Range restrictions on FMJ for rifle

[smokindog]

I've been trying to get a good practical answer on restricted use of FMJ bullets at outdoor rifle ranges.

It's getting very difficult to find ranges that allow the use of FMJ rifle bullets. I'd just like someone to give me a simple and easy to understand reason for these restrictions, even with earth backstops.

Sorry if this seems simple to most, it confuses the you know what out of me

 

[sureshotbob]

My local private club has a restriction on bullets with a steel core but full metal jacket are ok.

 

[Aticus]

My club range has no restriction on FMJ but does restrict 50 BMG from the gongs for obvious reasons. There is a local INDOOR range the restricts the use of hard cast bullets but allows factory lead and 22 LR. I find that odd.

 

[NYlakesider]

No idea!

My club had no such restrictions. We had a big solid hill as the ranges back stop.

Of course we did restrict tracer type ammo.

 

[smokindog]

Thanks for the responses thus far! To help keep this thread from drifting too far (many like me at times forget to read the original psot), I understand that many ranges have no such restrictions and some have others.

I'm really trying to get a grip on the logic of limiting the use of FMJ rifle rounds at an outdoor range, especially when earth backstops are used. I don't understand and wish to

THANKS AGAIN!!!

 

[Simmer down]

I've given up looking for a FMJ range around Dallas. I have several 100 rounds of 7.39 and an AK sitting on the sidelines for some time now.

 

[Fishinfool]

A FMJ restriction on an outdoor range doesn't make a lot of sense to me, unless they are somehow worried about ricochets.

There is quite a selection of FMJ Hollow Point bullets and loaded ammo available. I would probably just use that, and claim ignorance if questioned - It is hollow point ammo....

Larry

 

[smokindog]

Hollow point and "exposed lead tip" are typically allowed. That's the other part of the confusion. I can somewhat understand FMJ restrictions on non-earthen backstops but, ...

I'm still hoping SOMEONE knows why this is becoming the norm. Non FMJ ammo gets expensive, especially if they restrict reloads. I just bought the 6K pack of Hornady soft point .223 for this very reason!

A FMJ restriction on an outdoor range doesn't make a lot of sense to me, unless they are somehow worried about ricochets.

There is quite a selection of FMJ Hollow Point bullets and loaded ammo available. I would probably just use that, and claim ignorance if questioned - It is hollow point ammo....

Larry

 

[Bkreutz]

Hollow point and "exposed lead tip" are typically allowed. That's the other part of the confusion. I can somewhat understand FMJ restrictions on non-earthen backstops but, ...

I'm still hoping SOMEONE knows why this is becoming the norm. Non FMJ ammo gets expensive, especially if they restrict reloads. I just bought the 6K pack of Hornady soft point .223 for this very reason!

Maybe ask the range, there has to be a reason behind the rule (whether you agree with it or not). It could be a local code thing, it could be an insurance thing, it could be the owners personal preference, or..............??

 

[smokindog]

Been that route, no real answer! That's why I was hoping to get some insight from this group

Maybe ask the range, there has to be a reason behind the rule (whether you agree with it or not). It could be a local code thing, it could be an insurance thing, it could be the owners personal preference, or..............??

 

[zeke]

A lot of igorant old timers still hold the belief fmj's are more destructive than other types. Mainly cause the military used em. Reality usually differs.

 

[LVSteve]

There are multiple reasons why ranges dislike FMJ, some of which are partially valid while the rest are urban legends. A few examples.

1) "FMJ ricochets more than SP." Not buying that one, myself.

2) "FMJ penetrates a lot more than SP." Why does this matter with an earth backstop?

3) "A lot of FMJ is steel cored and creates sparks when it strikes stones in the backstop starting fires." There is a smidgen of truth in this in some of he drier parts of the US. It is true that steel core can create havoc on steel targets and backstops.

4) "FMJ is only used by those with military style guns and we want to discourage that sort of thing." Errm, most folk with non-military style guns use FMJ to practice because it's cheaper.

5) "FMJ is only used by spree shooters and we don't want them practicing here". Does this Kool-Aid taste funny to you?

 

[MP1983]

I've been trying to get a good practical answer on restricted use of FMJ bullets at outdoor rifle ranges.

It's getting very difficult to find ranges that allow the use of FMJ rifle bullets. I'd just like someone to give me a simple and easy to understand reason for these restrictions, even with earth backstops.

