Starting out on new caliber - process

[RegisG]

I have a new M&P Shield 9mm. And am just getting back into reloading (after many years). I have a Dillon 550b and am curious about how to approach new loads. I have 3 powders (Power Pistol, Unique, & Bullseye). And I have 115 jacketed RN, and 124 jacketed HP. Swapping powders on a progressive 550 is not quick. So, what is a good process to workup loads. I'm sure that this press will be great once I have a load for a few hundred rounds but, how to get there...

Appreciate any experiences or tips

Regis

 

[fredj338]

When doing load dev on my 550, I throw an average midrange charge & then work it up in 1/10gr increments, no more than 5rds each. This means dumping your charges onto your scale & trickling up your 1/10gr, then back into the case & back into the press.
Alternate way is to size & prime, then us the empty measure to flare, then charge all your cases off the press, then continue loading as normal from stn #3.

 

[Engineer1911]

Find your reloading manual, select a mid-range load for each powder, and load 10 rounds that are 0.5 GRAINS or 5% less than the mid-range load. Increase powder charge to mid-range load and make 10 rounds, increase powder charge 0.5 GRAINS above mid-range and load 10 rounds.

Repeat this process with other powders and bullets. You will have a starting point to see what your pistol likes. You can probably load 115 gr or 124 gr bullets with the same powder charge. An analysis of load data will let you chose a load that may be "light" with 115 gr and "above mid-range" with 124 gr bullets.

I only load 9 MM with AA #2 and a 130 gr cast lead bullet. I drilled out the mold so the lube groove was not so large. It did not make sense to put more lube in a 9 mm than a 357 mag bullet.

 

[scooter123]

First up you need to do some Capability Studies to determine if your chosen powder will meter consistently enough for use in a Progressive Press. Having already done a 50 pc. study with Unique in a RCBS Competition Powder Measure I can tell you that 1 in 200 throws will be as much as 1/2 grain from your desired weight. With the small case volume of the 9mm and the restricted weight range that goes with smaller cases I would rule out Unique as a potential powder.

Yeah, someone will post they've been using Unique for years with no problems. I can guarantee that anyone making that statement hasn't actually "done the Math" and sooner or later they'll pay for that failure by experiencing a case head failure first hand. Because they have been loading some rounds with an overcharge. The ONLY safe way to load with Unique in the 9mm is by hand weighing every single charge.

Not having any experience with Bullseye or Power Pistol I cannot give you any feedback on how well these powders meter.

BTW, since it's been mentioned I can say that Accurate #2, #5, #7, and #9 all meter wonderfully and statistically the maximum deviation in 200 charges will be 1/10 grain. 97 of 100 charges thrown with any of the Accurate powders will also be within 0.03 grain. Yeah, I am a real fan of the Accurate Handgun powders and any time I see a bottle for sale I buy it.

Once I've chosen a powder I will then look at multiple sources for the bullet I'll be using or a similar design of the same weight. The sources I prefer to work with are Hornady, Nosler, Speer, and Lee. I'll also look at the data provided by the powder manufacturer but in my experience that data can in many cases be a bit "hot". Being a bit conservative I'll work up a load that is in line with the data provided by 2 or 3 sources that pretty much match.

For the starting point I'll start at about 1/3 of the total range over the minimum charge. I'll also run test batches of at least 10 rounds and in some cases as many as 25 rounds. Because I've learned from experience that 5 rounds is not enough for a good evaluation. Depending on the total range I'll work up in increments of 1/10 to 3/10 grains.

Finally, my goals for any load are 1) Function, 2) Accuracy, and 3) Cleanliness, in that order. Function is first because there is no point in using ammunition that won't cycle a Semi Auto properly or produces so much muzzle blast and flash that it's potentially harmful. Accuracy is second because we all want to be able to hit our target. As for cleanliness, as I have learned you sometimes have to put up with a bit of extra crud if that is what it takes to build a good accurate load.

 

[Bugkiller99]

Though I have not used it, (can't use what you can't find) power pistol has a reputation as THE 9mm powder. I would start with it, just based on reputation.
You may want to invest in a SS or turrent press for load development. You can always find a use for a SS press.

 

[Magload]

I wish digital scales would read out to .01 grs as you can weigh a charge that shows 5.4 and it is really 5.49 almost a .1 of a grain off. The only way I can come close is to drop 5 charges and average. That is a good way to set up the powder drop but still you don't know what each charge is. If I want 5.6 I will drop 5.5 weigh it and trickle it slowly to just get the scale to turn to 5.6. I think I might be over thinking this and should just revert back to my 12ga loading days. What the MEC bar throws is what you get.

 

[fredj338]

I wish digital scales would read out to .01 grs as you can weigh a charge that shows 5.4 and it is really 5.49 almost a .1 of a grain off. The only way I can come close is to drop 5 charges and average. That is a good way to set up the powder drop but still you don't know what each charge is. If I want 5.6 I will drop 5.5 weigh it and trickle it slowly to just get the scale to turn to 5.6. I think I might be over thinking this and should just revert back to my 12ga loading days. What the MEC bar throws is what you get.

