I couldn't find anything in a search.How did lawman go from the .45 black powder, and other more potent rounds to the .32.this has always puzzled me as a choice for Law Enforcement.And no I would not want to get hit with one,but it does seem under powered for the role of stopping armed criminals.
Question.How did the .32 ever make its way as a Police round ?
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Erich
Member
You'd have to ask New York Police Commissioner Teddy Roosevelt, who is on record as liking big sticks. 
NYPD standardized on the .32 S&W Long under his command - it is a superbly accurate round, FWIW. Maybe that had something to do with it.
Given some of the news stories I see about NYPD shootings involving many dozens of rounds flying past the BG into the crowded city, perhaps that's not a bad consideration.
NYPD standardized on the .32 S&W Long under his command - it is a superbly accurate round, FWIW. Maybe that had something to do with it. Given some of the news stories I see about NYPD shootings involving many dozens of rounds flying past the BG into the crowded city, perhaps that's not a bad consideration.
It was right after they decided that the .22 wasn't powerful enough
I would guess that it had something to do with the idea, at the time, that shooting a policeman was an act so unspeakably heinous, that none but the most depraved scofflaw would even consider it. So the .32, with its mediocre power level and superior accuracy was considered adequate.
Just a guess, mind you.
Larry
Just a guess, mind you.
Larry
Modified
Member
I would suspect that a lawman who was carrying a .45 long colt going to smokeless powder would have selected something like .44 Special, or maybe later a .38 Heavy Duty or .357 Magnum.
The thing is .38 S&W was (and still is in India) a police round, so was .32 S&W. I think in certain places in the past neighborhood beat cops were part of the neighborhood, and they didn't really want to kill any of their neighbors. A .32S&W Long is a pretty good tool for dissuasion, if not a lethal one.
Another thing to keep in mind is that there have been policemen who consider a gun just a tool, and a tool that they want to be as light and light recoiling as possible. A regulation police is a pretty fine choice in that regard.
Our notions of man stopping have changed a bit over the years, with the prevalence of things like Meth and Bath Salts having enough cartridge to stop a man is more important then it once was.
Also, as just a side note. I think as a pocket gun the little 32 hand ejectors are a wonderful little pocket gun, and had they figured out how to safely chamber them in .38SPL back in 1903 the would have completely dominated the carry gun market forever. Owning and carrying one of those may also have influenced some lawmen.
The thing is .38 S&W was (and still is in India) a police round, so was .32 S&W. I think in certain places in the past neighborhood beat cops were part of the neighborhood, and they didn't really want to kill any of their neighbors. A .32S&W Long is a pretty good tool for dissuasion, if not a lethal one.
Another thing to keep in mind is that there have been policemen who consider a gun just a tool, and a tool that they want to be as light and light recoiling as possible. A regulation police is a pretty fine choice in that regard.
Our notions of man stopping have changed a bit over the years, with the prevalence of things like Meth and Bath Salts having enough cartridge to stop a man is more important then it once was.
Also, as just a side note. I think as a pocket gun the little 32 hand ejectors are a wonderful little pocket gun, and had they figured out how to safely chamber them in .38SPL back in 1903 the would have completely dominated the carry gun market forever. Owning and carrying one of those may also have influenced some lawmen.
italiansport
Member
New York City at the time of the Colt Police Positive and the 32S&W Long was far different then it is today. From what I understand; a pistol was considered more of a badge of authority like a night stick that a weapon.
Jim
Jim
rburg
Member
You view things from the current perspective. Take a step back and move your frame of reference to the late 1800s. And then consider the ambulances and emergency rooms at the time. Simply put, getting shot with anything would often be fatal. Medicine from the time wasn't any more advanced than gun technology. If the gun lacked stopping power as we define it today, it would still kill you pretty effectively. Maybe just not as fast or painlessly.
So next time you pick up a 32 long, look at the soft lead bullet with the yucky grease and wax. Think about some fool carrying it in his lint filled pocket, the one that didn't get washed every wearing as is the custom today. That stuff got carried along into the wound channel. It then festered and the medicine you were offered was opium or alcohol. You got an infection and then died over a week or so, usually with significant pain. Good times.
So next time you pick up a 32 long, look at the soft lead bullet with the yucky grease and wax. Think about some fool carrying it in his lint filled pocket, the one that didn't get washed every wearing as is the custom today. That stuff got carried along into the wound channel. It then festered and the medicine you were offered was opium or alcohol. You got an infection and then died over a week or so, usually with significant pain. Good times.
KarmannGhia
Member
Remember, people were not as "thick" back then. Today's ammo is required to penetrate more fat and muscle.
BigCityChief
Member
You'd have to ask New York Police Commissioner Teddy Roosevelt, who is on record as liking big sticks.
Given some of the news stories I see about NYPD shootings involving many dozens of rounds flying past the BG into the crowded city, perhaps that's not a bad consideration.
