Handgun in a parking lot question

[supplier]

Folks, Good Evening everyone:

I just finished reading this tragic post about death of a mother of 2 yo. toddler and such things bother me.

I'm fairly new to guns ( 2.2 years since I bough my first weapon), also having two teenage kids and climbing to my mid 50-s I have a lot to worry about. can we discus several issues please, that I'm not sure about:

1. I do CC 100% of the times I'm out with my kids, until recently I was neglected to CC when I'm alone. But more and more violence and terrorism around us made me to change my mind - for the past two months I've been carrying a handgun all the time.

2. At home, Besides a mid-size safe, that stores several handguns and some emergency ammo, I also bough a bedside safe box (with keypad and bio scanner (un)lock) that holds my FS HD gun all the time. I guess it's not a best practice as with a potential robbery, a thief can carry away that small box with locked gun... I probably should move HD gun into bigger safe, when I'm not around.

3. Another thing I'm confused with, is the handgun in a car. There are times I need to leave my handgun in the car - sometimes briefly (while I need to go to a post office, etc..), sometimes I have to leave my handgun for a quite long time - during work hours I allowed to keep it (by Florida's law) inside my car at the parking lot. Two questions/things bother me:

how to secure a handgun inside a car for 8-9 hours? unloaded? locked in a glove compartment, buy a small metal gun box? Any suggestions are appreciated. Especially any ones which point out to the legal aspect of leaving a gun inside a car, unattended, for a long time - if the car (or just a gun) gets stolen - how to properly secure the gun , so I will not be charge for a negligence??

4. The next question is - I carry gun hot loaded (chambered). in In Florida, the temperature inside the car can easy reach 120-130 degrees F, even during a brief stop. Is there a known situations when a chambered gun self discharged due to a heat/hot weather?

5. And Last but not least - I usually carry 2 fully loaded magazines. how often I have to replace a spring inside the magazine, if it's loaded to its full capacity all the time? I've heard some people remove two rounds from a mag to easy pressure on the spring, but with my Shield or LCP that gives me only from 4 +1 to 6 +1 capacity, which I do not feel comfortable with...

I can probably buy 2 more magazines and keep them empty (or half loaded )and swap them in place of loaded ones from time to time, but how often should I swap magazines?

Thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.

 

[dpsk]

Can't answer all your questions, but I just bought one of these:

Amazon.com: The Club LB200 Personal Vault Security Lock Box: Automotive@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41WSIaHA-GL.@@AMEPARAM@@41WSIaHA-GL

Pretty well made and easily holds compact size pistols (e.g., M&P 9c) plus spare magazine. It's not going to prevent a determined thief with a set of cable cutters from stealing the box, but if someone breaks into your car, it will certainly slow them down.
Find an out of sight place where you can secure it to the vehicle, and I imagine it'll do a good job of preventing the random punk thief from ending up with your pistol if they break in.

As for loading your magazines, just swap out your full magazines on a regular (monthly?) basis and I'm sure the springs will last a long time. If they wear out, they're relatively inexpensive and easy to replace.

 

[SteveFi]

i have a small lock box similar to that - i keep it under the seat & the cable is around the seat frame. will keep the smash & grab types away.

dont worry too much about the temperature - rounds wont cook off at those temperatures. worst case about hot temps is the round might be a little "hotter" pressure wise but if you use factory ammo I wouldnt worry about it - the military uses ammo in the arctic to the hottest desert so as long as you can stand the temperature your ammo will be fine

 

[GerSan69]

Hi supplier, welcome aboard!
I'll take a stab. Not sure what you're asking with #1 and 2... but I guess the best thing to say is always carry, and always secure it the best possible way you can when you put it away at home. Not to disparage your kids, but I absolutely do not trust ANY kids around firearms when there isn't a responsible adult present, and that includes firearms that are secured only minimally, like a trigger lock or something easily broken into, like a desk drawer or a closet. They're always looking to impress a friend, or a friend comes over and wants to see the gun, or they "dare" the kid to bring it out... you get the idea. EVERY kid has a point where they at least consider breaking the rules, so eliminating every possibility is our job. It's so easy to avoid tragedy, but so hard to get over one.
#3: one of those small steel gun boxes that will attach to the seat frame with a cable is a good idea. They're inexpensive, usually $25-35. There are also gun safes made for vehicles that require installation. I don't know how much but I'd assume they're pricey.
Your temperature question: unless the car catches fire, the cartridges won't go off.
Spring question: everyone's got an opinion. Personally, I've never changed a spring in a magazine, and I've never had a problem. That includes duty magazines that stayed loaded for months at a time. And I never swapped mags, either. Now, I'm not a competition shooter that goes through thousands of rounds per year...just a recreational, hundred rounds here and there shooter. Those guys very well might wear out their springs.
Anyway, again, welcome, hope you enjoy the Forum.