Even If you could weigh the powder down to 0.005gr, it would have little affect on the load. Case volume Will vary greater than 1/10gr by far. No, 1/10gr accuracy is fine, even for precision rifle.

 

[RegisG]

I sure appreciate all the input. I'll start working my way through.

Thanks again,
Regis

 

[Rule3]

Power Pistol and Unique are your better choices for the 9mm.


I myself would not bother with Bullseye in your quest as it is to fast a power for the 9mm. Yes, I know folks use it but there are better powders. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Twoboxer]

If you are eventually going to load on your Progressive, START with the powder that meters best there. Test them yourself to find out.

If you want a hotter load, take the max charge, reduce by 5%, and work up to max from there. If you want a slow/soft load, reduce by 10% and work up to -5% of max or slightly higher..

Determine your interval . . . it will be either 0.1gr or 0.2gr (though a 0.1gr interval may not be all that useful depending on how closely your PM could hold in your test).

Clean, size, prime, and bell 5 cases per charge load on your Progressive, hand measure each charge as closely as you can or have the patience for, and seat as well as close the bell on your Progressive.

At the range shoot 5 factory rounds from a rest as a benchmark. Then shoot your handloaded ammo in 5-shot groups at a minimum distance of 10 yards. You are monitoring for pistol function, recoil and case ejection (vs the factory ammo you previously shot), accuracy (after all have been fired), and cleanliness. To really judge cleanliness, bring a bore snake or something with you and clean after each group.

Choose the charge you like best Rinse/repeat with the other powders as you wish/need.

Just a suggestion trying to cover all the bases. Obviously you can make more rounds per charge weight if you wish . . . but its really not necessary. Later you are going to run ~50 on your progressive, and see if you are still happy with your choice.

GLHF and stay safe.

 

[Engineer1911]

First up you need to do some Capability Studies to determine if your chosen powder will meter consistently enough for use in a Progressive Press................

QUOTE]

Over the last 30+ years, the satisfied customers that have bought thousands of Dillon presses prove that the Dillon powder measure is close enough for 98.23% of the people reloading ammunition with Dillon equipment.

Regis wanted suggestions on getting started reloading 9 MM ammo, not a summary on statistics. We know a Dillon powder is capable for 98.23% of individual reloaders. I personally have left several thousand dead prairie dogs to prove its accuracy.

 

[scooter123]

Regis wanted suggestions on getting started reloading 9 MM ammo, not a summary on statistics. We know a Dillon powder is capable for 98.23% of individual reloaders. I personally have left several thousand dead prairie dogs to prove its accuracy.

I'll bet that you've also missed a goodly number of prairie dogs over the years and some of those misses may have been the result of a less than optimum powder charge.

If you are loading something like the 204 Ruger or 223 with a 25 grain powder charge a varaition of 1/2 grain won't mean didly unless it's near a maximum charge. The worst effect will just be a loss in accuracy with some rounds. However, if you are loading a small volume case such as the 9mm the total available safe loading range may only be 7/10 grains. So, if you have a +/- variation of 1/2 grain some very simple math means that the total stackup exceeds the safe loading range. Means that some charges will either be over or under charges. I happen to believe that is that someone choosing to load a particular caliber should know before he commits to loading with that powder on a progressive press or even on a single stage using a powder measure to charge cases in trays of 50.

I use Longshot rather frequently to load my SD Practice ammunition in the 40 S&W and because I KNOW that it meters poorly I hand weigh every single charge. Because they are near maximum charges and I just don't think it would be safe to throw a charge 1/2 grain heavy and then shoot it in one of my pistols.

Today you can purchase a scientific calculator for under 20 bucks that features Statistical functions. It also doesn't take that long to throw 50 charges, weigh them, and record the results. Granted, scales with 1/100 grain resolution aren't common and do cost many thousands of dollars but with practice someone can learn to "read" a simple beam scale to a 0.05 grain resolution and if they spend enough time loading with Varget they can learn how to read a simple beam scale down to the 0.025 grain level. So, even simple tools that are less than ideal can be used to do a Capability Study that is actually accurate. In addition I can guarantee that anyone who throws 50 charges with a poor metering powder such as Unique WILL see a powder charge far enough off that they will say "whoa, how did that happen".

I didn't come to this conclusion out of a fondness for Statistics, I came to this conclusion from actual, real world, EXPERIENCE. As a result I have a list of powders that meter well and another list of powders that don't and whenever it's possible I avoid loading with the poor metering powders. However, some powders such as Varget or Longshot can be such a perfect fit for a specific application that they become almost a Must Use or it may be all that is left in the locker. When that happens I slow it down and hand weigh each charge until I can get back to a better metering alternate.

PS; since you are a Prairie Dog hunter I can also tell you that with Varget in the 223 a variation of just 3/10 grain will result in a real, measurable loss in accuracy. Because I've spent a fair amount of time working up loads for the 223 with Varget.

