Every bullet you fire better hit the perp all the miss's will put you in jail.Every bullet has to be accounted for . A pray and spray of 15 shots will not do you any good. Is a J-frame enough ? It will be if you can hit what you aim at and at arms length for most CCW it will be. The j-frame can be deployed at close combat very easy even through the coat pocket shots at contact distance.
Is a 642 Enough for Carry?
- Thread starter MarkAlt
- Start date
JAREDSHS
Member
Well stated and I agree.
Well put, I carry a 5 shot snubby and drive a 4 cylinder, 4wd base model truck. It's all I need.
njr
Member
Had the smith swap out the original springs on my Smith 638 for lighter, trigger pull is now 9lbs. Much better, more accurate shooting. I can actually hit pretty accurately in double action out to 21 feet but still have to go to single action for 35 feet.
I would not try to shoot an airweight snubby in double action past 15 feet without a lighter trigger pull, too much working against you. Nine pound pull is doable, 12 pound pull isn't.
I would not try to shoot an airweight snubby in double action past 15 feet without a lighter trigger pull, too much working against you. Nine pound pull is doable, 12 pound pull isn't.
one eye joe
US Veteran
I CARRIED A FULL SIZE 1911 GOVERNMENT MODEL, AS A BACK UP TO MY ISSUE M-16 IN VIETNAM. THE HABIT OF CARRYING A 1911, CONCEALED, CONTINUED FROM MY DISCHARGE FROM THE MILITARY IN 1969 UNTIL ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO. MY WEAPON OF CHOICE WAS ALWAYS A COLT. A TRICKED OUT COLT, GOLD CUP TROPHY, AND 3 CHIP McCORMICK, 10 ROUND MAGS ENDED UP BEING MY DAILY COMPANIONS. IF 31 ROUNDS OF .45 ACP COULDN'T SOLVE MY PROBLEM, IT WAS TIME TO CALL IN A DUST OFF CHOPPER……
HEALTH ISSUES, ASSOCIATED WITH MY EXPOSURE TO AGENT ORANGE, CAUSED ME TO HAVE TO RETHINK MY CHOICES WITH REGARD TO PERSONAL PROTECTION. I NOW CARRY A 686+ WITH A 642 AS A BACKUP, OR THE 642 BY ITSELF. I ALSO CARRY 2 SPEED STRIPS. THAT GIVES ME 24 ROUNDS IF I'M CARRYING BOTH GUNS OR 17 IF I JUST TAKE THE 642. THAT'S A SERIOUS AMOUNT OF FIREPOWER, BASED ON GUNFIGHT STATISTICS. I THINK THAT THE OP WOULD BE WELL ARMED WITH THE 642 AND A COUPLE OF SPEED STRIPS. I LOAD BOTH MY GUNS WITH SPEER, GOLD DOT, .38 SPL.+P, 135GR JHP, FOR SHORT BARRELS. IMHO, THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION TO STEP UP TO .357 MAGNUM ROUNDS FOR SD/HD OUT OF A SHORT BARREL. THE GOLD DOTS WILL GET THE JOB DONE. DEAD IS DEAD……..
HEALTH ISSUES, ASSOCIATED WITH MY EXPOSURE TO AGENT ORANGE, CAUSED ME TO HAVE TO RETHINK MY CHOICES WITH REGARD TO PERSONAL PROTECTION. I NOW CARRY A 686+ WITH A 642 AS A BACKUP, OR THE 642 BY ITSELF. I ALSO CARRY 2 SPEED STRIPS. THAT GIVES ME 24 ROUNDS IF I'M CARRYING BOTH GUNS OR 17 IF I JUST TAKE THE 642. THAT'S A SERIOUS AMOUNT OF FIREPOWER, BASED ON GUNFIGHT STATISTICS. I THINK THAT THE OP WOULD BE WELL ARMED WITH THE 642 AND A COUPLE OF SPEED STRIPS. I LOAD BOTH MY GUNS WITH SPEER, GOLD DOT, .38 SPL.+P, 135GR JHP, FOR SHORT BARRELS. IMHO, THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION TO STEP UP TO .357 MAGNUM ROUNDS FOR SD/HD OUT OF A SHORT BARREL. THE GOLD DOTS WILL GET THE JOB DONE. DEAD IS DEAD……..
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With some good loads like Speer GDSB 135 grain +P you will be good to go, 5 rounds is more than one and one isn't none but I'm having fun with my little gun and I'm on the run and it don't weigh a ton and I'm all outta puns so just carry the gun.
You dig?
Really though, all rapping aside, I personally think a 642 or any .38 special J-frame is going to get you through just about anything. Now if you really lack confidence in it, then carry a bigger gun with more bullets attached. Confidence is critical for a carry gun. I have confidence in my 642-1 no-lock:
You dig?