 

[Ron AZ]

i have a small lock box similar to that - i keep it under the seat & the cable is around the seat frame. will keep the smash & grab types away.

X2 what Steve said. Mine is an ammo vault Nano 200 also under the driver side seat and cable around the seat frame. I vary but usually leave it loaded, as I am usually going to take it back out of the lockbox as soon as I am back in the car. Size is enough to hold that for my Pro CORE .40 4.25" and a spare mag, although I am not usually carrying that gun.

I am in Phoenix area where summer parked car temps are also unbearable (130 deg). I try not to leave mine in the car long in that heat … more on principle of keeping ammo out of the heat, rather than any knowledge of failures. I've started avoiding businesses with the "no firearms allowed" signs and taking my business elsewhere, so I carry in with me if at all possible.

All of the locks on these small boxes are chintzy. Showed it to a locksmith once. He told me it would only take a big guy with a screwdriver about 30 sec to defeat the lock. So as noted above, it is only a delaying/deterrent tactic.

If someone knows of a gun lock box with a high quality lock, that will be useful info.

Again on principle, I rotate the mags on my HD guns that are sitting for a longer time. Usually do this about 1x/month coinciding with one of my trips to the range. In my HD guns with double stack mags I load 1 in the chamber then the mag to 1 less than full capacity. On my carry guns I don't have the extra mags, so it is what it is if I carry the same one for quite awhile. My concealed carry guns have single stack mags and the mags on the gun in use are stuffed full.

 

[WR Moore]

#2-The HD firearm in a vault is useless to you if you can't get to it in 2 seconds from anywhere in the house. If home invaders can cut you off from it, it's useless.

#3 answered above.

#4 Your car isn't going to get hot enough to fire off a round. There's a Mythbusters segment on cooking a gun until it goes off. Check it out.

#5. S&W advice to LE armorers is to change mag springs and recoil springs (and a couple of other parts) in 5 year/5000 round intervals. Magazines don't experience spring wear from storage, but from loading/unloading cycles. The 5 years would be an extremely conservative replacement interval. I've got magazines in use older than that with no spring issues.

 

[Rpg]

I won't offer advice on storing your handguns. With teenagers, there is no mechanism known to man that will keep them out.

As far as your magazines, you can leave them all loaded for the rest of your life without problem.

 

[AGoyette]

I have 2 girls. The youngest is now 19 years old. They have always been around the guns and we drummed gun safety into them from day one. Talked to the more socially active youngest daughter a couple years ago about our guns and not sharing or talking about them to others. She was horrified that I thought she might brag about us having guns etc. to her friends. I guess we raised them right.

As to the magazine spring question.. we have a couple of 1911's that we used in competition in the '80's and '90's. I have no idea how many rounds have gone through those mags or how many times they have been loaded and unloaded. I brought the old hi cap Para 45 acp out of retirement a few months ago. I finally had to replace the springs on the 16 round mags. I was having feeding issues. Basically rebuilding the mags (new springs, followers and bases) fixed all magazine related issues. Rebuilding the mags and putting in a new firing pin in the gun, and it is once again running great. Hope this helps.

 

[rwsmith]

I won't offer advice on storing your handguns. With teenagers, there is no mechanism known to man that will keep them out.

As far as your magazines, you can leave them all loaded for the rest of your life without problem.

As with the mother who was shot in the store, having kids and teenagers complicates storage, carry and having them in the house. It sounds like the OP has a really good handle on his situation.

 

[Biggfoot44]

As noted , springs don't go bad from being loaded continously , but from compression/ expansion cycles.

In a small handfull of designs , there is an advantage to downloading. It has been well known for decades that Browning HP mags are more reliable downloaded to 12.. I download my AR magazines by two not becaise of any spring issue , but because I wish to have ability to easily fully seat mag with the bolt forewards.

Everything else feel free to load up. Magazine springs are cheap enough to treat them like a radator cap. If you ever have reason to think about one , just replace it.

Even in Fla , a closed car in the sun won't get anywhere near the temp to cook off a round. BUT with large temperature swings , and high humidities , it might be a wise idea to replace your carry ammo more frequently than for average conditions.