Sorry if this seems simple to most, it confuses the you know what out of me

I have no idea, but if the range managers ignore the question, send each range a letter requesting an explanation and copy a gun-friendly state rep in your area (and maybe the chamber of commerce and/or mayor's office where each is located). You should get some sort of answers.

 

[H Richard]

Normally FMJ is not allowed on steel targets because it craters or even penetrates the steel and that causes ricochets or splatter back and the damage to the targets.

 

[smokindog]

Looks like you're about in the same place I am BTW, FMJ in handguns is OK at these same places

For the person responding about metal targets, I get/agree with that but we're talking paper targets here

There are multiple reasons why ranges dislike FMJ, some of which are partially valid while the rest are urban legends. A few examples.

1) "FMJ ricochets more than SP." Not buying that one, myself.

2) "FMJ penetrates a lot more than SP." Why does this matter with an earth backstop?

3) "A lot of FMJ is steel cored and creates sparks when it strikes stones in the backstop starting fires." There is a smidgen of truth in this in some of he drier parts of the US. It is true that steel core can create havoc on steel targets and backstops.

4) "FMJ is only used by those with military style guns and we want to discourage that sort of thing." Errm, most folk with non-military style guns use FMJ to practice because it's cheaper.

5) "FMJ is only used by spree shooters and we don't want them practicing here". Does this Kool-Aid taste funny to you?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Normally FMJ is not allowed on steel targets because it craters or even penetrates the steel and that causes ricochets or splatter back and the damage to the targets.

Someone forgot to tell us.

We've got several ranges at the Club. They are all pristine well groomed and maintained ranges.... except this one... and is by far the most used and popular-- The Plinking range. Shoot anything and everything. This stuff is pretty thick and has been taking a whupping for many years at 60yds. The steel I-beams seem impervious or perhaps the angle is such that they just ricochet off.

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[tops]

I can't answer for the range you use but I won't allow them on my range because of ricochets. There is a good chance that a soft point will bust up but a fmj will ricochet off and go no telling where. Larry

 

[Rastoff]

A lot of igorant old timers still hold the belief fmj's are more destructive than other types. Mainly cause the military used em. Reality usually differs.

This is the answer right here. Rules get enacted based on what people believe. Then because range Z does it, then we should probably do that too. And round and round we go. Logic rarely plays a part.

The fix to this is to get on the club board and change the rule.

The steel I-beams seem impervious or perhaps the angle is such that they just ricochet off.

Those aren't just I-beams, they are sections of railroad track. If they came from some old track that was disassembled after being used for 100 years, that track will be super hard.

 

[zeke]

1-normal military 223, 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 fmj breaks up easier on 500 brinell, than hunting rounds. This is from direct observation on brand new properly designed and mounted targets, compared to others.

If people are going to be setting up steel targets on ranges for others use, they should learn themselves about the proper design, material and distance recommendations. A overly heavy soft steel plate at close range is beyond ill advised. Shooting at severely pockmarked steel targets is invitation to bullets coming right back at ya, as is shooting 22's at heavier steel targets.

Shooting steel at angles will cause ricochet's, doesn't matter if it is fmj or lead soft points. Soft loaded 38 special swaged full wad cutters are particularly prone to ricocheting from steel targets.

Common military steel core/plating/jacketing is soft steel, unless specifically designed to be a penetrator round. Have watched .308 caliber hunting rounds cause more damage than 7.62x54 military round. A lot of military rounds are actually designed to tumble and break up, causing more damage to soft tissue.

Targets should be designed to swing, or be angled back to deflect force down.

Am going to guess most restrictions about using fmj rounds at range is specific to limiting those who like to shoot a lot of the military calibers in semi auto rifles. Something a lot of people like to do, and can still enable cheaper practice in most common calibers.

There are several legitimate steel target makers who have gone into some depth explaining the proper use of steel targets.

 

[glowe]

All I can add is that we have a range that is open to the members during daylight hours and there is no onsite supervision. We make sure everyone knows the rules and all new members are educated on the do's and don't's of shooting metal targets.

We have many 25 yard steel targets that get riddled with holes from FMJ ammo. We used to keep a stencil that we paint lead bullets only, but guess what - our members can not read and the stencils wear off quickly. Magnetic FMJ is even worse. We have not banned FMJ ammo, but it is a real pain to keep repairing and replacing targets. I expect many clubs ban FMJ to lengthen the life of their targets and keep repair/replace costs down.