duplex load (had three lead discs with some #4 shot as well... I think, don't hold me too that). The buckshot and the discs bounced off my pine target stand. I didn't expect that. Were I to do it again, I'd get something in 9mm/.38.
Jim1392
US Veteran
Don't under estimate the power of a NAA 22 Magnum. When I take my dog out for a walk in the mornings and sometimes late at night I usually drop a NAA 22 Magnum Pug in my front pocket in a holster. I carry it with Hornady Critical Defense 45 grain FTX .22 Mag. ammunition in it. The picture I have attached is the first time out with it at the range. All rounds were fired at 7 yards, and at that distance there was some keyholing of the rounds. But you can see after my first few rounds it can be very accurate once I got a feel for it. Closer up it's spot on. I feel very confident carrying it for my short trips around my neighborhood. Other then that my 640 Pro goes with me when I venture out into the real world. 
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David Sinko
Member
Not long ago a guy at the range had a .22 Magnum derringer that he was actively using for concealed carry. I asked to see it and he offered to let me shoot it. Neither one of us could get it to go bang with the ammo he was carrying. He was absolutely horrified and my distrust of derringers was reinforced. If you're gonna use one, make sure it functions properly and will fire the ammo that you're carrying in it.
Dave Sinko
Dave Sinko
I have or had all of the calibers of American Derringer, 38,357,44 mad, 45 acp,45 colt, they shot extremely well and with improved triggers are very accurate. The most accurate are the Buffalo Arms derringers 357 mag, made in the late 1980, by a LEO. They are legitimate 7 yd head shot guns. Davis , now Cobra, make reasonably accurate derringers which can have their trigger pull improved by the company. I have the cobras in 38,380,9mm, 22 mag and also have a pair of High Standard 22 mag, top barrel is dead on, bottom is 3-4" low. I have never had one fail, ( do not DRY fire, it will damage them, bearing falls out, safety would not work till replaced.) As for CC I would prefer an AA12 or a slicked up Saiga- 12 with 00 buck, that said I have many custom holsters and I put them all over for fun!! I would if all I was wearing was a bathing suit, but I prefer to go only down to a 638 or two for walking to the mailbox. I want to try a NAA 22 mag rev since I really like Hornady's Critical defense load in 22 mag. They do require practice just as a 500 SW does. New shooter-NO! Some one who carries most every day for 37 yrs OK. I have found that when you can not change clothes ( OR Scrubs) a 638 can make your pants fall down. Be Safe,
Cal44
Member
Derringers have an old west appeal, but if you want a really small hide-out gun it seems to me something like a Kel-tec p32 would be better.
Less than 10 oz with 7+1 shots of 32 acp would beat a two shot derringer IMHO.
Less than 10 oz with 7+1 shots of 32 acp would beat a two shot derringer IMHO.
Another Zombie Thread.
Thanks for resurrecting it, as I missed Smokey04's story when the thread was new.
As others have written, derringers make a good backup. I have both a Cobra 9mm O/U derringer and an NAA MiniMag and both shoot extremely well (as short barreled as they are).
I did consider the Bond Arms 45LC/.410, but when you have so many lightweight 9mms out there now-a-days, why settle for a heavy 2-shot option as a primary?
Thanks for resurrecting it, as I missed Smokey04's story when the thread was new.
As others have written, derringers make a good backup. I have both a Cobra 9mm O/U derringer and an NAA MiniMag and both shoot extremely well (as short barreled as they are).
I did consider the Bond Arms 45LC/.410, but when you have so many lightweight 9mms out there now-a-days, why settle for a heavy 2-shot option as a primary?
Erich
Member
+1 on the thanks for the thread resurrection: I'd also missed Smokey04's story. Wow!
My experience is that my Bond Derringer is utterly reliable (centerfires with fixed barrels are funny that way
), both with its original .45 Colt (only - none of this shotshell nonsense) and its .45 ACP barrel sets.
Size is pretty small, tho the thing is decently heavy. It's great IWB or in the pocket with a Remora.
I presently have thinner rubber stocks on the derringer, and like them better for carry.
A couple of barrel inserts (bought a single set of six with two other derringer owners - came out to under $20 for each of us) allow the use of .22 LR for practice (which is pretty helpful, actually - these guns do require some practice with regard to drawing and cocking them).
I've only fired the .45 Colt barrels with handloaded .45 Colt and .45 Cowboy rounds (see below) and gotten decent results with higher pressured stuff, but I've found .45 ACP handloads and factory loads are decently speedy out of the 3" tubes.
For instance:
Hornady 200-gr +P TAP - 895.6 fps
Winchester Ranger Talon 230-gr +P 853.5 fps
That should leave a mark.