Really though, all rapping aside, I personally think a 642 or any .38 special J-frame is going to get you through just about anything. Now if you really lack confidence in it, then carry a bigger gun with more bullets attached. Confidence is critical for a carry gun. I have confidence in my 642-1 no-lock:
njr
Member
Should also say that I ended up getting a Springfield Range Officer Compact for the ergos and the 45acp. However, if I'm going to work, putting on and taking off the bellyband rig (Renegade- it's like a girdle with shoulder straps) is a major pain. Don't want to take it off in the work parking lot and scare the wibs so I have to wrestle it off while in the commute. Not a good nor convenient arrangement. I would like a little more firepower given my situation, so I'll probably get a Shield in 9mm for easy on- easy off. Am also planning on packing the Shield with the Smith 638 during the summer with the Shield probably riding in smartcarry. Don't want to scare the wibs here in the big city.
Still really like the Springer, that will probably see duty on the weekends, in the winter.
Still really like the Springer, that will probably see duty on the weekends, in the winter.
GF
Member
NO!
Carry a Mac 10.
You ARE getting your information from the internet, you know!?!
GF
M3Stuart
Member
Chris642
Member
Do I feel a 642 is enough to carry? Sadly, with all the current mob trends that suddenly flare up over every single incident these days, and the hate, vitriol and sense of entitlement from people in general I'm seeing everywhere, which I believe are only going to get worse in the future, I would say no. Some might say, "Well, if you avoid mobs you'll be OK". Really, what about those flash mobs that come out of nowhere? How does one prepare for that? Unlikely you say? Well, Murphy and his law has a funny way of showing his face at the oddest times. If we were going to simply go by how likely it is we would need our guns then why not just carry a two-shot derringer, or nothing at all? In the end, none of the arguments will matter if you don't survive.
These comments that I'm reading on these forums, like "If I had to use more then 5 rounds I'm probably going to die anyhow" or "I only consider those 5 rounds good enough to fight my way to my battle rifle, or whatever the variations on those comments may be, are downright ridiculous not to mention defeatist, and usually don't reflect reality.
There has been and will be more cases in the future where having to reload or needing a high-cap semi-auto to save the day was in order. There is a reason why LEO's no longer carry 5 or 6 shot revolvers as their primary weapons. I know most of us here are not LEO's and may never be involved in the same situations as they, but we can give a cautionary nod towards them and learn from their experiences.
Don't get me wrong, I love my 642, and about 15-20 years ago I would've been in solid agreement with everyone here that it would suffice for most SD needs. The J-Frame in my opinion is the finest discrete carry revolver there ever was, and when I'm running errands or just going about my business around my mid-sized town, it's riding in my pocket or IWB. However, if I plan on traveling to the big city or being out all day during festivities, I would feel better with some more firepower. Which is why I'm looking into buying another J-Frame so that I can carry two of them, or a higher cap semi-auto.
These comments that I'm reading on these forums, like "If I had to use more then 5 rounds I'm probably going to die anyhow" or "I only consider those 5 rounds good enough to fight my way to my battle rifle, or whatever the variations on those comments may be, are downright ridiculous not to mention defeatist, and usually don't reflect reality.
There has been and will be more cases in the future where having to reload or needing a high-cap semi-auto to save the day was in order. There is a reason why LEO's no longer carry 5 or 6 shot revolvers as their primary weapons. I know most of us here are not LEO's and may never be involved in the same situations as they, but we can give a cautionary nod towards them and learn from their experiences.
Don't get me wrong, I love my 642, and about 15-20 years ago I would've been in solid agreement with everyone here that it would suffice for most SD needs. The J-Frame in my opinion is the finest discrete carry revolver there ever was, and when I'm running errands or just going about my business around my mid-sized town, it's riding in my pocket or IWB. However, if I plan on traveling to the big city or being out all day during festivities, I would feel better with some more firepower. Which is why I'm looking into buying another J-Frame so that I can carry two of them, or a higher cap semi-auto.
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I think a 642 / 442 is a great choice for ccw. I have had one for several years and actually gave it to my wife for her to carry. It doesn't take a lot of special training to teach someone or yourself to shoot it well, and I find it hard to believe that 5 shots wouldn't get me out of a bad situation... Good luck!
Interesting old thread, as it started out.. As an Full-Time LEO for over 31 years, I have generally carried (off-duty) either compact (8-15 round) autos in 9mm, .40 S&W or .45. Larger events and bad neighborhoods called for a third magazine & maybe a pocket full of 620 Goodness.
Started P/T job as an SRO for a small private school back in August, retired from my F/T 29 October. New job has changed a bit since then... I'm now to dress very casually (jeans & tucked pocket-tee or polo, etc.), and I'm also responsible for Building Maintenance.
Being in the Mr. Fix-It roll, around a bunch of younger students & their parents (I'm present for sporting & extra-carricular events, as well), I've also considered down-sizing my 'hardware'. Just ordered an 642-1 to replace the 640 no-dash I passed on to my brother a few years ago.
As I spend more time around the larger areas of the school (auditorium, gymnasium, etc.), I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I should stick with the P-239 or 4513? Just that I'm pretty "solid" built, and the wardrobe desired doesn't exactly lend itself to much aid in concealing these "compact" yet bulkier choices.
Since this quandry is in line with the OP's ancient question, I don't feel too guilty tagging my dilemma on to his thread. Any sound advice, based on experience rather than theory?