 

[one eye joe]

WHILE IN THE MILITARY, I CAME ACROSS FULLY LOADED GI 1911 MAGAZINES THAT WERE IN A BUNKER THAT HAD BEEN ABANDONED FOR OVER 20 YEARS. DESPITE THE NEW ENGLAND CLIMATE OF SEASONAL TEMP EXTREMES, NEITHER THE MAGS NOR THE EXPOSED ROUNDS WERE RUSTED. THE FMJ BULLETS WERE DARK, NOT SHINY. I SCAVENGED THEM UP, AND RELEGATED THEM TO MY PRIVATE STOCKPILE OF AMMO. YEARS AFTER MY DISCHARGE, I BROUGHT THESE MAGS TO THE RANGE, JUST AS I HAD FOUND THEM. THE 3 FULLY LOADED MAGS OF GI BALL AMMO ALL FUNCTIONED FLAWLESSLY. EVERY ROUND FIRED. THESE MAGS MAY HAVE BEEN KOREAN WAR ERA. IN ANY EVENT, I PUT THE MAGS INTO ROTATION FOR REGULAR USE, AND NEVER HAD AN ISSUE WITH THEM. I GAINED A GREAT DEAL OF RESPECT FOR GI .45 ACP, FMJ AMMO, AND GI MAGS. THINKING THAT MODERN MATERIALS AND SPRING TECHNOLOGY PROBABLY EXCEEDS THOSE MAGS IN RELIABILITY, AND DURABILITY, I DON'T BELIEVE LEAVING MAGS LOADED FOR WEEKS, MONTHS, OR EVEN A YEAR OR MORE WOULD POSE A PROBLEM. I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT DO IT, BECAUSE I AM ANAL ABOUT THE READINESS OF MY WEAPONS, BUT I DOUBT THAT ANYONE LESS VIGILANT WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM…….

 

[supplier]

Thank you all! so m any good replies in just few hours. I appreciate it!
Have a great day, everybody.

 

[fbcmrjrtykr]

Supplier, my FS night stand gun stays in a Gunvault inside the drawer that I can open in seconds. That vault is bolted into the drawer. I use a different version of Gunvault with the security strap routed through the seat. In the event my car were stolen, I think my precautions would disprove negligence.


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[scott9mm]

For most of my HD hand guns I use a Gunvault Speedvault SV500 like this: Amazon.com: Gunvault SpeedVault SV500 gun safe: Home Improvement@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41z2DtBiD0L.@@AMEPARAM@@41z2DtBiD0L. I have seen them in the $130 range (shipped) in the past. I have more confidence in my ability to push buttons than in a fingerprint reader so I went with the non-bio model. You can bolt it to the side of a piece of furniture (assuming you have room) making it a bit harder to steal than something bolted to a drawer. But as others have said, nothing short of a real gun safe is really secure against a determined thief. But these small safes should improve child safety and they will delay a thief without slowing you down very much. With multiple HD pistols, I think it's important to standardize; so I keep them all in some sort of safe but ready to use: loaded with a round in the chamber, hammer down (all double action), and safety off.

 

[UncaGrunny]

Only thing I can add to the above is never, ever leave a loaded weapon in your purse (or fanny pack, briefcase, etc) in a public space, and then leave the container anywhere other than physically on your person & inside your immediate frame of sensory awareness.

This rule doesn't always obtain inside a private space that you have complete control over & can prevent access to the weapon by others, but in public this should be both obvious and the "rule zero" for anyone carrying.

This one concept being neglected is what led to that tragedy with the toddler. A fatal & preventable error.

 

[Old cop]

As to your question about loaded mags: I retired in 1997 w/my issued Glock Model 23 and have kept all three mags fully loaded. I don't switch things around and load all mags to full capacity, 13 rounds. The gun is shot a couple of times a year, and at our annual retiree qualification. I've never experienced a problem related to the mags, and the range officer said it's okay to keep the fully loaded all the time.

As to your question about securing a gun in a car, that's never a good idea. If it cannot be avoided do consider some sort of small car safe that secures to the car somehow.

 

[Comrad]

If a woman is carrying concealed in her purse and leaves it somewhere and asks a non licensed person to retrieve it for her would that person now be guilty of illegal possession?
I'm having trouble with the whole carrying in something off the body and the problems, as was seen here that can bring.

 

[Arik]

I don't have kids so I can't answer kid centric questions but modern ammo does not go off inside a hot car.

You don't habe c to replace springs in the mag unless you use them very very often. Springs wear out from use not from compression. There have been 1911 mags that were found loaded from the 40s&w any they still worked fine. Unless you chamber and shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year I wouldn't worry about it

 

[Rastoff]

With teenagers, there is no mechanism known to man that will keep them out.

While I understand the sentiment, this is not really true. Any quality safe will keep teenagers out.

 

[Squarebutt]

The best way to keep kids from snooping is to take them shooting. Ours were raised with guns in the house, and I took them to the range fairly often. The fact that we owned guns was understood to be a family secret, not to be shared with friends. They weren't angels 100% of the time, but they never messed with the guns, and as far as I know, didn't talk to others about them. I received my first .22 at the age of seven, and it and the ammo were kept in my bedroom. Those were the days, my friend.