My experience is that my Bond Derringer is utterly reliable (centerfires with fixed barrels are funny that way
), both with its original .45 Colt (only - none of this shotshell nonsense) and its .45 ACP barrel sets.
Size is pretty small, tho the thing is decently heavy. It's great IWB or in the pocket with a Remora.
I presently have thinner rubber stocks on the derringer, and like them better for carry.
A couple of barrel inserts (bought a single set of six with two other derringer owners - came out to under $20 for each of us) allow the use of .22 LR for practice (which is pretty helpful, actually - these guns do require some practice with regard to drawing and cocking them).
I've only fired the .45 Colt barrels with handloaded .45 Colt and .45 Cowboy rounds (see below) and gotten decent results with higher pressured stuff, but I've found .45 ACP handloads and factory loads are decently speedy out of the 3" tubes.
For instance:
Hornady 200-gr +P TAP - 895.6 fps
Winchester Ranger Talon 230-gr +P 853.5 fps
That should leave a mark.
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italiansport
Member
I have a COP derringer(4 shot) that's new in the box in 357 Magnum. IMO: It's far too bulky to actually carry.
Jim
Jim
I also just saw this thread and glad as heck that SMOKEY made it back to tell the tail.
It worked out well for him due to the dumbness of the enemy in not finding that little gun. With that said the only two shot weapon I would want to trust my life to would have barrels measured by gauge not caliber (Remember the 4.10 is a bore size) This is a case where bigger barrels are better than small barrels.
We had an incident here a couple years back when a legally licensed derringer was dropped and it went BANG in a public space and put the anti gun crowd into indignant overdrive.
IMHO guns that are just a little bigger, carry more shots, hopefully much safer and in most cases are much more accurate are far better to carry.
Hey whatever floats your boat, it's your decision, and for me I want bigger oars on my boat!
It worked out well for him due to the dumbness of the enemy in not finding that little gun. With that said the only two shot weapon I would want to trust my life to would have barrels measured by gauge not caliber (Remember the 4.10 is a bore size) This is a case where bigger barrels are better than small barrels.
We had an incident here a couple years back when a legally licensed derringer was dropped and it went BANG in a public space and put the anti gun crowd into indignant overdrive.
IMHO guns that are just a little bigger, carry more shots, hopefully much safer and in most cases are much more accurate are far better to carry.
Hey whatever floats your boat, it's your decision, and for me I want bigger oars on my boat!
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I carried a HS .22 mag as my "Onion Field" gun. I still occasionally drop it in my pocket for mowing the lawn. As smokey04 demonstrated it is an appropriate last ditch weapon. When I bought mine the only option that was in the same size category was a .25 or .22LR pocket auto. The Buffalo .357 was just out, but not as likely to survive a good frisking. The COP was a brick. As so many others have noted, there are better options today as a hideout and MUCH better as a primary.
If the Onion Field reference is obscure to you, get a copy of Joe Wambaugh's book of the same name. Unlike most of his stuff, it is non-fiction.
If the Onion Field reference is obscure to you, get a copy of Joe Wambaugh's book of the same name. Unlike most of his stuff, it is non-fiction.
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Erich
Member
Regarding the first part of the post I quote, I'm aware of two accidental shootings with dropped NAA mini-revolvers. When I considered these together how frequently I'd find my NAAs to have somehow moved their hammer off the between-the-chambers notch even while riding in pocket holsters, I traded my pair off.
Regarding the second part, "Amen, brother!" I have my Bond Arms derringer, but it's really unusual for me to carry it for precisely the reasons you mention.
I did the same, back in the day. I hadn't heard of any real world experience with the effectiveness of the .22 mag out of the little HS, but Smokey's experience confirms my suspicions. It was comforting to have that little piece hidden on those long, lonely nights.
Many years ago, I tried a derringer as a backup gun. I do not recall the brand, but do not think it was a known piece of junk. On my first shot it misfired. Upon recocking the gun both barrels went off. It was a 38 special and both going off was fairly unpleasant. I returned the gun to its owner, thanked him for the opportunity and have never handled a derringer again.
I love resurrected threads!!!! Good job Professor Frink!
WELCOME BACK SMOKEY04/Nick! Glad your time at the Southeast Asia Tea Party was successful. Your choice of weapons proved dramatically correct and I'm proud to have read your story! Well done!