 

[Magload]

Scooter I am with you on this one. It explains why when I my shooting a scoped pistol over a good bench rest I can get three shoots in a tight group and maybe one high and maybe one low. For my type of shooting I am about to give up dropping powder on my 550. I am not shooting SD at 10yds or less I want tight groups.

For the OP if you are like me load dev will be the best part of reloading and shooting. Everyone has given you good info now you can work out what load your gun likes because there is a difference between guns. We can all say this is my favorite load but your gun might not like it. It may not cycle right or it may shoot sloppy groups. Even if you are already a crack shot there is nothing wrong with bench resting a pistol or revolver when you want to know how good a load is.

 

[fredj338]

Power Pistol and Unique are your better choices for the 9mm.
I myself would not bother with Bullseye in your quest as it is to fast a power for the 9mm. Yes, I know folks use it but there are better powders. Just my 2 cents.

I'm not a fan of BE, but it & other fast burning powders are fine for 9mm minor loads. Slower powders are better for upper midrange to full power loads.
Back to this accurate charge wt thing. No one will dispute 1/2gr accuracy in a scale or measure is krap, but even with stick powders, I get better than that with Dillon or RCBS measures. Any scale that won't hold 1/10gr should be tossed. 1/2gr, my bathroom scale might be that far off, kidding! You get the idea though. Powder accuracy is critical to safety & helps accuracy, but trying to get better than 1/10gr accuracy is pointless, unless you are sorting you brass by internal wt & weighing each bullet.

 

[Magload]

You aren't sorting you brass by head stamp measuring length and weighting each case? You can also run each bullet across the scale and then the mic. OCD maybe that is why I am only getting 80 rounds a hour out of my 550.

 

[Rule3]

You aren't sorting you brass by head stamp measuring length and weighting each case? You can also run each bullet across the scale and then the mic. OCD maybe that is why I am only getting 80 rounds a hour out of my 550.

Heck I buy new brass, trim it, uniform each primer pocket every time I load 9mm.

 

[Engineer1911]

Practical Reloading

Pick up all the range brass laying about regardless of who or what shot it. Sort brass by caliber, tumble to get the thick crud off (who cares about surgically clean brass), run the brass through the Dillon 550 at 500 rounds per hour. Reloading rate is limited by primer tubes.

Go to the range and enjoy shooting at your chosen targets. With a 25 mph, variable direction wind and a target at 300 to 500 yards Match Ammo has no meaning. The wind can push the bullet 2 FEET between shots.

We need to agree to disagree. In my opinion, match ammo loaded in meticulous prepped brass with hand weighed bullets, cases, and powder charges is a TOTAL WASTE of valuable reloading time. If you don't hit the target the first time, chamber another round and shoot again.

I kill far more prairie dogs (as a slob shooter / reloader) Than my meticulous buddy who is constantly worried about the most accurate ammo. I keep asking him, "Did you come here to shoot or complain?" I know I came to shoot. I have pre-Obama primers, powder, and bullets to shoot. I'm planning on dying broke, out of ammo, out of components, and a safe full of worn out guns.

Now stop annoying me with this statistical stuff. Some time in my long ago past I had / was Registered Professional Engineer, Certified Manufacturing Engineer, Certified Quality Engineer, Senior Member American Society of Mechanical Engineers, Certified Energy Engineer, and Senior Safety Engineer. I want to make ammo and go shoot something -- time is precious to me and ammo ain't.

EDIT: Don't irritate the old guys after cheap adult beverages. You won't like the answer.

 

[Abflyboy]

Over the last 30+ years, the satisfied customers that have bought thousands of Dillon presses prove that the Dillon powder measure is close enough for 98.23% of the people reloading ammunition with Dillon equipment.

Very satisfied Dillon customer here. I think many who experience consistent, large variations in their powder throws have never operated a Dillon 550 or 650. It sure is a treat.

So far, loading 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .223 Rem, on my Dillon 650XL, once it's all up and moving, the largest variation I have noted is 0.1 grain. Many different powders, many thousands of each caliber loaded.

Back to OP's question, I would run Power Pistol for your 9mm. Bullseye will meter perfectly in your Dillon but you will get better performance with PP.

 

[Twoboxer]

. . . Over the last 30+ years, the satisfied customers that have bought thousands of Dillon presses prove that the Dillon powder measure is close enough for 98.23% of the people reloading ammunition with Dillon equipment. . . .

This says absolutely nothing about the accuracy of his powder measure, and less with any specific powder.

 

[Engineer1911]

This says absolutely nothing about the accuracy of his powder measure, and less with any specific powder.

Your statement is correct, Dillon powder measures are close enough, and you are one of the 1.77% who need perfection. Please don't try to inflict "perfection" on the 98.23% of us that are very happy and content with "close enough".

I have not tried IMR 4350 in a Dillon powder measure. Thick, extruded powder might be a problem.