Started P/T job as an SRO for a small private school back in August, retired from my F/T 29 October. New job has changed a bit since then... I'm now to dress very casually (jeans & tucked pocket-tee or polo, etc.), and I'm also responsible for Building Maintenance.
Being in the Mr. Fix-It roll, around a bunch of younger students & their parents (I'm present for sporting & extra-carricular events, as well), I've also considered down-sizing my 'hardware'. Just ordered an 642-1 to replace the 640 no-dash I passed on to my brother a few years ago.
As I spend more time around the larger areas of the school (auditorium, gymnasium, etc.), I'm having second thoughts. Maybe I should stick with the P-239 or 4513? Just that I'm pretty "solid" built, and the wardrobe desired doesn't exactly lend itself to much aid in concealing these "compact" yet bulkier choices.
Since this quandry is in line with the OP's ancient question, I don't feel too guilty tagging my dilemma on to his thread. Any sound advice, based on experience rather than theory?
njr
Member
Try smart carry Scott. It should work for hiding up to compact size.
wildenout
Member
I carry a Model 60 and have never felt undergunned. I think being able to shoot a .357 is a great feature, but not something to make a habit of doing in a J frame. That is something best left for the K/L framers, too much stress and too hot. Importance for a CCW is re-occuring shot placement, and I havn't seen many a gentleman do well in that field with a .357 IMO.
njr
Member
No I haven't but researched them. Seems like they carry compacts well and give you options for extra mags. The only hesitation I would have is drawing from appendix but some people wear the holster in the hip area too.
njr
Member
I love the flat shooting of a 357- with an SP101 I'm even more accurate than with a Shield in 9mm. Wouldn't want to shoot in a confined space though. I use my snubby for up close/ambush defense. Would love a 44 special from the SP101 platform that would be perfect. If I want more power and accuracy I go with my Springer RO Compact.
Cal44
Member
This isn't from experience, not even theory, but more from observing events.
The school shootings that have made the news, are in all cases I remember, the work of one crazy person or one student (or two in the case of Columbine) going berserk.
So a 5 shot gun would be enough to handle it if you can get to a position to be sure of hitting the shooter and not one of the other kids.
If you are in a situation where you're likely to miss several times, you probably wouldn't want to shoot given the chance of hitting a fleeing student.
Seems like the situation of having to deal with several bad guys in a school just doesn't happen very often, if ever.
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Good point, it occurred to me as well. Maybe my 642 & a couple speed-strips for 'everyday' use would work out fine. Always have the option of reverting back to something more 'substantial' if my senses tingle or rumors float.
Edmo
US Veteran
Is this gun or that round "enough"?
If any of us could answer that question we would be much more enlightened than the average joe. Most of us can only speculate based on antidotal evidence.
From this we can assume no two self defense encounters are going to be the same. If you can answer some of the following questions you might find your answer(s)...
- How many attackers will there be?
- Will all of the attackers continue their attack once I introduce a gun to the confrontation?
- When and where will the attack occur?
- Will there be others with me or in the line of fire?
- Will it be light or dark during the attack?
- Will I be able to make all of my shots count?
- Do I carry extra ammo and can I quickly reload if necessary?
- Will the ammo I carry function as advertised even through barriers?
- Are the attackers under the influence of drugs which might limit the the effectiveness of my hits?
- Do I maintain my awareness and pick up on cues which might allow me to move away from potiential bad people before I'm attacked?
- Finally, do I routinely go to high risk areas or deal with high risk people?
On the traditional wheel gun vs the magical plastic wonders of the day... Although I do sometimes carry J frames, if pushed to choose an "anywhere - anytime" handgun it would definately rhyme with GLOCK.
Although wheel guns and 1911s have established their place both in history and my stable, they generally are range guns for me. I will more likely carry one of the modern polymer autos if I want light weight, large capacity, and functional reliability.
Just some thoughts...
Edmo
If any of us could answer that question we would be much more enlightened than the average joe. Most of us can only speculate based on antidotal evidence.
From this we can assume no two self defense encounters are going to be the same. If you can answer some of the following questions you might find your answer(s)...
- How many attackers will there be?
- Will all of the attackers continue their attack once I introduce a gun to the confrontation?
- When and where will the attack occur?
- Will there be others with me or in the line of fire?
- Will it be light or dark during the attack?
- Will I be able to make all of my shots count?
- Do I carry extra ammo and can I quickly reload if necessary?
- Will the ammo I carry function as advertised even through barriers?
- Are the attackers under the influence of drugs which might limit the the effectiveness of my hits?
- Do I maintain my awareness and pick up on cues which might allow me to move away from potiential bad people before I'm attacked?
- Finally, do I routinely go to high risk areas or deal with high risk people?
On the traditional wheel gun vs the magical plastic wonders of the day... Although I do sometimes carry J frames, if pushed to choose an "anywhere - anytime" handgun it would definately rhyme with GLOCK.
Although wheel guns and 1911s have established their place both in history and my stable, they generally are range guns for me. I will more likely carry one of the modern polymer autos if I want light weight, large capacity, and functional reliability.
Just some thoughts...
Edmo
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