The High Standard "over-under" .22 magnum derringer is an iconic weapon, for the most part completely different from any other derringer ever made, and the only gun that I am aware of that when properly holstered becomes an NFA Class III item. Well, actually, it's the holster that the NFA "aow" aka "any other weapon", $5.00 taxed (and thus, arguably, it is registered, I guess) weapon. The gun itself becomes a "concealed gadget device" when placed into the Galco wallet holster.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...i2EGQbo9MnpxfnFoet2DdslygNe4BclWwaAY6EX-iy998
I'll give you some references from Google - some lead to discussions on this Forum and some to other discussion boards, ATF notes, etc.:
https://www.google.com/search?site=...drc...0...1c.1.58.hp..2.14.1040.0.k-0vUhl0d-8
Other "wallet holster" that reveal grips, or reveal slides on small pistols, do not fall within the purview of the ATF restriction. If the gun is totally invisible, for all intents and purposes, as it is when fully enclosed in that Galco holster, it needs the $5.00 tax to be paid. If you're interested then skim through the pictures that are in the page with the holster I pictured above and you'll see a wallet rig on a Beretta Jetfire or 950BS single action pistol that comes pretty doggone close to making that gun invisible but, even then, the hammer does show. So I'd be uncertain about that one.
So the little High Standard .22 Magnum goes from a cute little hideout gun (great choice, again, Nick!!!) that is very hard to notice to a gun that is still hard to notice (though not quite as disappearing as it was for an unholstered one carried by Nick in his jacket) to a quarter of a million dollar felony if you're caught with one in a Galco wallet holster. I'd call that iconic!
I agree with Nick, it's not my first choice for a concealed carry gun, not when I can tote a 642 around all day in a pocket holster; however, on the other hand, I have two such derringers, and I have carried one of my High Standard .22 WMR derringers in a Galco wallet holster in the pocket of my bath robe for a very long time - so when I'm bopping around the house in skivvies and a robe I still have a gun available quickly - only no felony, guys, I paid the 5 bucks and I do have the NFA tax stamp!
I also have a very old Remington .41 rimfire derringer, nickel plated, gorgeous little devil, that I have never fired and possibly never will. I have fired Davis derringers, American and Bond derringers, all at cowboy action matches, and NAA teeny tiny derringers (I have the tiniest;. 22 Short only!), and for a host of reasons I would never carry one as my concealed carry handgun. They're bulky and shaped funny, unless you have them worked on they're very hard to cock, recoil with any good SD caliber is silly, and getting the second shot off after that first one is problematic at best - except at cowboy action matches with tricked out guns and light loads and then we all suddenly look like speed shooters. Bond suggests a .45 caliber derringer with .410 shotshells is a great snake gun - I prefer to avoid the snake but I'll settle for any revolver over the derringer. YMMV.
***GRJ***
WELCOME BACK SMOKEY04/Nick! Glad your time at the Southeast Asia Tea Party was successful. Your choice of weapons proved dramatically correct and I'm proud to have read your story! Well done!
The High Standard "over-under" .22 magnum derringer is an iconic weapon, for the most part completely different from any other derringer ever made, and the only gun that I am aware of that when properly holstered becomes an NFA Class III item. Well, actually, it's the holster that the NFA "aow" aka "any other weapon", $5.00 taxed (and thus, arguably, it is registered, I guess) weapon. The gun itself becomes a "concealed gadget device" when placed into the Galco wallet holster.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...i2EGQbo9MnpxfnFoet2DdslygNe4BclWwaAY6EX-iy998
I'll give you some references from Google - some lead to discussions on this Forum and some to other discussion boards, ATF notes, etc.:
https://www.google.com/search?site=...drc...0...1c.1.58.hp..2.14.1040.0.k-0vUhl0d-8
Other "wallet holster" that reveal grips, or reveal slides on small pistols, do not fall within the purview of the ATF restriction. If the gun is totally invisible, for all intents and purposes, as it is when fully enclosed in that Galco holster, it needs the $5.00 tax to be paid. If you're interested then skim through the pictures that are in the page with the holster I pictured above and you'll see a wallet rig on a Beretta Jetfire or 950BS single action pistol that comes pretty doggone close to making that gun invisible but, even then, the hammer does show. So I'd be uncertain about that one.
So the little High Standard .22 Magnum goes from a cute little hideout gun (great choice, again, Nick!!!) that is very hard to notice to a gun that is still hard to notice (though not quite as disappearing as it was for an unholstered one carried by Nick in his jacket) to a quarter of a million dollar felony if you're caught with one in a Galco wallet holster. I'd call that iconic!
I agree with Nick, it's not my first choice for a concealed carry gun, not when I can tote a 642 around all day in a pocket holster; however, on the other hand, I have two such derringers, and I have carried one of my High Standard .22 WMR derringers in a Galco wallet holster in the pocket of my bath robe for a very long time - so when I'm bopping around the house in skivvies and a robe I still have a gun available quickly - only no felony, guys, I paid the 5 bucks and I do have the NFA tax stamp!