Just as a point of information, Roosevelt never actually held the title of "Police Commissioner" - the title bestowed on those appointed as Head of Agency by the NYC Mayor. He was indeed a "Commissioner," while serving as a member of the Police Commission, an oversight board of 3 members during his tenure.
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Erich
Member
Well explained, my friend. 
.32s and & .38s seemed to do the job quite well until Elmer Keith and Jeff Cooper told us how puny they were.
After that, if it wasn't a magnum or started with a 4, poor old cops didn't have a chance.
Of course the size of Americans has grown along with the caliber of the rounds used in hand guns too.
After that, if it wasn't a magnum or started with a 4, poor old cops didn't have a chance.
Of course the size of Americans has grown along with the caliber of the rounds used in hand guns too.
I do think the guns were very much a symbol of authority at the time and that the idea of harming a police officer was fairly heinous. But "new" is also important - new, reliable double action handguns in this caliber could easily have appeared to be an up to date great idea.
The reverse of all of this is also possibly true - the old guns were massive and heavy and carrying a less conspicuous, lighter gun might have seemed like a good idea.
I am totally uncertain about what they knew in terms of stopping power in the civilian world at the time; the military knew.....
***GRJ***
The reverse of all of this is also possibly true - the old guns were massive and heavy and carrying a less conspicuous, lighter gun might have seemed like a good idea.
I am totally uncertain about what they knew in terms of stopping power in the civilian world at the time; the military knew.....
***GRJ***
I'm not sure.....
The .32 did in a lot of people, some famous, back then. I'm not sure what the velocity of the old .32 rounds were, but they seemed to work. They may have been as effective as the short .38 pistol cartridges at the time.
The .32 did in a lot of people, some famous, back then. I'm not sure what the velocity of the old .32 rounds were, but they seemed to work. They may have been as effective as the short .38 pistol cartridges at the time.
My great great uncle carried an American Bulldog in .32 rim fire.He worked as security on the railroads at the turn of the century.I inherited that gun several years ago ,and have sinced past it on to another family member.
No need to shoot through car bodies or windshields......... back in the day.....
remember many carried .22 rimfires in the........ not so Civil War.
A gentleman carried a .25 Colt pocket auto.....................up until WWII.
Officers "walked" a beat....... try that with a Heavy Duty.......
No one wants to get shot....................
remember many carried .22 rimfires in the........ not so Civil War.
A gentleman carried a .25 Colt pocket auto.....................up until WWII.
Officers "walked" a beat....... try that with a Heavy Duty.......
No one wants to get shot....................
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Autococker07
US Veteran
I wonder if they had "45 colt is way to heavy and slow.... 32 is lighter and faster, and that is always better" discussions like we had in the sixties (M14-to-M16) and eighties (45ACP-to-9mm).... I know i would rather carry it on a beat, and I am sure overall accuracy increased with the recoil reduction, but I bet the guys left the 32's at home when they went after Bonnie and Clyde south of Gibsland...
cmichini
Member
Parents typically raised people back then, not the slew of rabid animals pumped out by bad parents in modern times.
Hence the lack of a need for heavy firepower.
Hence the lack of a need for heavy firepower.
it wasn't just the U S, in Europe the .32 acp was pretty much a standard police load.
Jim Watson
Member
TR standardized the NYPD on the Colt New Police .32 in 1896.
Same year the S&W .32 Hand Ejector came out. I think it was several years before Colt adopted the .32 S&W Long as the .32 NP. If so, caliber would have been .32 Long Colt.
In the days before antibiotics, a .32 might not have had much "stopping power" but it was a killer, especially for a criminal who might be reluctant to go to a hospital.
Same year the S&W .32 Hand Ejector came out. I think it was several years before Colt adopted the .32 S&W Long as the .32 NP. If so, caliber would have been .32 Long Colt.
In the days before antibiotics, a .32 might not have had much "stopping power" but it was a killer, especially for a criminal who might be reluctant to go to a hospital.
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cmj8591
Member
Police in those days were not too far removed from the unarmed English bobbies who they had descended from. The handgun was an after thought after the night stick and the sap or black jack. In fact, most city cops didn't even use a holster. When they carried a gun, they usually just stuck it in their pocket. Also, in the urban areas, most of the population was very poor immigrants who couldn't afford to own a gun. There really wasn't a lot of gun crime in those days. Police shootings were very rare. (Remember, I'm talking about law enforcement in the urban areas at the turn on the century not the wild west, which was a different story.) Carrying a handgun didn't really become commonplace for cops until after WW II. Even then, it was still a secondary tool. You were more apt to get beaten with a night stick than shot by a policeman. The subject of stopping power for police handguns really wasn't an issue until several high profile police shoot outs in the 60's that didn't go very well for the cops. The concept of police firearms and training has really only evolved over the past 20 or so years.
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