I also have a very old Remington .41 rimfire derringer, nickel plated, gorgeous little devil, that I have never fired and possibly never will. I have fired Davis derringers, American and Bond derringers, all at cowboy action matches, and NAA teeny tiny derringers (I have the tiniest;. 22 Short only!), and for a host of reasons I would never carry one as my concealed carry handgun. They're bulky and shaped funny, unless you have them worked on they're very hard to cock, recoil with any good SD caliber is silly, and getting the second shot off after that first one is problematic at best - except at cowboy action matches with tricked out guns and light loads and then we all suddenly look like speed shooters. Bond suggests a .45 caliber derringer with .410 shotshells is a great snake gun - I prefer to avoid the snake but I'll settle for any revolver over the derringer. YMMV.
***GRJ***
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Erich
Member
The Bond Arms stackbarrel derringers are really wonderfully made. I managed a gun store for two years between college and law school, and I can tell you that Bond Arms is the exception to the rule in that regard - your experience sounds closer to the norm.
I agree with that statement completely. My dislike of them for SD purposes has nothing to do with their quality. They really are excellent.
***GRJ***
I notice plenty of HS derringers offered for sale on Gun Broker. They have increased in value since I acquired mine. I think I paid $200 for each of them. One seller is selling a wallet holster and included this caveat that I felt compelled to share:
Another seller is included a ******* Leather (Galco's original name) wallet holster with the derringer but he fails to mention the ATF issue - I am surprised that Gun Broker has not spotted that issue.
***GRJ***
Another seller is included a ******* Leather (Galco's original name) wallet holster with the derringer but he fails to mention the ATF issue - I am surprised that Gun Broker has not spotted that issue.
***GRJ***
smokey04
Member
Thank you all for the "high praise" on my all expense paid tour of the land of the stinking rice paddy. I felt that the HS was a good choice at the time. There are so many alternatives these days I wouldn't consider a .22 Mag. I've not studied on it but I think my first inclination now would be the Colt .380 Mustang PocketLite[I have two of the originals]
That history lesson from 44 years ago should have noted that it was the last of 3 tours in the RSVN. It ended on 11 Feb. 1971for me with a spectacular helicopter tree landing! Two hundred feet later[helicopters do not "hang" in trees] the aircraft was up side down and facing backward from the way it went in. My Crew Chief/ door gunner and my co-pilot were both badly injured. As the smoke cleared after nearly 7 hours of ugliness with the soldiers of an NVA Battalion, our unit came in and recovered us. The hero of that battle was, and shall ever be, Saint John M. Browning. A beat up, issued ,Rem-Rand 1911A1 saved ALL the bacon that day! My three,including me, and one co-pilot from another downed aircraft are still alive and raising cane as old " Air Cavalry Scouts".If interested, go to Jouster.Com forums and look for "Service Stories", "Where were you on 1 Feb. 1971" it is a recounting of the heroism I posted for my Crew Chief. Sorry, I don't know how to post a link. Thanks again ,and all of you please know how much we appreciate the welcome given our returning troops these days. Us'n old farts know how important that is. Nick
That history lesson from 44 years ago should have noted that it was the last of 3 tours in the RSVN. It ended on 11 Feb. 1971for me with a spectacular helicopter tree landing! Two hundred feet later[helicopters do not "hang" in trees] the aircraft was up side down and facing backward from the way it went in. My Crew Chief/ door gunner and my co-pilot were both badly injured. As the smoke cleared after nearly 7 hours of ugliness with the soldiers of an NVA Battalion, our unit came in and recovered us. The hero of that battle was, and shall ever be, Saint John M. Browning. A beat up, issued ,Rem-Rand 1911A1 saved ALL the bacon that day! My three,including me, and one co-pilot from another downed aircraft are still alive and raising cane as old " Air Cavalry Scouts".If interested, go to Jouster.Com forums and look for "Service Stories", "Where were you on 1 Feb. 1971" it is a recounting of the heroism I posted for my Crew Chief. Sorry, I don't know how to post a link. Thanks again ,and all of you please know how much we appreciate the welcome given our returning troops these days. Us'n old farts know how important that is. Nick
SMOKEY04……what a story….I'm glad you came out ahead on that
event in your life, welcome home……I carried a .38 derringer somewhere around 35 years ago…..there were a couple times I tried to fire it……just to see how it would work, and it didn't…..I got rid of it……..been thinking about a small deep cover gun, that is not really a derringer, but is a 2 shot……not looking to highjack this thread, but anyone have any experience with the double tap?
Semper Fi!
event in your life, welcome home……I carried a .38 derringer somewhere around 35 years ago…..there were a couple times I tried to fire it……just to see how it would work, and it didn't…..I got rid of it……..been thinking about a small deep cover gun, that is not really a derringer, but is a 2 shot……not looking to highjack this thread, but anyone have any experience with the double tap?
Semper Fi!
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